Ueshirokarate

http://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf I am sure they are pretty similar around the world. I view the world of judo as a completely different animal than that of karate. In the style of karate I practice, we don't really have tournaments/competitions, etc. The founder Shoshin Nagmine was vehemently opposed to them. Thanks for posting this. Very helpful. With all this in mind, using tournament performances as a guage of rank, it can put a hamper on the rank one is capable of attaining. Should an inability to be competitive be a standard regarded in rank promotions? I see Judo as more a sport/competition focused art, so it makes perfect sense for Judo. I think it would also make sense for a karate style that is a sport karate focused style. For traditional martial arts like Japanese Jujitsu and styles of karate like Matsubayashi where the focus is more perfecting technique and competing with oneself, ranking this way makes no sense.

http://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf I am sure they are pretty similar around the world. I view the world of judo as a completely different animal than that of karate. In the style of karate I practice, we don't really have tournaments/competitions, etc. The founder Shoshin Nagmine was vehemently opposed to them.

It is pretty simple and straight forward to me. Bullying is offensive and aggressive behavior. From the sounds of it, this has been going on for some time and the kid just had enough. I would want to find out exactly what happened. From a martial arts perspective, avoidance of conflict is optimal. However, we are talking about young kids and pretty much the law of the jungle when adults aren't around. I remember these years all too well. If the child waited until a physical action by the bully and then responded, well then it is all on the bully. I see no fault on the part of the student at all. If the student took physical action first, then that is another matter. That said, in Matsubayashi (and I am sure in a lot of other styles), we learn to block things and the blocks are painful to the attacker. They should be sufficient to deter most from further action and I would focus my young students upon such defensive tactics. As someone mentioned earlier, knocking out someone can be very dangerous and we want our students to understand that as martial artists we have many tools at our disposal and we need to reserve ourselves as much as possible.

From a martial arts standpoint, your primary training concern should be strength and performance. It seems more like an aesthetic question you are asking. Can you clarify your goals and rational behind the question for the thread?

It is a good read and I learned some stuff from it. However, I don't like the way he slams Kyan and infers that Shotokan is superior to Kyan's lineage arts and more like the original arts of Itosu. The author conveniently leaves out Kenwa Mabuni (Shito Ryu) who like Gichin Funikoshi, was also a student of Itosu. Shito's Shuri-te katas are remarkably similar to the katas in Matsubayashi I study, which to me throws out the whimsicalness theory of Kyan's changing karate. I think it could have been written without knocking a man he doesn't know anything about. Heck, if what he was said is true about Kyan being one of the most trained martial artists in history, don't you think it should spark interest in what he taught, rather than revulsion to the man's personal life?

I still think that you shouldn't be allowed to "test", unless you have earned the next rank on the deck. Those students who come several times a week and sweat it out to the best of their ability, should progress up the ranks. I believe that if there are "slackers" on the deck, then the instructor isn't doing their job. That said, I don't really put to much weight in "rank". There are so many styles, schools and with them standards. The only way anyone will ever impress me is by sharing their knowledge or showing it on the deck. I have seen students with serious physical challenges give it their all week in and week out. They will never be Bruce Lee: However, they certainly earned their rank IMHO.

I am going to give a slightly different take. I wouldn't give up Goju-Ryu and start chasing other styles. I would suggest that you keep up with Goju-Ryu and use your new found MMA skills to dig deeper in Goju-Ryu. There is so much the katas can teach you as a martial artist and traditional training is tradition for a reason.

Karate, just like real Japanese Jiu Jitsu was a complete martial art with throws, joint locks, kicks, punches, ground wrestling, neck breaking, etc, etc. Hard to be a real martial art and not know what to do when you get thrown on the ground and jumped on top of. Do you have the Pinan katas in your system? If so, think of Pinan Godan, there is a sequence at the end where you are throwing someone on the ground and breaking their neck. It holds all the elements from striking to throwing to ground technique.

That is awesome. Doing those lifts will make you a very feared karatka.

True, but also for having a great product that has show itself to be effective in multiple setting many times. Like more Machitas in the UFC? I agree with tallgeese's assesment here. BJJ made its mark when Royce was winning. More Machidas wouldn't hurt Karate's cause at all. We probably wouldn't even be talking about karate if it weren't for Motubu and his victory in a match like UFC of its day. The irony is rich.

I agree, unless you find a karate school that teaches throws and ground work at the same level as a Judo school, you will never really get it enough to use it. Randori type work is critical. Personally I think traditional Karate schools and traditional Judo schools should team up. Doing so en masse would be a potent force against the Muay Thai/BBJ and MMA Mcdojos out there. Let's face it, Judo dropped what Karate gives and Karate for the most part, dropped what Judo offers. They really are the perfect match in my view.

