Luther unleashed

Great informational post. I dont actually agree with some of the informations wording. Chun kuk do in particular does invlude taekwondo however it has more of a Tang Soo Do base and historically although chuck norris is an acomplished TKD guy; his roots and walk to fame as a karate champion are in TSD. In this clip which is actually pretty funny, you see his uniform back. Chun kuk do is a mixture and marketed as a martial art itself, however its still TangvSoo Do. Chuck Norris and Eva Gabor - Karate Demonstration…: Soo Bahk Do can sometimes be considered its own martial art in some informational web pages however, when i studied it my instructor was not part of a federation. He refered to it as TSD not SBD. We once had a guest instructor from my instructors previous school/federation and we wore a patch that said Moo Duk Kwan and their backs said Tang Soo Do. In this clip you will see my instructor doing bassai dae blindfolded, but because of the poor recording angle you mostly see his instructor in Tang Soo Do. Again, tyebstyle taugh with very much hip movement is technically Soo Bahk Do. Bassai Dae: https://youtu.be/x2OIyjvrL7U When it comes to these variations i try not to obsess over it because it will make your head spin, is Soo Bahk Do its own martial art' is Chun Kuk Do its own martial art? You will find more then one answer but as an insider my perception is they are the same. As far as the relationship to TKD they have some similarities. I practice some TKD as well and its an easy transition especially if you are coming from Tang Soo Do because if they are a traditional school that uses korean terminoligy it will be the same from counting to ready and return stance. The emphasis on kocking will be moderately the same although TKD has places much more importance on kicks. Tang Soo Do os a shotokan varient with more emphasis on kicking though. Thanks a lot for the informational post though, some can find it useful to help understand the origins of the arts. As for me i do as well but i find the different ways of using technuiqes more interesting. In a couple hours im going to do a quick video breakdown on some of this, im nobody special so i dont mean to sound like im blessing the thread with my video, i simply feel that its much easier to show and explain, speaking rather then writing. Will post in a bit.

I'm just getting done with class tonight and heading home, tomorrow I have the day off and I'm going to be just relaxing around the house so I will give some input in the thread on the variations of the style. If I have time I will also make a little video too kind of help me explain from my experience anyways. I always keep a date, lol. I'm surprised there aren't more practitioners chiming in here, it's starting to feel like a very unseen martial arts in this forum. Let's see if we can change that

Well as fast as the historic and roots of different factions, google can do better then me, and I'm certain other practitioners can as well. I am hoping others will chime in and make this a diverse, and well rounded thread. As for breaking down technique, I'm personally much more interested in that for sure. Give me a little bit and ill post when I have a min. Just wanted to respond rather then leave you hanging and leave the thread with the crickets sound lol.

7 years... do I get the job?

Thanks, my background in TSD? I have trained in a few styles of Tang Soo Do. The most recent is Soo BAHK Do style, which is basically Tang Soo Do with heavy emphasis on training hip movement. I have also studied chun kuk do, which is a whole other argument in another part of the forum, but that's the Chuck norris system which is a varient of Tang Soo Do. The most recent place I trained combined Tang Soo Do Moo duck Kwan style with kick boxing. They romeved one steps and replaced them with kick boxing style combinations, this is mostly what I implement in what I teach and I add the onesteps later on.

So I realised that we have many TKD threads and thought we could use an informative thread on my primary art Tang Soo Do. I envision a place where we can discuss technuiqes, similarities and differences, provide information to those looking for more about it, or whatever we come up with. To start, one should understand there are different variations as with most martial arts. They tend to branch of and look different. In Tae Kwon Do there can be very large differences between WTF/ITF (as an example) styles. Forms will be completely different and main principles of kicking speed vs power, or how power or speed is generated. Usually Tang Soo Do is more similar, using the same forms although different organizations will perform them very differebtly, yet following the same patterns or concepts. As another example I primarily practice Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan, and often known as SOO BAHK DO. It follows the same concept principles of lets say, "World Tang Soo Do Association " but my style will take on a less rigid looking style, and more fluid. Tang Soo Do is basically a sister art to Shotokan, but there are differences. The main one being that Tang Soo Do follows the common Korean style kicking philosophy. Korean style kicking is a prominent part of most Korean martial arts, and the use of things like hip in kicjs are usually more prominent as well compared to Shotokan. It's essentially a Korean Shotokan varient. I teach Integrated Tang Soo Do, which is a foundation of TSD while incorporating other arts for a wider base and knowlage. Tang Soo Do is a very well rounded martial art. I don't add other arts because I feel personally TSD is lacking something. I Integrate other systems because I prefer to share the good of all my experiences. Tang Soo Do is the base I chose because I enjoyed the training and the concepts of Tang Soo Do, which has a very strong foundation in focusing on the person, and not just technuiqes themselves. I hope this becomes a place that TSD practitioners and people looking for more information can find useful. Thanks.

