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The slap is certainly a good option to strike the head with. My only concern is its slightly more telegraphed than a straight line palm strike. The beauty of the palm is that it comes from below your attackers field of vision making it near impossible for them to see or react to it until its already hit.

The was a topic started a fair while ago on the subject: http://www.karateforums.com/longevity-vt12561.html?highlight=longevity Hope this info gets you started, and welcome to the forum!

Tried out a few of the techniques suggested and found most were of little use when their was a strength disadvantage. Techniques like grabbing the thumb with your free hand and trying to pull it open are far 2 telegraphed and from trying it with my girlfriend i found she couldnt even bend my thumb when i let her get a proper grip on it. Other techniques that involve grabbing your own hand and trying to pull it out still rely on a fair amount of strength to be effective. From my experience i would agree with those that mentioned distractions. And would add that the wrist grab should not be what your mainly focusing on. No matter how hard a person is grabbing your wrist, chances are its not going to hurt you beyond being irritating. For a wrist grab to acheive something there must be a follow up attached to it. This is what you need to focus on more than the grab itself. Are they going to punch you? Try to take you somewhere? Grab your shirt or throat? Etc. To escape a wrist grab(in the rare event that you are wrist grabbed, woman and children who be likely to experience this), the methods i have tested to be effective are raising your free hand into half a passive stance (see pre fight posture thread in self defence section). This will put you in a better position to deal with their follow up. While your dealing with the veerbal that will obviously be involved, if you find you cant talk your way out and calm them down your hand is in a perfect position to palm strike to the chin from under their field of vision. This can lead to any number of follow ups depending on how the attacker reacts. For those in law enforcement etc who legally are not allowed to strike. Ask yourself how likely it is for you to be wrist grabbed by someone. And what kind of follow up your likely to encounter. Most often the wrist grab will come and go quickly, and the follow up with be more important to deal with. Not to mention most martial arts schools spend lots of time teaching how to deal with strikes before they land, yet when it comes to grabs you only learn to defend once your already grabbed. If its so possible to block a lighting fast strike before it lands, why cant you stop a less dangerous slower grab attempt before it lands. Or if you are going to work on how to get out of a grab why not work how to recover from a strike after you have been hit? I think there is a need for some consistency. Enjoy.

Good point, i suppose if your option is to fall and extend your hand out like most people do resulting in broken wrists etc, or to slap, then the slap is a good skill to have.

It obviously depends on how you are falling, but instead of automatically going into the "oh no, im gunna fall over, better breakfall" defensive mindset, try doing some offensive while being taken down. Put your hand in their face, even if its just to disrupt them.(keep in mind it wont work all the time, if your about to fall straight on your head do something with your arms to lessen the impact). But in most cases you will be able to do something that will give you the advantage the moment you hit the ground. Its common to see people kind of freeze up and accept the takedown then try to work for a position when they reach the ground. It makes more sense to me to do something to put you at an advantage and keep attacking while you adjust positions to get back up. Drill it slow to start with isolating a basic tackle and looking at what you can do offensively, from their build up gradually to full out.

Nice one Patrick!

Why im hoping to have no "belt" attached.

So considering i would like you to take away the belt i already earned does the fee still apply?

Is it possible to have no belt image at all?

Definetly agreed. A trend appearing these days is that schools will train you specifically to compete. So you dont have to go out and learn the complete system of MT and then the complete system of BJJ and then mix them together. You are taught the applicable skills from each with the direct goal of using them in a ufc style competition. Also its been a long time since something "new" has been seen in the ring. If you are training for NHB these days its pretty clear what to expect from your opponent and in a way you already know your enemy, its just a matter of training hard and being better than them, not a matter of using a different style or surprising them with other skills that have not been seen.

Nice post Bushido_man, and i agree about the insurance excuse. Its pretty simple to have new students sign a form outlining the risks associated with training and put you in a legaly strong position if someone is injured while training at your school. The seminar i attended recently involved training exactly like i was talking about, it was very close to reality, and whilst their were "injuries", they were not major and were ones that are has likely to occur in any martial arts school, or any contact sport for that matter.

Really? How did the conversation go, if you dont mind me asking?

Out of interest The BB of C, do you think you would feel comfortable addressing these issues with your instructor?

Glad to hear your training is going well bushido_man96, its these little improvements that make it all worth while.

Thanks for the reply. I suppose the question is. If this skill is so easily attainable, why arnt we seeing more of it? Why arnt boxers and mma fighters training to knock their opponent over with a single block? Alot of money is at stake for these fighters so i wonder why they arent doing this?

Thats some very interesting information. The only problem i have with the "one hit, one kill" thing is how does it apply to the general public in terms of applicable self defence? Its great that Chibana could do it, im guessing Shorin Ryuu can do it also. But how does that help everyone else? If your mum asked you to teach her self defence would you say "ok lets go work on blocking really hard and striking really hard."? Changes are her power will only reach a certain point. Will that be enough to stop someone intent on attacking her? Maybe, but there are alternative ways that may increase her chances futher. Not to mention the time it takes to learn such a skill. People who want to learn self defence often do so for a reason, and usually need the skills now, not in 5 or 10 years. Dont get me wrong, its a great concept and its good to hear some people can do it, but i dont think its the answer for the majority of people.

