cross

Not sure if you all caught this on "the ultimate fighters", 2 of the contestants have a bit of a throw down minus the ring and ref. They later get kicked off the show. Interesting to see what happens when you try to do mma style fighting without the cage and throw some cement into the mix. http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=Tv8HchA1_As

I completely agree, if people want to learn fan techniques for their personal enjoyment go for it. But when they start making claims about it being effective and relivent in modern self defense practices (has some posts in this topic have suggested) then there is a problem.

http://www.brackengardens.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=384 Perhaps?

Whilst there may not be statistical evidence to suggest one way or another. The fact that you can look at any amount of news reports or victim interviews and struggle to find one that describes the victim using a martial arts technique of any kind, makes it hard for me to suggest to a person looking to learn rape prevention techniques to go to the local martial arts(not just bjj) school and give it a try. Because chances are, thats not where they will find answers. There is no doubt this student would be able to handle guys coming to your school, of the street. But handling guys on the street is a different story, chances are, unless those bjj techniques have been drilled with a-dumps invoked in the victim and role played minus the gi, minus the mats with good bad guys, its going to fall apart and she will revert back to the gross motor insticts she was born with. I dont really consider this training the psychological aspect of combat. Sure, for the first moment your grabbed, its surprising, but then its just another grappling match right? Realistic roleplaying with congruous environmental, verbal and physical methods applied is my idea of psychological training.

I agree about the controlling position. Has i said above: im just yet to see many techniques beyond the basic positioning that provides much help to those attempting to survive a real situation. Im not suggesting that people forget about positioning on the ground and just go for the "dirty tactics" has you call them. Using these tactics in conjunction with positioning and a rapid delivery system such as the shredder(more info at https://www.senshido.com), will provide a great chance of escape has opposed to trying to wrestle the guy. In regards to the substance abuse comment: If you are tickling the guys skull through his eye socket with your thumb, no substance is going to stop him from going blind. Try to armbar him however, and maybe pop his elbow, thats a good way to make him more annoyed.

Sure, its possible, everyone could carry around extendable batons also. But the weapon of choice on the street these days is a blade of some variety, not a fan. And unless a martial artist is carrying his fan all the time then training it for self defense purposes is pointless.

Whats the theory behind that?

What information are you basing that statment on? Taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3244709.stm : "Evidence shows knife seizures are on the increase. The number of people convicted of carrying a blade in public rose from 2,559 in 1995 to 3,570 in 2000, according to the Home Office." Taken from http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000053AB.htm : "1 in 3 Glasgow teenagers carry knives'" So wheres the fan data?

The same can be said for bjj. How often in training are arms actually broken, shoulders and knees popped etc? It doesnt happen, but the transition from making the person tap to snapping the joint isnt that much. Its similar with the tactics i mentioned: Has i posted in another thread Here: "Its possible to train most things, within reason and with a few modifications. The different between brushing your hands across someones eyes and digging your fingers in is very slight. The difference between holding onto someones ear or ripping it off is very slight. The difference between driving a punching into someones chest or driving it into their throat is very slight. The difference between palmstriking someone in the face wearing protection at 75% power or hitting someone with no protection at 100% power is very slight. Add a full face hockey style helmet or motorbike helmet and you can simulate much better with gripping the plastic etc in place of gouging. Training has close as possible to reality is important if the thing your preparing for is reality. Anything less simply isnt going to cut it when things turn real." You can pinch, spit, scream, without any modification.

Id say alot of martial artists think they are of higher moral standard etc just because they train, but most dont actually do anything within their lives to reflect it. I dont think what you mentioned has alot to do with martial arts though, rather any genuine person would see a problem and do something about the bar thing you mentioned.

I disagree. Read the countless news reports you can find online regarding woman who have survived rape. None of the reports list the women using any kind of martial arts related technique. Its always biting, scratching, spitting, screaming, trying to rip the guys eyes out etc. A rape is possibly one of the most psychologically devastating things a woman could face. Under such conditions what are the chances they would retain the ability and have the presence of mind to pull a sweep and armbar on the guy? Unless of course they live and breath bjj like Kyra Gracie, who would be an exception, not the rule. Its far easier to take the womans existing instincts and fine tune them. I.e. Put your hand in their face and start ripping. Once again, trying to teach your average woman boxing techniques is a good formula for a broken hand and an even more annoyed attacker. Can you picture a 50 year old woman delivering knock out power with a 1-2 combo on a physically much larger attacker? especially from the close range at which a rape(or any attack for that matter) occurs? Im not saying bjj is useless for self defense, a solid knowledge of ground work is key for increasing your chances of surviving a self defense situation, im just yet to see many techniques beyond the basic positioning that provides much help to those attempting to survive a real situation. I agree with you here, they great thing about bjj is the high level of intensity you can train at without causing serious injury. Its still lacking in alot of areas when it comes to self defense, in my opinion anyway.

How many people carry a fan with them everywhere they go and practice drawing it from a concealed location in their normal clothes under high stress situations?

I agree the transitions are useful. But marching up and down the hall doing the stances in a static manner is no way to learn them. Trying to learn transitional positions by doing static stances is like trying to learn to drive with the car parked in the driveway the whole time.

Took a look around his site, watched a few of the clips including "womens ground defense". Not sure how guillotines and armbars are going help a woman survive an attack. But interesting article non the less.

