delta1

Good on ya! The books are ok to just veg out with. Movies are never as good as the book, but HP3 was the worst piece of drivel I've seen in a long time. I'd rather sit through 'Killer Clowns From Outer Space' again than 'th Priz of A'. :(where's the barfing smiley?):

Good point! I've seen the MA's change several people, give them more confidence in both physical and social skills. I've known some, and met many more, that turned their selves around after getting into MA's. Datu Kelly Worden will tell youthat he'd probably be in prison if not for his involvement in MA's. Now, he's one of the most respected martial artists around, and his seminars are some of the best you can find, regardless your style. True, other things can change a person. And some of us don't need changing that much. And nothing will change some people. Doesn't invalidate the effectiveness of MA's in helping to better ourselves.

HUMANOID is as much as they'll admit to at this point! Funny thing about those guys, though. I took my cat to the apointment, but they shoved me in the machine instead! Go figure!

Drugs, from the sound of it! Or maybe you've taken one too many shots to the head! Speaking of which, I just got a CAT Scan. The technician was pretty sure I do have a brain, but they have to wait for the Doc to read it to be sure. But even brainless people know that Thai Fighting Fish are better to put in the tank than Goldfish! DL, hope it works out good for you. Cars are frustrating sometimes. TDA, if you don't take your uncle up on that offer, you will be forced to quit Kenpo and take something like Muay Thai as pennance for your stupidity!

Welcome, Steve! Ireland to Japan- quite a change! Been to Japan a few times, one day I hope to see Ireland. I hear it's beautiful, and they have some good American Kenpo schools there as well!

Welcome aboard, JD!

Welcome, Ant!

Varries from school to school, but yes, we fight with "full" contact. There are usually rules, and we respect that everyone has to go home healthy at the end of the day. One good example, many of our shin kicks to the legs are designed to destroy joints, as opposed to the sporting variety which tends to just make the leg hurt and cramp up. We obviously don't take those shots. They are practiced under force in our self defences, but it is controled force. Also, they can be applied full force to a dummy. Often, in schools I've visited, there is no requirement that everyone fight with full contact. But the vast majority do require it at upper colored belts, and I have not been to a school that will give a black belt if you don't fight full contact. Typically, it seems, the full contact guys either stick around after class and work out, or meet on weekends, or both. These are the seriouse martial artists, not the average guy paying to keep the doors open. Of course, if you make it to Brown in AK, you are probably pretty seriouse any how. I will also say that we probably don't do it as often as the average Muay Thai/MMA school. On the other hand, those that train with excesive contact tend to get 'punch drunk'. They often have trouble carrying a decent conversation, and have to ask people to dumb it down a bit so they can participate. No problem, I fully understand. I'll be happy to accomodate! AK allows for use of varrying degrees of force and control. It's all about options. If you do find yourself in the showers with six prisoners or MT types , AK works well for multiple opponents. Your odds ain't too good, true. But better than with nothing. And better than a system that only goes face to face, one on one.

I've experienced the 'brotherhood' more at seminars and when working out with other styles and schools than anywhere else. But there is definately a respect and brotherhood when you meet a fellow martial artist, and most are very willing to share their art with you. There is a sense of belonging or togetherness whenever people share a common interest, and I think this especially goes for when our interest is punching each other! Nothing builds respect like mat time!

Good job, KK! Congratulations!

Easily remedied. Get some classmates together who want to work on it, run some drills on your own, and spar with the head as a target. Start out with no contact to the head, then work up to light contact. I don't know if I'd go 'full' contact to the head, especially without protecton. In fact, I'd recomend moderately heavy with light gloves and boxing/Muay Thai style headgear. Another option would be to find some other styles to work out with, ones that use contact to the head. Many schools have a walk in policy with a very reasonable fee. And these days, most of the seriouse self defense or sport schools like to have other stylists come in because it gives their students something different to deal with. It's an eye opener for you as well, and a lot of fun. Oh yeah, I almost forgot- don't just block shots to the head. Move the target!

Absolutely not on the first part- agreed on the second! One of the things that makes a boxer so dangerouse, even though his style is sport and very limmited at that, is he trains regularly with contact and INTENT! Training for MMA full contact is excellent training, even with its relatively few limmitations (rules, and some posible deficiencies in self defense techniques). I hope I havn't given the impression I disrespect MMA. The pros, and those wishing to go pro, I would think get the best they can afford. And I'm sure they have a brutal training regimine. I'm not cutting them down in any way. Look at it fom others perspective, though. Not everyone is suited for this kind of training. Some people just don't want to, others can't. When I first started, we used to go out with no protection and fight contact in the crap. Now, I'm over 50 with some health problems, and I appreciate that over the years I've collected a few items of protective gear. And I can't train as hard as I used to. I'll still work with the hard contact guys when I can, but you aren't likely to find me in Pride, K-1, or UFC. This is another thing I appreciate about the Kenpo method of training with techniques- when I feel like it, I can run them under hard physical contact. But when I can't, I can go back and gently refine them, tweak them, explore different applications. I can adjust the level of contact and exertion to suit how I feel at the time. Give me one workout with heavy contact, I can guarantee the next couple will be light, working on technique. Most workouts are somewhere in between. So don't think I, or probably most people, disrespect what you do. But there are many ways to train, and many methods. There are also many reasons for taking the martial arts. I don't claim Kenpo is best for everybody, any more than I would say everyone should train with hard contact all the time. The farthest I'll go is to say that if you don't train with contact sometime, you drastically reduce your chances of success if you have to use your skills for real. Then again, not everyone wants to train for that eventuality either. To each his own.

You are still locked into the base technique, so we'll deal with that first: Because it's sport. Given the level of intensity, and the possibility of things going wrong and the guy falling onto your hyperextended knee, would you want this applied in the ring? Now, step outside the box you're trying to keep us all in, and you have seen it in limmited rules sporting fights. Go back, reread my posts, and look where I talk about droping back to take some of his control in a throw. That is one of the things this technique teaches, if you take it to the level of understanding and application instead of rote memory. If you are asking questions, how come you aren't useing question marks? Was your style effective- you got an answer any how? I've talked to Kenpoists who train for and compete in local venues. They have a totally different mindset. Some that train both realistically and for MMA competition go through a programing and deprograming phase of thraining when they compete and then come back to real training. MMA comps are good training for reality in some ways. But, I'll say it again, if you aren't training for reality attacks you're kidding yourself that you are pepared for reality. Someone may square off and challenge you, and you stand a good chance to survive that. Then again, he may just slam you hard from behind without warning. He may use a weapon. He may have friends. There are two primary things that differ in martial arts systems- the concepts that are used to apply the basic, common principles, and the method of training. I am useing this clip to help illustrate one of Kenpo's methods of training. I've often said here that it isn't for everyone. Many people thrive with this kind of instruction, most do well, but some don't do good at all with it. As for the use of concepts, a lot depends on your focus, or what you are trying to accomplish. If you train for sport, you will apply a different set of concepts than if you train for self defence. If you train for both, your method must be a compromise. And who said I'm on the ropes?

Linear to beat circular, circular to beat linear. You need both to be complete and ballanced. You need noodles for your spaggetti, not for masonry projects!

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, guys. I'm sort of left speechless...

I'd say that less than 1/3 of all fights end in a ground grappling match. The stat is intentionally misleading, as it probably includes knock downs, knock outs, and the 'ground and pound' scenario which is just a continuation of the stand up game on a horizontal plane. My thinking is that grappling, both stand up and ground, is important. But not at the expense of a good stand up fighting game. I wish I was in a position where I could do more ground work, but it's not to be right now.

Good story- thanks. Sorry to hear about his infection. This is actually one of the things we train to avoid. One example, a heal palm strike to the cnin actually strikes the jaw and rotates into place so as to avoid comeing at those teeth straight on. Good illustration of why we need to think about and practice our basics more as well.