Tang Soo Do DOES have throws. It is often said that the throws in Tang Soo Do look like judo. We know that many martial arts influence others, but Tang Soo Do definitely uses hip tosses, and sweeps.

As a follow up to what I was saying... Here is a clip of a video I did showing some different technuiqes. There's about three self defense moves in this clip, the first is more hapkido, the second wing chun but modified to fit our fighting stance. I'd be interested to hear what you think about how I perform this. I have no question you could pick it apart lol. https://youtu.be/84jVWPZtCGg

Really awsome. I have some basic wing chun training and would love to take on more but finding places are hard for me. This is really great stuff here. Imho wing chun is the single most beautiful martial art I have ever seen. When I chose styles I didn't choose styles lol. What I mean is I learned what I could from whoever, at times it was very scattered and mixed but I learned to the best of my ability. My main background is in karate/The Kwon Do becasue of these ideas, but also becasue I chose the teachers of styles as well. Can't say enough about wing chun though. I'd love to get more in-depth for sure, it just draws me in, pure beauty IMHO. Very nice videos by the way.

Awsome!! Nothing like hard work paying off. Good job to you, that sounds pretty cool and I'm glad your on the right track with what the martial arts are about, fits in this thread. Good job!

Incredible story! You shall receive no judgement from me. I for one never really desired my next belts... Of course I'd always wanted black belt, but I never wanted to rush it. I don't rush anything. Except for overdue term papers... I graded when I was told to grade. I didn't strive for the rank, I just tried a little harder everyday. I wanted to be good at karate, and still hope to be someday. I didn't care what colour my belt was. When I received shodan I really cared a lot though. Now, as a new shodan, I see some karateka who hold lower ranks outperforming black belts, including myself at times. This is FINE. Their ability to outperform is not reflective of anyone but their own abilities. I made it through the ranks and am performing at shodan level. Just because their technique is sharper, does not mean they are more knowledgeable, or could defend themselves easier, or are more respectful to others. We must only work on ourselves, and not pay attention to those around us, for this can be most discouraging. "First know yourself, then know others." This also means I have potential to grow. This is the ultimate aim, to always grow as a MAist and a person. Perhaps if a 4th kyu is performing at shodan level, they have less potential to grow, or will grow slower. I for one hope to never hit a bad plateau like I did in my teens... Luther unleashed, your signature sums up much of what I believe in. Thanks for the well thought out post. I agree that in training you should focus on yourself and not others. As a teacher though all I do is look at others. Your also right that some students will look better and that it doesn't mean they have more knowlage, or training time for that matter. The issue ibsee often though is that many students can perform their current material fine, but can't perform the previous rank with any sense of efficiancy. This really represents a problem to me that comes from chasing belts rather then the knowlage becasue if it was the knowlage you were after, you would certainly keep seeking it. A month ago I learned something applications for kichu il bu which is taught at white belt level. If I only seek rank, you understand that learning that isn't a requirement for rank, and I am far past kichu il bu in tang soo do. Again really great post.

So JR137, I thought it would be cool to share this with you. I liked the dodge ball thing but I also really liked the part about giving them a way back in becasue them a standing around is not conducive to fun, not an exact quote of course, so I tried this last night. The goal was to not get hit, if they got hit they had to perform their highest form (kata/hyung/poomse) to get back into the game. It left for a lot if rushing and sort of sloppy forms but I felt it was a fun way to practice and spice up class. Also, they gotbto practice with a different type of pressure, I had a lot of fun too of course as my arm was doing the throwing of course haha. I felt like it may not be the best for the beginner class so I tried it out in the intermediate class, good stuff.thanks for your post, thought it might be cool to see your post come to life somewhere else Karate dodge ball Karate dodge ball:

Really some great posts guys. The thing that stands out the most is how many have said they chased belts in the beginning at a young age or at least early training days. I find it truly interesting because I never did, and only cared when I decided I wanted to teach and saw a different perspective on ranks importance. I'm not attempting to speak in a way that makes me sound judgmental about it, just saying that it wasn't an interest to me. I was homeless in my late teens, I used to go into dojos and watch classes and act like I had money to join just becasue interested me that much. Crazy i know. I trained out of a lot of books, I studied with a friends uncle that boxed for the army, and was a black belt in The Kwon Do. I cared very little for the sport aspect and cared a great deal about what I got from it personally on the mental side, and from a combatitive side. The neighborhood i was in was rough and I faught a lot as well. I realise I'm being very personal but I'm feeling the urge to share so don't judge haha. I guess where I'm going with this is that if there's something deeper in the meaning its easy for us to focus on more then the surface. It's OK to set a goal for a belt, I believe it's the greatest reason to have belts, to have something to reach for. There just needs to be a balance and the goal should be to be the best we can be, and hold ourselves to a high standard, that is what makes a belt hold its weight anyways.

