cross

I suppose when the emphasis is placed on getting a good workout, proper boxing technique is not stressed to greatly. I dont see a problem with it if all they are teaching is exercise.

There is no need to rush these things. Enjoy your vacation!

Physical fitness is in no way a requirement for being able to defend yourself, nor is martial arts training. Otherwise how would people with no training or a high level of fitness have been able to defend themselves successfully so many times in the past? Thats not to say that you shouldnt work on it. Like anything, being fit will definitely be a huge advantage, not only in defending yourself, but having a long and healthy life. With that in mind, i dont think its a "requirement" for self defense, nor are any of the other things on the list. Sure they all help, but when it comes down to it, the need to survive is whats going to count most.

I agree 100%. Like ive said many times before, throw the punch how you actually will be using it and develop the body mechanics for how it will be applied. Dont learn the body mechanics of pulling the hand to the hip when you are going to modify it later anyway.

I agree with most of bushido_man96's comments. Also just wanted to add that many instructors are now using terms like "protective offense" or "self protection", i personally would rather use the term self protection, has opposed to self defense.

Hey Baron, Thanks for the reply. I completely agree with you here. Awareness is key, using specific drills to practice it and doing it daily when you enter a building etc makes it alot easier to retain during high stress situations also. I find palm strikes to be a more applicable striking option over punching in the majority of cases for the following reasons: 1. Far less chance of damage to your own hand. 2. A punch is just a punch, where a palm strike can follow on to a grab, rake, trap, finger jab etc very easily. 3. Maintaining distance, has you mention, would not be a favored option in the vast majority of situations. Get in close, terminate, and get away is the tactic of choice for me anyway. Palm striking aids this, because it almost draws you towards the attacker. 4. If you stand back and attempt to delivery fine motor based punching (boxing style punches etc) they become far 2 sloppy and heavily telegraphed. Not to mention the situation turns into a slugfest and unless you can outpunch them, the odds are stacked against you. Not to mention, its far easier for the attacker to land a lucky punch and stun you has opposed to them having to deal with you in close quarters. Just my thoughts, Cross.

No problems, i understand its difficult to describe physical movements via text, alot easier to see it.

Also check the one entitled "hicks law" to see a generic gross motor response off the flinch to a number of different attacks. This is the jamming and reflexive response i talk about.

I posted this link previously that features tony blauer providing a comparison between a fine and gross motor tactic. It can be found at: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html#Combatives The clip is called "Intro to the Flinch, Tony Blauer..." Whilst traditional blocks may at first glance seem to be gross motor skill in nature because they dont require alot of skill or strength etc to perform. When you look at the full picture they require quiet alot of timing to make work because you can either be late or early with them, and they are side specific has described in the clip.

That all reads very well and makes alot of sense on paper. But when it comes to application and the reality of doing these techniques full out. They rarely work has trained and thats why you see people wildly waving their arms around trying to protect themselves.

I completely agree. Thats what my post a while back called "The Reality Gap" was all about. And in my opinion its far more realistic to be aware that when you are completely surprised you will flinch, and when you are in a high stress situation you will lose access to fine motor skills and let your training reflect that, instead of trying to work against what is going to happen. In this way, your training will be based on tactics that work from a flinch and include predominently gross motor skills, has opposed to assuming you will be perfectly aware of everything thats happening and be able to pull of a fairly specific block and counter with fine motor based techniques.

I agree with what bushido_man96 is saying. Its much more important to provide positive feedback to your students. If you always negatively re-inforce the mistakes people make they will continue to make them or have reduced performace due to fear of doing something wrong.

This type of training would probably produce people very skilled within the art they practice, but how many people in this day and age would put up with such training?

Thats why its far more practical to be aware that the a-dump will occur and prepare for that rather than attempt to by-pass it, which is near impossible unless you have been involved in so many life threatening situations and survived that you no longer fear such things, even then the element of surprise is always present and can cause an a-dump. So for the average joe who cant spend 5 days a week training trying to by-pass the a-dump is far from practical.