Sorry Ueshiro, I don't know your location and I'm old school net enough that I tend not to pry. But, go herehttp://www.thearma.org/ and see if you can find a training group. Even if there isn't one listed where you are, you used to be able to just e-mail the groups and they would put you in touch with someone close by. Nearest organized group was 2 hours from home back when I checked into things last. But, you may be luckier than I was and find someone close by. No problem. I couldn't find a link on the website for a study group. Anyway, I really wouldn't have the time to study, but it would be nice to see it.

If you are near Santa Cruz and want to explore authentic Okinawan Karate: http://matsubayashi-ryu.com/content/california-dojos There are also some in California here, not sure exactly where: http://shorin-ryu.com/dojo-list/

I don't know, my judo experience has really opened the door for me on so many of these moves. After all, the human body can only grab and throw another human body in so many ways. Your kata is either in sync with one of them or it isn't.

True, but also for having a great product that has show itself to be effective in multiple setting many times. Like more Machitas in the UFC?

Reenactment isn't my thing either. However, studying hand to hand combat most definitely is. Wish there was a place near me.

Would love to study them. Has anyone here done so? http://www.aemma.org/training/armour/armour_top.htm

The real question should be, how do we make karate respected and popular again? Just yesterday I was saying how my son takes karate to a neighborhood kid. He almost immediately said he wants to take BJJ. My hat's off to the Gracies for their amazing marketing.

Look at :30 in the Matsubayashi Passai. :37 which is the same move as in our Pinan Godan To me these are obvious throws. Here is our Pinan Godan (:26): The opening moves of our Pinan Shodan and Pinan Yondan could easily be changed into a Otoshi: Judo Otoshi Pinan Shodan There are so many such examples. Speaking of Naihanchi Shodan, our version is very close to what you linked. However there is more leg action: Sweep and throw after sweep and throw in that kata. Also look at Fukyugata Ni. This kata is interesting in that it was composed by Chojin Miyagi. Slight differences between the styles, but nothing dramatic as in Wado vs. Shotokan: There are throw applications on almost every move of this kata.

Once again, almost identical to Matsubayashi, as the weight is dropped into neko ashi dachi. Our whole style comes down to whipping movements starting in being rooted to the deck through the hara and into the hands. Much like a whip's power starting in the hand and being magnified through the whip into the tip of the whip. Does that makes sense? I would also add that the ending sequence in Wado is also very much like Matsubayashi, in that while the kata is downward shuto-uke, the hidden technique for the kata learned as one advances is a shuto-zuke rearward most hand. To me both katas look quite different on the surface, but I do believe that applications are all the same or very, close.

Never mind, I didn't watch the video before I asked the question. That video is basically bunkai and the application is pretty much identical to the application of Matsubayashi, in that you are attacking the tori's forearm. By the way, we twist our forarms like you in our techniques, even in this opening move (hard to see it as Sindt is so darn fast). The hammer fist ideally targets forearm pressure points. The first part of the movement breaks a hold in our kata, but we are both delivering very similar attacks.

Well we will have to agree to disagree - I see them as fundamental differences, but that aside... I have attached a copy of a friend of mine performing the "keisetsu" for the first technique along with others in the kata. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykjX_GPIhkg&feature=player_embedded Yes wado has two tetsui ukes. Sojobo What is the application of that opening move in Wado?

Wow, there is a fire hose of information here and yes you make sound points. I still see these as more stylistic differences than fundamental ones. I think what would be most helpful for me, would be to understand the differences from an application stand point. For example, let's just take that first technique. Please look at the Matsubayashi version's opening move it is into neko ashi-dachi: All three have a hammer fist down. From what I see, Matsubayashi and Wado have two, Shotokan only once. However, both Shotokan and Wado differ from left to right, whereas Matsubayahsi has mirrored the techniques. While I am very technical when studying my particular style, I do look at one style to a another in much looser terms. Therefore, where you see major difference, I see parallel paths with slightly different roads. Our bunkai on this opening move, is that someone just grabbed your left arm. In one move you are breaking free from the hold and striking the forearm of the tori. The Shotokan version looks like just a standard down block to the left. To me it makes the Wado version and the Matsubayashi version much closer than the Shotokan is to either (in terms of the opening move).

Looking forward to it.

I agree we have to study other arts for a variety of reason. First of which that grappling has pretty much been removed in most karate systems and secondly it is proper strategy to study your opponents. I'll look at these links. Thanks for posting. Matsubayashi Passai: