cross

This highlights a lack of "correct" training. Many arts will teach you to "duck, weave, block" and most of the time in training that works fine. The difference in the bar is that now(although your friends are only playing) its real. What you describe has "throwing your arms in front of your face like a spastic" is a humans natural flinch response to a frontal threat coming at the face. Unfortunately most schools wont even recognize this let alone train you to use it to your advantage. However it makes much more sense to use your natural flinch and "attach" your technical applications to this initial reaction. So basically, if you feel your training is lacking or that it isnt helping you. Then chances are your correct. And when it comes to self defense specifically, i dont think the answer is "your need more training in the same thing to make it work", but rather "you need more training in something better."

What do you mean by the 2 basic strikes? Keeping in mind the dynamic nature of a knife attack, realistic training must mimic this has close has possible. Any defense techniques you learn may work fine against the intended technique, but with any variation of that the muscle memory will not be of much help. This is just my opinion and i much prefer a concept based approach to most self defense situations. This leaves you much more open and responsive to whats going on, and even if you have never seen the specific attack before, you can apply the principles to effectively deal with it. For knives specifically:(the principles come via Richard Dimitri at https://www.senshido.com). 1. Clear your body. 2. Secure the weapon hand. 3. Neutralize the attacker. Whilst these are reasonably broad(which i feel is a good thing), they still provide provisions for all types of knife attacks you could face. Because of the dynamic nature of the attack, you cant try to attach specific techniques to the situations because the techniques used with be incidental. Its also important to understand what your opponent will do once you have secured the weapon hand.(once again from Richard Dimitri), in no particular order: 1. Try to pull their hand away. 2. Try to push the weapon into you still. 3. Strike you with other parts of their body(or pull out another weapon). 4. Swap hands. From these concepts and principles you can adequately prepare yourself for each possibility by isolating each in training and then putting it all together in the "all out" drill i mentioned in my first post.

I completely agree. Also keep in mind that the knife attack with most likely involve alot of "random" movements that cant really be easily categorized or pigeon-holled into certain techniques. What im saying is, its far better to practice against a person trying to stab you and hurt you with the knife any way they want, as opposed to "you attack me this way and i defend this way".

"Proper techniques" according to who? The techniques these people use are the ones that work. Regardless of what they look like or how hard they are to do, there are effective in achieving their goal. Start adding realistic pressure, randomness and resistance from the opponent and all of a sudden those complex techniques arnt all their cracked up to be.

The problem is that action is much faster than reaction. In any situation where attack and defense is involved, the person doing the defense will always be reacting. Keeping this in mind, it is not logical to try and defeat something that is already going to moving at you before you start to move with a fine motor complex skill. Thats why you never see people performing limb breaks and locks off strikes in any full contact arts where they actually have to deal with real energy all the time.