When i was doing karate we all practiced 5 or 6 different stances in basics, then when it came to sparring or partner work, everyone used a boxing stance. The way i see it, cut out the wasted time and stop training it unless its going to be useful.

Agreed. That is one thing I like about the resistance in the brief grappling sessions that my friend and I have. The high emotion is not there, but the resistance is. We also try to work some of that stuff into our Defensive Tactics and Combat Hapkido workouts. I am going to suggest to my partners that we start to work on more of it, too. Definitely. If you are aiming at self defense its important to work in the emotional aspects also. This is where role playing works great. Because you can have all the techniques in the world, but if you freeze the moment someone goes agro at you or you start feeling fear and intimidation your going to be in trouble.

This one I dissagree with. I do think that some students would be overwhelemed, but that's them and their issues. Some people would absorb the type of calm training as a lesson in keeping your mind clear when faced with a high-intensity confrontation. Which most people know and agree is a good idea. Unfortunately, I would have to agree with this concept for the most part. If you never feel contact, or make contact, or experience a higher (not necessarily the same level of fighting) intensity, then it will be tough to know how to deal with it in a situation. I agree with bushido_man96 on this one. Its one thing to say "we train to stay calm in high-intensity situations". But until you actually are putting yourself in high-intensity situations like contact sparring, you are only theorizing about how to deal with the emotions experienced.

Once again it depends on the context of the situation. I wont say that stepping back is wrong, just that there are more favourable things to do. But if you have to step back because the situation forces you to for whatever reason then thats where you have to work from. But ideally you should close the distance the moment you get the chance. Maintaining distance gives more chance to them, not you. Whilst i agree with you for the most part, the only thing i see that has changed is some of the older material(this applies to hand to hand also) focuses on the "dual" mentality of 2 guys squaring off outside a bar and going for it like a sparring match. The reality is, however, that a guy attacking you with a knife isnt going to stand back taking delicate little slashes at you, they are going to be trying to get close enough to get one hand on you so you cant move whilst they are pumping you with the knife in the other hand.

Something i forgot to add. You have to look at the context of the situation, e.g. how did a guy with a knife in each hand end up standing in front of you about to cut you up? Unless he walks up with both knives already drawn, he has to get them from somewhere. At any time during a threatening situation you see the other person reaching for their pockets or under their shirt etc, its a pretty good indication that they are reaching for a weapon and thats when you should move to end the confrontation, BEFORE they pull the weapon out.

Trying to keep distance or going toe-to-toe are 2 of the worst things you can do against a knife. Unless you are far enough away to start running, then you need to close distance asap and terminate the opponent. If you try to maintain distance and step back when he takes a slash at you, all your doing is giving them another chance to move forward and take another slash. So what do you do against someone with 2 knives? Short of running, throwing stuff at them, finding a weapon of your own. Your best bet is to minimise the amount of cuts you get and the location of the cuts, and follow the principles of good edged weapon defense: 1. Secure the weapon hand(s) 2. Clear your body 3. Neutralize the attacker. If you only have the option of securing one weapon hand make sure you are attacking them so much that they dont even think of using the other weapon. Also keep in mind there is no set "when he does this slash you do that block and disarm technique" that is going to help you much due to the dynamic nature of a knife attack. If you ever find yourself against a guy with 2 knives for real, do what you can to survive. The technique you use is incidental.

In any self defense situation, the only type of "ground fighting" you should be doing is the kind that allows you to get into a position of advantage and return to your feet ASAP. Self defense situations are not has clean cut as most people make out. You cant really tell weather you are involved in a 1-on-1, multiple attacker, weapon, situation until its over. For a short time you might be fighting off 1 guy, but there is a good chance he has friends, so if you assume he doesnt and take him to the ground, then you run into problems when his friends come and start stomping you.

There are loads of instructional videos, articles, books etc available on the internet. Some you will have to pay for, but most stuff you will find free if you look hard enough and are willing to settle for certain things. Once you work out exactly what you want to learn, start searching. If you need help finding something there are plenty of people on the forum who im sure would point you in the right direction. But make sure you have searched for yourself first. Once suggestion i will make for home training is to get yourself a heavy bag asap. There are almost endless things you can do with a heavy bag apart from punching it, that will aid you in training.

Perhaps the delivery system is the problem in karate. If you look at a typical muay thai school, people spend a very short time learning each technique and then it is practiced without modification in various ways. In shadowboxing, on heavy bags and pads, and then in contact sparring. Then look at a typical karate school, people spend a large part of the class marching up and down the hall doing single techniques in the air, then sometimes they will hit a bag with modified technique, then spend another chunk doing techniques in kata, and finally do some non-contact point sparring, or freestyle sparring that ends up looking like sloppy kickboxing anyway. Im not saying that happens at every single karate school in the world, but you look at the majority and thats what you will find.

I agree it comes down to the training methods. If you look at the majority of shotokan schools, the training methods dont help you deal with full out attacks. Even those that do deal with full out attackers most often are only working against someone attacking them "full out" with shotokan techniques and tactics.

The main reason shotokan doesnt function against fully resisting attackers is the training methods used. The guy in the video is probably a champion of point fighting and 5 step sparring, but at no point in training would he have dealt with "a guy trying to take you out via knockout or submission".