By that logic wouldnt criminals and foreign armed forces know that many trained law enforcement, armed forces etc will stop shooting when they hear the word "cease fire" thus giving them an advantage... Not likely.

I think its fairly trivial. Jim Wagner has said some other interesting things in regards to self defence like: “When I hit someone with my fist, the last thing I worry about is injury. I can get it fixed later at the hospital.” His way of rationalising the use of closed fisted techniques to the head.

If one of your reasons for training is self defence, it would be good to see how your body will react to physical strain when your ill. However, i agree with the others, stay away from those who dont want to get sick and rest yourself up.

Yes, he is a great coach, hopefully this will give me a chance to spend more time under his guidance.

Thanks for the reply, you raise an important point and i completely agree with what your saying. Im not suggesting that a persons first lesson should the "super duper reality check" you mention. And i agree that its a gradual process that you need to build upto. However, most schools start to build up, but only to a certain point and then they stop. Once they reach a point where its a little scary they dont push any futher. Which is fine if a person wants to train for fun and fitness, but if you want to train to prepare for a real violent situation, and you dont experience the chaos and scaryness in a class room environment, thats a huge gap you need to bridge when it comes to the crunch.

This is good advice. It can be common for people to use kicking to keep distance if they lack confidence at closer ranges(i used to do it myself). If you are learning correct punching and clinching(i assume you clinch in sparring also) technique in class then the only way to bring it into use in sparring is to take a chance and try it. Like anything your not used to doing you wont be great at it to start with, but thats all part of the learning process. Let us know how it goes.

All hope may not be lost, i spoke with the trainer again today and expressed my concerns. He understood completely where im coming from and graciously offered to train me on a day when his son is doing conditioning work (requires less help from the coach), so that i will have more learning time.

That information is a timely reminder that knife defence should be a crucial part of everyones self defence training.

To prepare for self defence, its important to recreate training scenarios that resemble common situations your likely to face in your daily life. These situations will vary based on a number of variables. Your occupation, country and area you live in, gender, community status etc. Its important to look at the most likely ways you would be attacked in real life, and train for it if your goal is learning effective self defence. Alot of martial arts schools have the "self defence" tag on all of their advertising, but how many really address the realities of a violent confrontation? Most schools have a heavily technique based curriculum where progression is based on your ability to remember techniques. The so called self defence aspects are often covered only briefly: "its important to be aware, now lets do kata" or not at all. When is the last time you discussed and actually trained de-escalating a situation ortrained situational awareness WHILE de-escalating a situation? In my opinion, training to talk your way out of a situation and calm an aggressor is much more important than spending hours on any physical technique, in terms of learning self defence. I titled this post "the reality gap" for the following reason. Its impossible for your training to mirror reality completely while maintaining safety. But its possible to train alot more closely to reality than most schools do. There will always be that gap you need to bridge between training and reality, and the closer your training reflects reality to begin with, the less of a gap you will need to make up for in an actual situation. This is important because the less new information you have to deal with in a self defence situation, the better. Even little things hold significance. Clothing, footwear, surroundings, training surface. Look at a comparision: average martial arts training: Everyone wearing gi's, barefooted, on a clean obstacle free wooden floor, or even better a soft training mat covered floor. the alternative: Everyone wearing t-shirt and shorts(or jeans), shoes and socks on, uneven training surface with real obstancles in the way. Sure its easy to say "i can adapt from not wearing shoes to wearing them, its no big deal". And that may be true, but how many people have actually tried? For the ladies, put on some high heals and add some water or obstancles to the training surface. Your techniques that relied on solid grounding and that feeling of the floor under your feet suddenly have lost alot of effectivness. Even the little things like clothing close the gap between training and reality. Now look at the self defence techniques you learn, how often do you train against a partner giving you real energy and reacting to each part of your technique combination(an attacker wont just stand still after throwing one punch and let you do a 15 move combo on them. Everyone reacts). How often do you work to defend against realistic attacks you are likely to face? Wrist grabs may be common in your area, but where im from there are much more common ways people are attacked, yet the schools dont address these things, instead they all teach the: "he grabs your wrist, you do a lock them punch here, kick here, knee there." Again a comparision, defence against a 2 arm lapel grab: average martial arts training: Partner grabs your gi in a 2 arm lapel grab and while he is holding on tight, he stands still in a stance waiting for you to perform your technique and lets you do every part of the combination, even moving at times to make it easier for you. the alternative: Partner grabs your t-shirt in a 2 arm lapel grab with enough force that you are forced slightly off balance. He continues to push forward and gets right in your face. You can smell his breath, feel his knuckles digging into your chest and he is yelling that he is going to beat you up(with more colourful language). He doesnt freeze the moment you start fighting back, instead he reacts to each movement you make. Which one is closer to reality? Give it a try, look at all the techniques you have been taught to use when defending against common attacks. Find a partner and get them to do the attack with REAL energy, like someone would actually attack you. Add dialogue and attacker reaction. If the technique wont work against this training partner, what chance will it have for real? There are lots more things schools can do to bridge the gap between training and reality, these are just some ideas. Im interested in hearing opinions and ideas related to this post, and also from anyone who feels that their current training fits into the "average martial arts" category. If you choose not to reply, just ask yourself the question: If your school claims to teach effective self defence, how closely does the training mirror reality?