"Martial Arts" An in-depth look at rank Before I started teaching or believing that I was actually going to be teaching I careed nothing about rank, there was just something that I got that many other people didn't seem to get. when I learned how to do around house kick in 1994 as a white belt in Taekwondo, I did not care about getting to the next rank, I only cared about getting really good at that kick, and the next techniques that I learned the same was true, I wanted to be good at them and I didn't need somebody else to tell me because I could see it. In my later years I started to become aware of the fact that in order to teach, people only seemed to respect black belt and above and even though I could teach my roundhouse kick extremely well with very good technique, with proper pivoting and use of the hip in this Korean style, it would not be respected unless I wore a certain color belt. If you never had aspirations of becoming a martial arts instructor, for what purpose do you chase belts? I have witnessed people who are studying for second degree when I was studying for my first degree black belt, they were not be able to perform their first degree material as well as I could, not even close and it was aparent they were not practicing and it because they were beyond that rank. This is an example of chasing belts or rank. If your rank is to carry its weight and people are to look at you as a second degree, does it make sense for me to be much better and more polished in first degree material, does 2nd degree black belt simply mean you've moved on to learn new things and not carry any weight pertaining to the first degree material? Of course not, at least that was not the intention when rank was created. I once questioned a master prior to joining his program about where they trained and things of this nature. His response was simply "its not necessarily who gives the student the rank, but the abilities of the person who holds it"! While this easily sounds like a cop out, if you listen and discover the true meaning behind the words you should be led to understand that anybody can give anybody rank, but only those who truly dedicate themselves can become the true rank. I have witnessed this in places I have trained, I have witnessed people not being able to perform techniques let alone perform them well and yet they pass, what does this do to my rank? The answer is it does nothing to my rank because I have earned it and what makes me the rank that I am is not depending on who gave it to me, but more so it depends on me as an individual who makes the rank. In the end I am hoping that I'm not offending people who are proud of their rank, because essentially their rank is also a measure of time dedicated to something and that speaks volumes about their dedication. However, I believe the most productive frame of mind is not to focus on belts /rank as a whole but simply to focus on wanting to learn and get better at techniques with a steady progression towards their mastery. Many people can claim a certain rank, but all do not truly carry the proper motivation to keep their rank carrying the intended weight. My students get excited for testing and enjoy earning their rank, this is why the most useful mind set behind rank/testings for me personally is to reward short term goals and pressure check students in training. In my mind, it is better to be an exceptional yellow belt, then to simply be and average black belt. This is my mindset and again, it is not my intention at all to diminish anybody's accomplishments of rank in whatever system they may study. I simply dream of a martial arts world where we focus on mastery of technique and not accomplishing rank. As an instructor I am thankful to have the ability to influence martial arts in this way, in a way I believe is positive and benefits martial arts/artists positively as a whole.

I agree with this idea, but it has to be kept in context, though. Its good to learn lots of different things, but its also good to try to get a good grasp on a concept first, experiment with it, and if you don't think it works for you, then look at moving on. Overloading with learning for the sake of learning isn't always a great idea. Yes I saw an interview where Bruce said you should develop a strong foundation in a style, because it give you strong roots. Can you imagine a white belt with no other experience learning 20 martial arts vs a white belt who focuses on grasping one set of skills and thought process? Also can you now imagine a black belt who is a black belt on one style yet is a white belt in many other styles? The many styles is a nice addition to the black belt, yet imho it's a distraction that makes things too chaotic for the white belt.

I'm not knocking anybody who does pivot on the heel of course, but I just can't really understand a benefit. I read some of the reasoning but still it seems to me that the balls were made to ballance, along with your toes. The balls of your feet are also able to create a soft weight distribution and bounce that cannot be accomplished on your heels. I can see some people finding it easier based on the fact that we are all different. I don't think one can truly move with the same fluidity though, if a style isn't based on fluid movement then great, but I think the most natural way to do things is usually the best.

Hey that's good stuff. It is more of a psychological angle then class material ideas but it is very good concepts. I do much of the possotive feedback. I say "better" if I'm looking for much more because I don't want to say great job and have them think they have something down that they need work on. I also say "excellent" probably 20 times a class when they are really getting it, also when I see them working hard. I really agree with you there. I also like the idea of giving the kids a way back into a game, because they don't like to sit bored and wait. This I don't do, however if I do a game it's at the end of class and this is the way it ends, not sure how id end it but the concept intrigues me. Good stuff tha nd for taking the time to post it

Nice job

We always do a workout, then we cool down with dynamic strestretching, then we proceed with class. Last 5 min of class we do static stretching. Research suggests its more effective after a workout then before. If class runs over we skip but not usually . I'm not too keen on no stretching at all but if one is to become more feflexavke it's going to require ykybto stretch at home anyways. Ten min of stretching a week isn't going to cut it. I think if the class is very good then compensate by stretching at home, the most important part of the class is of course the martial arts lessons and energy of class

Oh, one more thing. Teaching forms to youngans, thanks for the positive feedback on my kids video. I currently teach about half a class length of application to youth once a month. They seem bored sometime and like to move faster and kick and punch. I don't do it as much to teach real usable applications although they are, I do it to open their mind pretty much as you basically said. I hope it's useful down the road even if they are in another do-Jang at some point, it's my hope that their foundation and big picture view on karate will make them better martial artist. I want to effect them in this way, it's my goal and the greatest testament to weather or not I am an effective teacher. That's how I judge myself anyways lol.

I'm not even going to comment on breaking anything but boards. I won't waist your time. Many martial arts make a note of breaking many things, I have always only broken boards at testings only. We have always used 1 inch thick pine boards. They can be very easy to break with a hammer fist or something, I did break my middle finger knuckle as a white belt while doing a punch. Slightly wrong angle left too much force going to one knuckle. Just a "boxers fracture" nothing serious but never been the same. I have never not been able to break a board. The video above with the guy who can't break the board? I don't get it, what type of board I wonder does that have to be for a supposed 2nd or 3rd dan (video on phone is small and I can't see that well. At least at that level you would think he would know what he can and can't do in front of people. Sensai8 above made some great points, one point was the poor job (not a quote) that the assistant was doing holding. No question that's true, but even if that was the case he should have been able to adjust in my opinion, if his rank carries the weight that I would concider a second or thirds dan. By adjust I mean make it more like a speed break which requires more "snap" in the strike, and not follow through alone, although he was clearly missing the "punch through" part of the strikes as well. I'm really just confused watching this. Anyways, I posted this in another thread but it seems apropriate here. My first time using a roundhouse kick with the ball of my foot. Used a youth size board which is .75 of an inch laying around so used it. It was after testing and I didn't have the 1 inch. I'll try it another time though. For those who didn't know, a speed break requires more snap as I stated. If you simply follow through and the strike has little speed and force at the point of contact, the board will push, not break. Was fun!

I wouldn't mind running my own school again; I have done so in the past, before I moved to go to school. The only problem is that right now, I don't think I could honestly dedicate what I need to for one to be successful, with my boys being young, and they being so involved in so many other activities. I really make myself available to them for practice, training, and playing and watching, so unless I did a very limited schedule, I would have a tough time running a full-time school. But who knows? If I did end up running a school, I wouldn't mind doing it under my current organization. By and large, I like the curriculum as far as testing requirements go, and if I was making my own schedule and teaching my own classes, I could dedicate more time to what I wanted to work on with the students. Thanks for sharing this. Its good to do those kinds of drills, to at least get the students thinking and seeing different things. Well good luck man with whatever you decide to do. I didn't see this post I wish there was a notification to let me know I was quoted or something. I hear you about the kids, it's tough. Actually upon starting my program though I'm able to do it as my only "career" at the moment and it actually allows me more time personally, then prior when I was a mechanic working 50+ hrs a week. Never know buddy, keep your mind open.

Might be worth noting the style of TSD I practice most is actually Soo Bahk Do, we use a great deal of hip in our forms, and it can come across as less hard style sometimes. It's less seen on YouTube under TSD. Just sharing based on you researching.

That's really cool and interesting. To Bassai Dae specifically Tang Soo Do almost always goes high in the kick. Most of the time it's taught that you go hight to show, but real application is low, generally. I look at it like that's te korean spin on a Shotokan Kata, Koreans like to kick. I like your story because what it symbolizes most to me is an open minded teacher and do-Jang!

There will always be somebody to criticize te standard of another martial arts studio. ALWAYS! I think that the important thing is to address attitude right away, I make students do push-ups, and if teu don't correct the problem they do more push-ups and I let them know they can do push-ups all class long if tet like, up to them. It nips it in the bud right away. I have about a year of assistant teaching experience and have taught on my own for going on 7 months now FYI. You can always talk after class, and YOU SHOULD but in class that is my way. I always follow up after class though to address why they were doing push-ups, and let them know I want to see better, and let them know what I see them doing good at, to encourage them. Good luck.