JR 137

Thanks. You're absolutely right. I should have stuck with Shureido. I lived in the UK until recently and I always used to deal direct with Shureido in Okinawa. Unfortunately lead times seem to have got longer and longer. Hence my reason for trying something different. I also had to adjust the length of my pants on the Shrueido Gi's too, which was a pain. But I did like the Gi overall. I’ve never owned a gi that I didn’t need to shorten the legs. Being short and round does that to me As far as I know, Shureido gis are handmade, thus the lead times. Gotta take the good with the bad.

Sorry to hear about all of this. I guess when you find something you really like, you stick with it rather than trying to change it up. I’ve had nothing but great dealings with Shureido USA, so I’ll continue to do business with them until that changes. I was ordering my stuff from a company who shall remain nameless, and they messed up 3 orders in a row before I stopped buying anything from them. The few dollars cheaper they were didn’t justify the hassle. And they certainly weren’t selling anything I couldn’t get elsewhere.

I could not agree with you anymore Sensei8 but unfortunately this is the way of the world. When you figure out how to change the mindset of 99% of the schools out there let me know. Until then I think you and all of us are stuck with it. However that does not mean you must fall into this trap nor practice it within your own Dojo. Solid post!! Changing the mindset of 99% is a far fetched desire of mine, true enough. Not impossible; not practical, either of me. Therefore, change starts with one dojo, and then with another dojo, and then again with another; there must be a start, a model to follow. However, many practitioners love the pageantry that comes with any MA celebration; their 5 minutes of fame. They love that a fuss is made over them, and once that apple has been bitten, the fall occurs like an explosion. So, there's the start. Someone...some dojo has to start the change. If it's meant to be, then it's meant to be. That's why my dojo and our Hombu have taken the necessary steps to end the pageantry immediately, and not in a weening manner, but cold turkey. One, the training becomes the focus. Two, unnecessary expenses are curbed, and those expenses once used for the pageantry, are now being used for the betterment of the students; more and better training equipment, and so on and so forth. Those of us within the Shindokan circle who've been around for quite some time were mildly shocked. Why? It was new, and not expected. Depending on the event, there was more of a shock. For example, our Annual Testing Cycle at the Hombu, ONCE held a huge celebration to honor all, and not just those who had earned a new promotion. I mean, imagine the most spectacle thing you can dream of, well, that, and then some more, was what our Award Dinner was like...in the neighborhood of $9K; no stone was not turned!! A pageantry...an unnecessary expenditure on any P&L...and that was for just that event. The Hombu HAD a department that dealt strictly with pageantry stuff; annual expenditures in the neighborhood of $110K...GIVE ME A BREAK!! But that was what Soke wanted, and by God, that's what he got; the apple didn't have to fall far to Dai-Soke, who just followed suit. Not all Shindokan dojo within the SKKA network followed suit. That's fine! The Hombu doesn't interfere with internal dojo politics, and what they do is up to them. But I run the Kyuodan Dojo and the Shindokan Hombu!! I did what I felt was needed, and I did it without permission; one of my small perks of being Kaicho. I informed everyone that this is how it is, and if they didn't like it, they're free to go elsewhere. But here at the Hombu, we train!! Student gets promoted, cool!! He/she will get their new promotion at the next class without the pageantry...and before class...behind close doors in my office or in the CI's office at the Hombu with one witness. Those who receive promotions from the Annual Testing Cycle at the Hombu, and because of the amount of testing candidates, those promotions will be mailed to the respective dojo's that they attend. How those dojo's hand out promotions is up to them. Has anyone voiced a complaint to the Hombu or at my dojo?? Nope, not outwardly, just raised eyebrows. I can only control that which is mine to do so!! One dojo at a time!! I’m trying to wrap my head around this... Your honbu had a $9k ceremony every time black belts were promoted? Like a sit down dinner/buffet, DJ, etc. stuff like that? When I was promoted to shodan, my sensei tied my new belt around my waist, shook my hand, said congratulations, had a nice sentence or two to say about me, and I took my place back in line. My current dojo does the same at kyu testing. As far as I know, dan promotion is handled pretty much the same way, only the test is at honbu under Kaicho Nakamura. I guess I missed out on my party when I earned my shodan back in the day. Maybe I’ll convince my current CI to have one for me when I earn it again