This post was originally published as an article in a dedicated KarateForums.com Articles section, which is no longer online. After the section was closed, this article was most to the most appropriate forum in our community. This article aims to discuss the pre- and post-fight stages of a self defense situation. The majority of martial arts schools focus purely on the physical aspects of self defense situations and neglect to train adequately in the areas I will highlight below. Types of Attacks For this article, we will assume that you will face two kinds of attacks in a self defense situation. Surprise This kind of attack is where you are hit, grabbed, stabbed, without previous warning or without even seeing the attacker before it happens. In this case there is no pre-fight to deal with. Non Surprise This kind of attack is where you clearly can see the attacker, and have the chance to talk to him or her before the attack takes place. However, the attacker may seem completely harmless, which is why the pre-fight information I discuss below is an important part of making sure this doesn't turn into a surprise attack. Pre-Fight De-escalation This should be happening from the time you start talking to the person and realize that he or she is becoming aggressive towards you. Saying "I don't want to fight" 2 or 3 times while in a fighting stance is not what de-escalation is all about. You need to ask a question that will make the attacker stop and think, even for a slight moment. Not a question that asks what they would do, but rather how they feel. Some examples are: "Are you feeling OK, mate?" "What do you need?" "Did you hurt yourself?" "What can I do to help you?" I’m sure you can think of a lot more, but the point is, ask a question, don't make statements. A question will make them think and that gives you time and the element of surprise. Posture While you’re trying to calm them down with words, how you stand is equally important. Body language communicates a lot of information. The posture I speak of goes by a few names, including "The Fence" "The De-escalation Stance", etc. However, the one I advocate is Richard Dimitri's "Passive Stance". The feet are basically square and shoulder width apart, not one behind the other like a conventional boxing stance. Although I would have one leg slightly back, this is not blatantly obvious. It looks a lot like someone is pointing a gun at you and you’re saying "I surrender". The passive stance displays more defensive intent than a stance with one hand forward and one back, with your feet in a boxing position. If you get into a stance like that, you are really showing offensive intent and, in that case, you’re saying one thing but your body language is showing the opposite. The passive stance also adds functionality to your natural flinch reflex and is a great position to launch pre-emptive palm strikes. The Trigger From there, you have to decide what personal trigger you’re going to use that will decide whether you’re going to attack, run or continue trying to calm the attacker down with words. It could be them getting close enough to touch your hand, them backing you into a corner, them pushing you repeatedly, them cocking their hand back, etc. The trigger is basically knowing when to act and do more than just talk. That leads us to the fight stage. Fight The majority of martial arts techniques and the static self defense moves shown against a compliant opponent are lacking when it comes to real situations. If you can’t do it against a fully resisting opponent in training, what chance do you have against someone intent on ripping your head off? Pre-emptive Strikes This is what you do if the trigger goes off and you decide it’s time for action. This is your greatest chance of surviving the attack. Especially if there is more than one person involved. "Hit hard, hit first, hit often." From the posture we talked about above, palm heal strikes are fairly easy to do. Open hand techniques would be my preference over punching in a self defense situation. From a legal perspective, palm heals look more like slapping, which is considered much less violent than punching. What's Next? From the first strike, if you can’t turn and run, then you have to continue until you have the chance to escape. Counter Attacking If you have made the decision that you won’t do anything until you are attacked first, then you’re already putting yourself in a world of pain. The only time you want to be defending against a physical attack is while you’re doing your own attacks (via the use of a good guard, head movement, etc.) or if you are surprised. At that point, you need to make the most of your natural flinch reflex so that it turns the tables in your favor. This is why I don't like the majority of blocks as they are taught in martial arts. If we are talking purely self defense, then covering, moving and learning how to make the most of your natural reaction to flinch is the best way to deal with strikes. The Goal Your goal in any self defense situation is obviously survival, not winning or losing. If you keep that in your mind from the beginning, ego won’t come into it. You are giving yourself the right to run away without regret. Running is not a cowardly thing, it’s survival. Post-Fight Legal This is where you need to do your own research and know the laws regarding self defense, pre-emptive strikes, what you can and can’t do, etc. for your local area. Assuming that if you’re attacked, you are allowed to do whatever you want to the person is a good way to put yourself in jail. It’s also important to cooperate fully with police. If you are taken in, it’s always wise to consider (and take advantage of) your right to an attorney, before getting into the situation. Mental It’s important to realize that things rarely go back to normal straight after you experience a situation where your life is put at risk. It’s important to talk the situation through with your loved ones and, in some cases, seek professional help. Whatever you do, in the fight phase, make sure you can justify it, not only to police, but more importantly, in your own mind. Guilt and regret does terrible things to people. Revenge Attacks If you defend yourself against someone with friends, there is always the possibility that they will come after you to even the score. What can you do about that? Personally, I would not speak about the situation to anyone outside of family members; warn your close friends, however, that something may happen. Don't gloat about the situation and stay clear of the people, if possible. If that fails, scroll back to the top of the page and start the cycle again. Conclusion The before and after parts of any self defense situations are equally, if not more important than the physical altercation. If your martial arts training doesn't cover and train this regularly, then you are really only dealing with a small part of the self defense puzzle.

Dont get me wrong, im not suggesting that he should turn it into a lecture. You can discuss and learn this type of information without going over the top. To work on situational awareness actually do it. Do role-playing has Bushido_man mentioned, replicate scenarios, and actually practice avoiding and recognizing obstacles, watch out for multiple attackers etc. Perhaps there is some misunderstanding, the majority of my post alludes to doing something other than fighting the person. Its one thing to tell them to get away and run. The way they will be able to do this is by understanding why situations occur, how to spot warning signs and by doing the above mentioned drills. Not by standing there and practicing ju jitsu wrist escapes.

I agree 100%. The simple techniques are often the ones that are going to serve you best in self defense situations. Especially when it comes to defensive techniques because unless you are a mind reader, you will have a split second to react to whatever your opponent throws at you. That really doesnt leave you enough time to process whats coming at you and execute a complex response.

When reading this post please dont take offense. I am not posting this with any malice or disrespect intended. Rather i have a genuine concern that the approach it appears you will be taking with the classes will offer little to average self defense skills at best. The physical portion is very small when it comes to self defense. If you spend the majority of the time working on physical responses (which is the impression that i get from your post), then you are focusing attention in the wrong area. The "how to avoid confrontations", "how to effectively defuse an aggressive situation", "why do these situations commonly occur", "what is going to happen to your own body when you are placed under large amounts of stress and how can you use this to your advantage" are all things that need to be covered in a fair amount of detail before you get to the physical if you are serious about teaching these kids applicable self defense skills. By that im not suggesting you follow the common trend of most schools where you begin by saying "always avoid violent situations if you can and be aware of your surroundings. Now ill show you how to kick". So the genuine advice i would like to offer you(assuming you dont already have all the needed information and ability to teach the above mentioned) is to refer the class to someone else who specializes in teaching self defense. Whilst i have no doubt that you are a highly skilled martial artist, keep in mind that martial arts often dont translate to real self defense. Sure they have alot of similarities, but so does being a vet and being a doctor. In the event that you cant refer the class to someone else, then you may be able to find enough information to get you through. Here is a good place to start: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ When you are offering the service of teaching self defense, you have a duty of care to the consumer. To give them anything less than the best, most current information, or purely focusing on the physical is not adequately fulfilling that duty. With respect, Cross.

Your on the right track using something repeatedly to get your opponent thinking you are going to do that then doing something else. Keep it simple. Work your lead hand alot and you will find many things flow from there.

This is where Attachment to style comes into play. Instead of looking at what part of the body will cause the most damage to the person being kicked and the least damage to the person doing the kicking. People are more concerned with "how does shotokan do it?" regardless of any reasoning behind the chosen method. If you take a look at a couple of pictures, firstly the bones of the foot. You will notice many relatively small bones that could be easily injured if you perform a kick with even the slightest flaw in technique. Then look at the bones of the leg and you will see the main striking surface (the tibia) is a relatively large bone that doesnt required pin-point accuracy to make the kick effective. Just looking at that which one makes more sense to use? Obviously if we are talking self defense you will likely be wearing shoes which will cushion the foot somewhat depending on the type of shoes. But a strong shin kick is something you will always have, footwear or not. If your goal is to be good at shotokan then by all means use the ball of the foot or instep(or whatever your teacher tells you to). But if you ever intend to use the kick for self defense you may want to do some research and consider all your options.

Neither. Shin.

Hey bushido_man96, Best wishes to your family and your mum. I hope she continues to make a full recovery and stays healthy.

Approx 4-5 years at the karate school i used to attend.

Nothing that couldnt be gained by more modern and productive training methods.

Most often people try to validate their hours spent training in kata by creating "applications" to the techniques.

^^this^^ I would much prefer a palm strike under the chin. Less telegraphed(under the line of vision), less chance of breaking hand, more chance of hurting the person, more options for follow ups.

In what way have they been proven? There are lots of stories about what old masters could do, but not alot of evidence to suggest that in recenttimes these styles have been effective in full out situations. However the majority of traditional Japanese styles continue to teach kobudo has the means of weapons training. Sai, tonfa, bo etc were all the weapons of the day back in japan, where is the progression? I completely agree. But alot of systems will completely neglect this aspect of training, or say that unless the attacker is in touching distance with a gun then there is nothing you can do. Its not an idea situation, but should you just give up, or not prepare for it? I dont think so. There are lots of ways to deal with such a situation that will increase your already slim chances of survival. Most of it involves psychological aspects that are never covered by traditional systems because there is no "technique" already within the system to deal with such situations. It seems that while the majority of things in life evolve, there are still some traditional martial arts being taught exactly how they were years ago when they were devised by people with lower standards of education, less access to research and scientific information than we have today.