Whilst its quiet common to use your muscles through a full range of motion, its rare to perform a technique has practiced traditionally through its full range of motion. The only thing that seems to be used is the last few moments of the movement. So why not train in that part and reduce the movements you do for no reason and help prevent bad habits from forming? Look at how boxers are taught to punch, the basic punch is no different from how its used in the ring, they dont start with the hand at the hip to learn to use certain muscles, the start with the hand where it starts for real and do that each time to get better at the actual movement, not a non used variation of it.

Training with chambered arms develops muscle memory for chambering your arm, how that is useful i still dont understand.

When you compare the situation of a friend trying to kick you in the knee and a complete stranger who is physically larger than you who is intent on ripping your head off, or slice you to pieces with a blade, you begin to understand that unless the techniques you perform are thoroughly pressure tested, the chances of you performing them under such stress are slim to none.

Interesting discussion. I find it strange that people continue to state that traditional karate blocks are are highly practical way of defending against strikes. Firstly, these techniques are fairly attack specific. So you need to be able to interpret what is coming at you while its in motion. To block a punch to the face, you use a rising block, but you wont know its a punch to the face until they are already at least half way through doing the punch, and thats if you are able to see it at all. Also, the idea that a block is a strike, or that you should be blocking has hard has you strike doesnt make sense when you consider that the attacker is already far ahead of you because they are acting, and all you can do is react to whats coming at you, this doesnt leave you with a great deal of time to see what they are throwing, choose the appropriate technique, and then execute it hard, all within the short space you have left before you get hit. If you want to talk about the best ways to defend against strikes, look at people who do it on a regular basis. Boxers, kickboxers, MMA guys, all use movement and covering far more than any other type of defensive technique and it saves them from getting knocked out time and time again. RBSD instructors the world over recommend jamming and various types of covers, because rather than trying to defend against a specific technique coming at you, you have a much greater chance of dealing with the energy coming towards you regardless of the end result. And has for the "dont pull your hand to the hip when you do it for real" thing. I never really understood this when i did karate. Why train one way and the do something that is the complete opposite when you use it for real? There is always the argument that it teaches hip rotation and use of certain muscles etc. But the way i see it, if your hand is going to be up when you actually do the technique, then train that way from the start and learn the best way to do the technique from the position it will actually be used.

Its scientifically proven that under high stress situations cognitive processessing goes out the window. This includes the use of fine motor skills controlled by the frontal part of the brain. Most peoples training either uses techniques that are 2 fine motor skill based to be effective under this high stress, or they do train gross motor skill tactics but dont train at the intensity to have used the skills when the mid brain is controlling the bodies reactions. The only time you regain access to your fine motor skills is when the shift has been made from prey to predator and you no longer feel threatened. This can only occur after you have used gross motor skills to injure the attacker to some extent.

If that were the case, you would see very different techniques used by the little guys compared to the guys in the heavier weight divisions. The "moves" they use are the ones that have been proven to work time and time again, the is no guess work involved.

Would depend on the school i suppose, but considering kyokushin has taken alot of influence from muay thai in recent years the shin is fairly likely, for low line kicks anyway.

Has you mentioned, ego plays a big factor in most attacks. If people are provoked verbally, then attacks that could normally be avoided will occur. Also its common for attacks to occur if a person wants something e.g. money, possessions, etc. Finally, alcohol and drug use plays a large part in alot of attacks also. So much so that in our part of town the police have recently set up a unit that specifically targets licensed venues in an effort to reduce alcohol fueled violence and crimes.

Hey Givnal, Welcome to the forum. Decent compared to who? Will you be a world champion? Probably not, but then again, not many people are. Doing something to improve your situation (weather it be physical or mental) is more important i think. Basically i wouldnt worry so much about how good you might be, how many times you get hit in sparring, or what belt you have. If you are having fun and enjoying yourself whilst keeping fit, then its well worth the effort in my opinion. Best of luck with your training.

Its alot harder to do a joint lock from a full speed full power punch than you might think. Im not saying it cant happen, just that it would be near impossible unless the other guy is throwing extremely slow and sloppy punches, thats probably why its not seen in mma.

Iain Abernethy uses a similar concept called "setting datums" i beleive.