I have the same issue too. I could technically get a bag stand into my basement, just not where I could have enough room to actually hit the bag. If I hung the bag from the beams, the top of the bag would be at eye level. I even went as far as making a model of a bag out of sleeping bags and hanging it to be 100% sure it wouldn’t work. I bought the BOB XL. No regrets. An Outslayer Muay Thai bag would’ve been better, but not in my house. It’s a compromise like everything else; I wanted a Porsche Cayman S, but everything dictated buying a Toyota Highlander instead. When I buy a home, one of my priorities will be a Muay Thai bag. When that happens, I’ll have that AND my BOB XL

I have. I'm not sure that would work with the layout of my basement. Our ceilings are about 6 and a half feet tall where there is no plumbing, boiler pipes or electrical. I'm also nervous about drilling into the floor. Alternatively, websites like Title.com or Ringside.com have some alternative heavy bag hangers that you can use that I believe don't involve screwing in. Somehow I missed part of that... You don’t need to screw anything into the floor. I’ve never seen a bag stand that screws into the floor. Something like this (I’m not endorsing this on in particular)... https://m.dickssportinggoods.com/p/century-heavy-bag-stand-16cenucntryhvybgssac/16cenucntryhvybgssac No screwing to anything (no pun intended). You’d need to buy a few weight plates to keep it from moving. The weights go on the pegs on the legs and the back. Or sandbags.

I don’t know if I’ve ever really lost faith in the MA. I’ve loved every second of it, even the ridiculously frustrating days where my hands move so slow that I get hit 5 times before completing a single punch or my feet feel nailed to the ground, or I butcher every kata and other standardized technique that night. What reconfirms my faith is, or better yet my love for, the MA is when I’m not able to get to the dojo as often as I want to (more accurately need to). There’s weeks when I can’t go due to work and/or family commitments. When I can’t go routinely, I get moody and agitated far easier. It’s my biggest stress relief. When I’m at the dojo, the outside world ceases to exist for that hour and a half or so. As a husband, father, son, brother, uncle, and an employee, I feel like there’s no time left for me. Getting pulled in all there different directions is a challenge. The only thing that keeps me from getting pulled too far is karate. Twice a week, I’m doing exactly what I want to do. And it’s for me. It’s genuinely the only thing I purely do for myself. My wife used to give me an attitude about it every now and then when it wasn’t convenient for her. Once she truly saw the effect being away from it has on me, she’s never complained since. It kind of borders on the line of addiction. So long as I don’t become Todd and leave my family behind to follow Master Ken, it’s a good addiction. So long as I know when it’s genuinely appropriate to miss class, it’s a good addiction. Being away from it confirms my faith.

Welcome to the forum. Please tell us a little about yourself.

Maybe 6'6" in the tallest spots. Those spots aren't necessarily ideal for a bag stand, either. For giggles, you may want to go to a local sporting goods store and measure the height of a bag stand. Make sure you include the bolt that sticks up. You might be able to get one in. Maybe. I know, I seem like I’m dwelling on this. As a guy who’s hit freestanding and good hanging bags, hanging bags easily win.

There’s no best style, only best styles for individuals. I believe Shotokai is a Shotokan substyle or offshoot. Either way, meet the teacher and students and see if it’s the right place for you. Another way to look at it... Let’s say Shotokai is undesputably the best MA style out there. What if regardless of that, the teacher was awful and the students were all Power Ranger and Ninja Turtle wannabe kids, and they had a dojo clown that came out to confetti and music every hour. Now assuming that’s the opposite of what you’re looking for, do you think you’re going to get the most out of your time there? Wouldn’t an “inferior” art being taught by a great teacher and a dojo full of adults who work their butts off be a better use of your time? Unless it’s some crazy art that’s completely built on idiocy, the style is far less important than who’s teaching it, how it’s being taught, and who’s training with you.