You can find a topic that has some suggestions here: http://www.karateforums.com/breaking-wrist-grabs-vt29421.html?highlight=wrist My thoughts are has follows: Tried out a few of the techniques suggested and found most were of little use when their was a strength disadvantage. Techniques like grabbing the thumb with your free hand and trying to pull it open are far 2 telegraphed and from trying it with my girlfriend i found she couldnt even bend my thumb when i let her get a proper grip on it. Other techniques that involve grabbing your own hand and trying to pull it out still rely on a fair amount of strength to be effective. From my experience i would agree with those that mentioned distractions. And would add that the wrist grab should not be what your mainly focusing on. No matter how hard a person is grabbing your wrist, chances are its not going to hurt you beyond being irritating. For a wrist grab to acheive something there must be a follow up attached to it. This is what you need to focus on more than the grab itself. Are they going to punch you? Try to take you somewhere? Grab your shirt or throat? Etc. To escape a wrist grab(in the rare event that you are wrist grabbed, woman and children who be likely to experience this), the methods i have tested to be effective are raising your free hand into half a passive stance (see pre fight posture thread in self defence section). This will put you in a better position to deal with their follow up. While your dealing with the veerbal that will obviously be involved, if you find you cant talk your way out and calm them down your hand is in a perfect position to palm strike to the chin from under their field of vision. This can lead to any number of follow ups depending on how the attacker reacts. For those in law enforcement etc who legally are not allowed to strike. Ask yourself how likely it is for you to be wrist grabbed by someone. And what kind of follow up your likely to encounter. Most often the wrist grab will come and go quickly, and the follow up with be more important to deal with. Not to mention most martial arts schools spend lots of time teaching how to deal with strikes before they land, yet when it comes to grabs you only learn to defend once your already grabbed. If its so possible to block a lighting fast strike before it lands, why cant you stop a less dangerous slower grab attempt before it lands. Or if you are going to work on how to get out of a grab why not work how to recover from a strike after you have been hit? I think there is a need for some consistency.

AikiGuy, perhaps we have our wires crossed slightly. Im not implying that people should go around training in lots of different styles(although if you have the option it would be a great benifit). My post was addressing the ways in which people will continue to practice techniques etc from within their style regardless of practicality, even to a point where they need to come to a forum and ask "does this technique ive been training for the last 5 years actually work?" If you have to ask that question then the answer is most probably no. Which makes me wonder why people continue to train in such things and pass it off to others has self defence. You make some excillent points and i agree that it is not practical for the majority of people(myself included) to go around training in lots of different schools. However, i beleive that for most people, the time they dedicate to training right now could be put to much better use. Instead of repeating techniques over and over that you cant even make work with a training parnter, use the time to test things, experiment. Then there will be room for a great deal of progression and you will not have to settle for less knowledge that is easy to obtain. Hope this clears up any confusion regarding my first post.

Has you stated, this could be extremely difficult. You may get lucky, but keep in mind that whilst there are similarities in each of those areas you mention, for the most part they are worlds apart. Thats certainly an option, if competition is important to you, and this school teaches the kind of competition fighting you enjoy, then stick with it. If not, find somewhere else. It depends on what you want to teach. If you want to teach a specific style then perhaps you wont have the depth of knowledge to do that with your current "mix and match" training. But who says you have to teach just one style?

If you want to find the techniques that work, watch any full contact sparring, tournaments, street fight clips. The techniques used in such clips will give you a pretty good idea of what works against a resisting opponent attacking you when and how they want.

Chuck Liddell is know for being a devastating striker in MMA. Found a couple of clips of him punching, after watching them it makes me feel sorry for Tito having to eat all those right hands in the ring :

Make the students do things that force them to think. Create new combinations of basic techniques and drill them in multiple directions and with variations etc. If the student is busy thinking what they have to do all the time this will not only be a huge benefit to their training but also wont give them enough time to get bored.

I agree 100%. Its also important for those just starting out in martial arts to clearly define their goals. Once you know what you want to achieve, its alot easier to work out what type of training will best help you reach these goals.