OK, we're moving down the list, so I'll wrap it up. First, as I said initially, the purpose of this is just to generate discussion and maybe illustrate what I've said about how we train for comparative purposes. Not a 'mines better' type of thing- this is not one of the techniques I'd choose to make that point if I even wanted to. Second, not all Kenpoists or schools share my philosophy. I have run across some who think you should be able to run a technique as written on the street. I, and I think the vast majority of Kenpoists, would disagree with them. To each his own, but I wish them luck if they have to put it to the test. One point that didn't come up but that this tech highlighted, that the system takes common, instinctive movements, refines them and applies them. A squat may be ungainly, but it can work. I'll be glad to continue the discussion, but it looks like a good time to tie up the loose ends, just in case.

Now, there's a cool mental immage- SGM Parker as a Ninja! Look out, Stephen Hayes! Any idiot can list Mr. Parkers name on his credits, and many have tried- and been discredited. This sounds like another ( ! ) from that group. Just out of curiosity, which CA campus can you learn this on? UC Berkely- it's listed under the Humanities, right?

I've trained with schools in several systems, including Kenpo (mybase), that train this way. You're saying you train tougher, or more rigorously than other schools? Maybe, I'm not familiar with Kyokushin. But I have my doubts about that in some of my experiences. Same for the next set of claims (which I won't repost), with the exception of wearing pads. Add to that I've worked with groups that did weekly full contact stick fighting, sometimes going live stick, and with only head and hand protection. You aren't the only ones that train hard. I'm glad to hear you do,and that you enjoy it. But you assume a lot here concerning howothers train, even if you did work with other schools. There are a lot of valid reasons to take martial arts, and sport is one of them. So is fitnes, self improvement, or just simple curiosity. Everyone doesn't train for the same reasons as you or me. What's the problem with that? I'll tell you something else about hard training, there will come a time when you can't train as hard. It is a bitter pill to swallow, but you just might learn to appreciate some of the other reasons more. My only problem is when a school tells its students that the point sparing or just learning the bunkai without working it will prepare you for a reality situation. Same goes for Muay Thai and Kyokushin, if all you train for is the ring. There are no bells or referees on 'the street', and assaults tend to come without warning from in close, or with weapons, or friends, ... . If you are training these scenarios, congratulations. If not, you're kidding yourself as much as the sport guys you disdain. And I've been tagged by the sport guys a few times, and with some of those moves that don't work- like high kicks to the head. They don't work reliably, until you take it for granted they don't. Ask my dentist- they can be effective. Let's look at it this way: think about 5 fights. Possible score at the end- 4 better fighters and one poorer fighter left standing. Anything can happen, your training only gives you a better chance than the guy that trains less. There are no guarantees, we only try to stack the odds in our favor.

Now THAT"S a man that knows how to train! By the way, we have a technique for stealing your beer.

Excellent advice! Only thing I'd add is that if you want to take it for self defense, look at which school teaches it for self defense. If they are teaching it for practical application, they will spar, and sometimes with contact. And they will focus on practical skills. I'd say doing both would be a good thing. They seem to me to be different enough not to mess you up or confuse you too badly. But I'm not a Japanese stylist, so I could be wrong.

Hey, DL, congrats to both of you! Pretty special to be going through this with your son!

Drunken Monkey, I know what you mean. A lot of this stuff, you have to see to really understand. Then again, to REALLY understand it, you have to feel it applied! And my jabs at the MT guys not withstanding, I've been a little surprised at feeling some of the other guys techniques applied as well. Heck fire, it's all just good fun in the end- and some useful skills!

TheDevilAside- I was in a hurry this morning, and didn't give you a complete answer. I should have said four is typically the most for a common type attack. But you may run across a school that has more. Some have techniques of their own, and some like to say they have the "LOST" techniques of AK. Those arejust techniques that were dropped as the system matured because what they taught was addresed better somewhere else. Another common grouping is three, one for each demension. At least, this is what I've seen so far. I'm an intermediate level Kenpoist, so you should check this with your Instructor. From what you said earlier in your post, it sounds like you are getting some good instruction. I envy you guys that have regular acces to a good school. Hang around here a while longer, and I'll be asking you for advice and information!