Genetics plays a huge part in it too. No matter how diligently and how scientific you get into the best methods to increase flexibility, you’re going to hit a wall. Muscles and tendons are only so long and elastic. The anatomical shape of joints will determine its ultimate range of motion, regardless of how much your muscles are capable of stretching. No two people’s anatomy is going to be exactly alike. Then there’s posture and other lifestyle stuff. Sitting in a chair at a computer for 8 hours a day is going take its toll and undo a lot of gains you’d ultimately make. My father bent down under a hood of a car working on an engine for a few hours every day throws off his posture. Our bodies adapt to the demands we put on them most, regardless of if they’re adaptations we want to not. Physical therapists have seen work related conditions since physical therapy became a thing - housemaid’s knees (prepatellar bursitis), thoracic outlet syndrome (people having circulatory and nerve issues) due to rounding of the shoulders at a typewriter/keyboard, etc. I’ve recently seen what’s now being called “tech neck” - people’s head and neck slumping forward due to smartphone screen time. The list of stuff caused by work and lifestyle is endless. Then I hear about how people get old and their bodies start to deteriorate

What? Does that ever happen? I've never heard of or witnessed a beginner being expected to spar before they're ready. Never. That's not to say it doesn't happen. I've never known it or heard of it. Is that something that happens in the US? Quite apart from it being morally wrong to ask a new starter to spare before they're ready, it would also be dangerous not just for the new starter, but for the other students. What if the new kid is both completely mental and extremely tough? Are there really instructors out there that would take that risk before getting to know and trust the new starter? Then there's the civil liability. The new person is effectively a guest. Are are there any insurance companies out there that are happy to cover clubs that throw visitors to the wolves? Unfortunately it still happens, but hopefully very, very rarely. That was the norm when my former and current teacher started. It wasn’t the norm, it it was still around when I first started in ‘94. I sparred my first night. Both of them shake their heads and say “yeah, we don’t do that anymore.” Too many hard lessons learned. It’s an extreme example, and highly unlikely the OP will be subjected to it. In fact, I really hesitated to mention it at all. My main point was to watch and see what’s going on before jumping in. What if he works out with them, then realizes they’re a bare knuckle/full contact school? Even if he’s not allowed to spar that night or until he’s genuinely ready, what if he wants no part of that type of sparring? He’s spent the night working out in a dojo he’ll never join. What if he starts working out with them, then they break out into a chi ball no-touch knockout session? There’s an hour of his life he’ll never get back. Another extreme example. My main realistic point is watch what’s going on before you get on the floor.

Flexibility will enhance your skills, not give you skills. Same can be said for every other aspect of athletic performance - endurance, strength, balance, etc. Some people overdo an aspect of physical fitness and think that’s going to make them a fighter. The guy who can bench press 300+ lbs isn’t going to be a better fighter than every person who can’t. The marathon runner isn’t going to get into the change and win a championship because he’s in great shape. The yoga teacher who can put himself into a pretzel-like pose won’t beat anyone up because he can do that. Why do anything other than skill development? Cardiovascular endurance won’t do much for you in a true SD situation, seeing as how those encounter typically last for seconds rather than minutes. Muscular strength won’t do much for you if you don’t know how, when and where to hit someone, and won’t keep you from getting hit. But we know why we do all of them, or at least why we should. Flexibility has several benefits. Forget about doing splits or kicking someone in the head. A stiff and inflexible person doesn’t move like someone who’s flexibility isn’t called into question. My flexibility is awful; getting my leg up high enough to kick someone in the ribs is a struggle when I’m cold, and when I’m doing line drills. If I could easily lift my leg up and smack someone in the face with my foot, my roundhouse to their thighs in an actual encounter is going to be significantly faster and effortless. Due to my lack of flexibility in other areas of my body like my back, I’ve got to compensate when kicking. I’ve got to lean away further to get my kick up, I’ve got to overly rotate by body to hit my target. Those things and more rob me of power. They also put me off balance. That lack of flexibility keeps me from throwing kicks, even thigh height and below kicks, smoothly in combination with punches and other kicks. If I was more flexible, I could say jab-cross-roundhouse to the thighs-cross-hook far easier. I could fake a high kick and go low, or vice-versa easier. I’d be a far better fighter, even if I wasn’t kicking at all, if I was more flexible. Forget about striking... grapplers need flexibility too. A stiff and tight wrestler won’t throw as easily, wont escape as easily, won’t get out of holds as easily, etc. My wrestling and coaching wrestling experience taught me this way too many times. Looking at judo, jujitsu and the like, and I don’t see any difference in this regard. Flexibility is like cardio endurance and muscular strength - no one ever thought they had too much of it. Pretty much everyone has routinely thought they didn’t have enough of all of those things. Taking MA out of the equation, and my lack of flexibility rears it’s ugly head every now and then during simple things in daily life. There’s a lot of things that would take so much less effort if I was just a little more flexible.

Video is an invaluable tool. Mirrors in the dojo don’t show nearly as much as video does. Watching yourself on video is one of the most effective ways of seeing your own flaws. My previous sensei used to video the students who were competing during appropriate class sessions. All the corrections, and then some, could easily and indisputably be seen by the student. I’ve used video at home while hitting the bag. If I get the angle right, it shows me what I need to see. It’s helped me correct quite a few things, small and large - I was dropping my hand below my waist while throwing hooks, my eyes would always shut on impact, I was leaning too far forward, etc. Video made those things obvious to me, and I drill while consciously trying to correct them. Video has s downside too. With modern technology, people start posting stuff they shouldn’t. I’m not talking about outright and intentionally malicious stuff, but stuff that takes away from what’s going on. Our organization has had issues in the past with people videoing themselves and posting it. Dan and kyu testing isn’t something that our heads want out there. They’ve got nothing to hide, but it takes away from the testing aspect. Part of it is not knowing what to expect and rising to the occasion. If it’s all there for everyone and anyone to see, that goes by the wayside. It’s not really much different from an academic student knowing what’s going to be on their test in a sense. Our Kaicho made videos for students and teachers to use as a reference. He regretted it. There were instances of students learning from them rather than using them as reference. For instance, a student would promote today, then tomorrow somehow know the next kata that was supposed to be taught for the new rank. Then students started correcting him during class. They’d take something out of context and say “but the video shows it this way.” Reportedly, the final straw came when a student told our Kaicho “the guy in the video said it’s done like this” during dan testing. I’m not sure if it was Kaicho or someone else who asked that student “do you know who ‘the guy in the video’ actually is?” That was pretty much near when they ran out of videos for sale, so they didn’t have any more copies made. Then there’s people making videos, doing things incorrectly or worse, and posting them on social media. Kind of hard to protect your organization’s credibility and reputation and control your “brand image” when it’s a free-for-all. No one that I know of has been formally reprimanded for posting stuff, but there have been many who’ve been asked to remove stuff. As far as I know, most of it was just innocent stuff that wasn’t any catastrophe. It’s been along the lines of ‘we’d appreciate it if you removed it for these reasons.’ The organization isn’t some tyrannical organization that doesn’t allow anything; there’s appropriate times and places for everything. They allow people to take and post pictures and video of stuff, and when people are doing so they ask them to be responsible with it.

Yup. Watch before you join in on it. What if they go through the warmups, basics and some drills, and everything is all fine and good, it then comes the sparring and you’re expected to spar bare knuckle when you didn’t know this was how they do things nor wanted a bare knuckle school? Chances are very good that that wouldn’t happen; it’s an extreme point to my argument. However, Kyokushin routinely spars this way, and often enough from day one. I highly doubt a Kyokushin teacher would allow a person who just walked in and didn’t know what they were getting into to do this, but I’m sure it’s happened somewhere at some point. Know what you’re getting into before you get on the floor IMO. As for the original intent of the thread... There’s no better time to start than now. Of course you should start. Your age and physical condition don’t matter (barring extreme circumstances). Karate is, or at least should be, a lifelong pursuit. People should go at their own pace and within their abilities. That doesn’t mean don’t push hard through your own preconceived limits though. Do your research. Forget about styles of MA. Make a list of schools in the area. Eliminate the ones that conflict with your schedule and your budget. Visit the rest. Forget about preconceived notions; it’s nothing like the movies and the like tell you it is. I can describe exactly what goes on at the dojo I train at for hours at length, but that’ll pretty much go out the window once you get on the floor. The most important thing is finding the right instructor who’s teaching in a way you can best learn from, and the students you’ll be training alongside. Don’t buy into a style because people tell you it’s the best. Buy into a teacher and classmates who are the best fit for you.

Congrats Noah and Devin. Thanks for being a key part of what makes this such a great place.

How tall is the ceiling? For long term durability and value for money, a traditional heavy bag on a bag stand would be better. There’s also wall mount heavy bag hangers out there. I’d exhaust all the options before committing to a freestanding bag. There was no option for me, so I went with the BOB XL. I really like it, but I’d honestly much rather a Muay Thai bag. More so than tipping over, I think the biggest aggravation for me is freestanding bags walk all over. The only way I stopped it from happening was buying one of those industrial rubber floor mats. Filled with 6 bags of pea gravel and on top of one of those mats, and my BOB doesn’t move at all.

I’ve heard that happening from several people with the Wavemaster 2XL/XXL. Watching a Torrent assembly video from Century, it appears they’ve redesigned the part that goes into the base. Rather than the base being a donut, so to speak, where the bag threads into it, the base has a shaft part that the bag slides onto. No more unscrewing and the bag part coming up. At least in theory anyway. That might be better and more durable. The one we had we had to bin as the plastic core was in two pieces. How long did it last? Ultimately, I want something that'll last a while. It'll probably only be me and the wife beating on it, which means it'll see less abuse than it would at a school. She’s referring to the previous Wavemaster XXL model.

here is a good article on Passai kata and it is great that you look into the origin of the forms you practice in TKD/TSD. https://www.ikigaiway.com/2014/making-sense-of-passai-an-exploration-of-origin-and-style/ That's an excellent article. Thanks for sharing. I've read it and watched the clips, and will undoubtedly go through it a few more times because there's a lot to take in. Two things really stood out for me. Firstly, that the form has evolved substantially in recent decades, from being more of a soft/internal almost tai chi like form, to a much harder and more aggressive style. If my observation is correct, then I'm inclined to lean towards the view held by some historians that out of all the possible translations of the name, the most widely accepted is possibly not the original intention. The second thing that really jumped out at me was the shotokan bassai dai. It was clearly a natural evolution of earlier versions, and was undoubtedly the closest to what I practice as simply bassai. In fact it was almost identical. Close enough in fact that I'd bet if someone on my club were to perform the shotokan version of bassai dai in a grading instead of doing our version, if they did it well, I reckon they'd still get full marks in that section of the test. Feedback afterwards would possibly be along the lines of showing chambers more and being a bit more direct in some of the moves. Bassai sho also stood out for me but for different reasons. I saw in that a kind of amalgam of key elements from the pyung ahn/pinnan/heian set as well as bassai dai. Almost like bassai sho is a kind of abridged version of all the forms typically taught to pre dan grade (kyu / geup ) students. We don't have bassai sho at ours, but as it looks like a mix of other bits we do have, I might learnt it for my own interests to see if it sheds more light on the other forms I have so far. Watching Kanazawa’s (Shotokan) performance of Bassai Dai and Bassai Sho, Bassai Dai seems a lot closer to the Pinan/Heian series than Bassai Sho does. To be honest, the Pinan/Heian series seems a bit closer to Bassai Dai than the various Kanku kata that the Pinan/Heian allegedly came from. Maybe that’s just me though. I see far more Pinan in Bassai Dai than I see in Kanku.

The Dunning-Kruger effect. In a nutshell... The less you know about something, the more you think you know about it because you haven’t seen anything past the basics. The more you know about a subject, you realize how much more you truly don’t know about it. Beginners typically grossly over rate their own level of competency, whereas as experts typically underrate their own level. I see it all the time in my academic students - they think they know everything there is to know about the subject, whereas I realize how superficial my own knowledge of it really is. For example, I teach Newton’s Laws of Motion. I explain it at a level they can understand and demonstrate it. They think it’s simple. In my head I can’t help but think “it’s not that simple, guys. If this was being taught in an astrophysics class at MIT, you’d think these laws were anything but simple.”

The biggest superficial difference I see between Japanese karate and Okinawan karate is Japanese styles like to exaggerate the movements, making them very big and long; whereas the Okinawan systems appear to be very compact. The most obvious example I can think of is enkei mawashi uke, or the circular block at the end of kata like Sanchin, Tensho, and Saiha. I’ve been taught to have the arms pretty much fully extended, whereas the Okinawan stylists I’ve seen keep in very short and compact. IMO how these blocks are done during kihon line drills and kata and what they look like isn’t relevant; it’s the application and use of them that’s important. If you use them the right way in application, it’s not going to look like either way when a punch, kick, grab, etc. comes at you. Where the strike is aimed and how fast it’s coming is going to dictate the “size” of the block. And how the karateka interprets it’s bunkai. I’ve seen the high block/jodan uke being taught as high above the head and close, closer and further away from the forehead, etc. Some people emphasize it being further away from the head so when the strike hits the arm, the blocking arm won’t hit the head. Others emphasize in close for efficiency in movement. I say it all depends on what’s coming at me, where it’s aimed, and how fast. I also think there’s not much point in over analyzing the block because the actual block itself is the smallest part of it - if you time it right and use correct footwork and body movement, the block is more deflecting the strike than anything else. If I get to the right spot at the right time, the “block” is pretty much pushing the strike further away, thereby giving me a bigger counter target. Far easier said than done

Add to that that a lot of Shotokan organizations don’t teach the Taikyoku kata to adults, but rather to kids. Those organizations start off with the Pinan/Heian kata. I’ve seen many Shotokan curricula that don’t have the Taikyoku series in the adult syllabus. It strikes me as kind of odd not teaching the kata your system’s founder developed, but I get it.

As MatsuShinshii said, the Dai and Sho suffices mean greater and lesser, or large and small. Kanku/Kusanku follows this as well in some systems - Kanku Dai and Kanku Sho. It’s basically another way of numbering them, so to speak. As to the history of Passai/Bassai, I’ll defer to MatsuShinshii.

Shoto was Funakoshi’s pen name. It means waving pines. Shotokan means Shoto’s house/ house of shoto.

There’s Bassai Dai and Bassai Sho in Shotokan. Perhaps look into those instead of Passai Nidan?

While they’d spend years on a single kata, the Taikyoku and Pinan/Heian series weren’t part of this. Both set were allegedly created by Gichin Funakoshi and Itosu to make teaching kids and beginners easier. The Pinan/Heian series is said to have been Kusanku/Kanku broken down into easier to digest separate kata. Itosu and Funakoshi changed a lot of how karate was taught once they started teaching on mainland Japan. I highly doubt they had adults studying Taikyoku kata for several years before moving on. With the exception of Sanchin and Naihanchi, I highly doubt the shorter kata (like today’s kyu kata) were studied for years. I’d picture the longer and more complex kata like Kanku, Gojushiho, Seiunchin, etc. to be the kata that people studied for several years. I don’t think it was until karate became formalized and curricula were developed that these relatively shorter and less intricate kata even really came into play. I could easily be wrong though. I’m basing this on what makes sense to me. A karate historian could easily disprove it all with dates and developers of the individual kata.