Wastelander

Used can be a bit tricky--your best bet is still going to be eBay, as Zaine mentions. New is easier, of course. I was going to suggest the DVDs I made with my late Sensei, but it appears the folks running his dojo, now, have removed them from Amazon so you can't buy them, anymore. If you search YouTube for "Waza Wednesday," you'll find a lot of the freely-available stuff that we made, though. Someone has also put the entirety of Nakazato Shugoro's karate kata video on YouTube, so you can watch the kata being performed, if nothing else.

Welcome to the forum!

I'm not sure if it helps, now, but I did get a bit of clarification on the kyusho/chibudi component. The way it was approached with me seems to be the way it's always been done in KishimotoDi--according to one of Kishimoto Soko's students, the idea of specific points and meridians was "preserved in Japanese jujutsu systems," and that particular student brought them into his teaching. Prior to that, it was just a "hit here and it hurts more" kind of approach.

In my old organization, when visiting the honbu dojo on Okinawa, it was standard practice for the highest ranking member of the visiting group to pass an envelope of money to the head of the organization. As far as I know, that was to pay membership dues and rank certification fees since the last visit, but it's possible there was more--it was above my pay grade to have more info than that. Everyone else just gave omiyage that were unique or indicative of where they came from.

Well, for clarity, I'll say that I don't technically have a connection to Motobu-Ryu, aside from the fact that I practice Motobu Udundi's Shuri Sanchin, which is part of the Bugeikan curriculum. I have done a lot of research, however, and definitely learned kakedameshi in my training, although not necessarily by that name. Kakedameshi is, without a doubt, my favorite way to spar. I definitely see value in other forms of sparring, though, and I do have students engage in them, as my late Sensei did; kickboxing-style, MMA-style, striker vs grappler, puncher vs kicker, grappling-only, grappling with strikes, clinch sparring, "kata randori," "Bully Sparring," scenario exercises, etc. Personally, I think all of these types of sparring have value, but they all have more value when they are approached as training methods, rather than as end goals, which is how most modern karate schools treat sparring. In my experience, kakedameshi can be approached in (essentially) two ways. One method is more-or-less what you see Bruce Lee do in Enter The Dragon--two people crossing the arms at the wrist and trying to attack each other from that position before the other can react or counter. This is, by all accounts, how Motobu Choki challenged Funakoshi Gichin in Tokyo, when he said that "to strike him would be too much," and instead threw Funakoshi to the ground with wrist locks several times. That isn't to say that Motobu didn't engage in other forms of kakedameshi, though, and we know that he engaged in other types of sparring, such as when he sparred with Matsumora Kosaku, and bloodied his teeth. Nagamine Shoshin, who trained with Motobu, described kakedameshi is being more like "very aggressive" Chinese tuishou (pushing hands) competitions, which included striking and locking. For those who don't know how tuishou is done, the competitors start with either both hands crossed at the wrists, or one hand crossed (as in kakie) with the other on their opponent's elbow, and they begin by moving their arms around, staying connected, before attempting to throw each other. Maeshiro Morinobu, who is still actively teaching on Okinawa, approaches it this way. This second approach is my preference, personally, as well. The benefits of this sort of sparring, over others, would be the enforcement of close-range engagement and the development of tactile sensitivity and muchimidi. It is, IMO, the best format for exploring and pressure-testing kata applications before putting them into context through things like "kata randori," "Bully Sparring," and scenario exercises.

The only times that I consider live blade work to be reasonable are solo practice, cutting practice, and careful partnered training in armor (eg. HEMA). In solo practice, it forces you to be very aware of the blade, and really cements the seriousness of blade work. In cutting, you obviously need a sharp edge to be able to cut your targets, but this also ties into solo practice. In HEMA, there are a number of techniques that are intended to be worked from "the bind," which is when two blades are physically crossed with each other (sort of like kakie), but blunt weapons don't "stick" to each other the way sharp ones do, because the edges can't bite into each other, so it simply isn't possible to effectively train those methods with blunt blades. The use of armor is pretty standard, though, and care is still taken to avoid accidents.

interesting, and thanks for the comment. yes covid and the shutdown was hard. I am in kind of the same boat as you, was getting everything ready to jump in full bore and had to put it on hold for a minute. hoping now is the time to start getting it all back on track....now everything is back up and running and im just wondering what could be done to expand a little as far as variety and quality of class, and what some people might would like added to add a little extra to the routine. are you still hoping to move into a commercial bldg and build a larger class base?, or is the home location enough? has having adult classes at 5:30 been convenient? I always had a hard time getting adults in that early due to work schedules and such?..... thank you and good luck with your plans Well, I definitely intend to eventually move into a commercial building, but I figure I will start up the group classes in my home dojo, first, and once I outgrow that, upgrade. Private lessons at 5:30 or 6pm have certainly been my most popular times for adults and older teens, so it stands to reason that group classes at those times would fit, as well. When I have run group classes, in the past, I have always started with warm-ups that progressively become actual short workouts. For example; start with simple mobility warm-ups, and maybe some jumping jacks or jogging laps, then some groundwork like bridging, shrimping, or sit-outs, then calisthenics like push-ups, sit-ups, or lunges, then something a bit more intense, like using hojo undo kigu (supplementary training tools), sprinting, or bagwork. Sometimes, I would also throw in tactile sensitivity drills, as well, or body conditioning, if the right people were in class. After that, I generally have them work a bit of solo kata. Occasionally, the class would be focused on working through all the kata that people know, but I tend to prefer having them work just whichever kata I'm going to be pulling material from in that class. Once we've gone through the kata a couple times, to make sure people are getting their structure and mechanics down, I have them pair up to work drills based on practical applications of movements from the kata they were just working. Sometimes, I would have them work the applications off of realistic attacks, and sometimes I would have them work off of platform drills, like kakie, parry-pass, block-pass-check/hubud-lubud, or the 360 Defense drill. Then, we're set for some type of sparring. I try to mix this up pretty regularly, because it's important to get a well-rounded sparring experience, and I find that it helps keep people from trying to just get good at sparring for the sake of sparring, instead of using it as a tool for learning and testing. Kakedameshi, "Bully Sparring," kickboxing-style, MMA-style, grappling, grappler vs striker, puncher vs kicker, someone secretly has a training knife, 2 vs 1, self-defense scenarios, etc. I have gotten some complaints that my classes are too rough, on occasion, but the majority of my adult students have been happy with them, and boredom is very rarely an issue. Based on student questions, I do occasionally delve into karate history, or finer points on how to apply certain techniques and why, and I'm sure that's boring for some, but it's good to squeeze some of that in, anyway, and nobody has actually complained about it.

COVID has made this a complicated situation, because I was supposed to open for group classes in April of 2020, but that obviously didn't happen, and I've only been running private lessons since then. My intent, however, is to run 45 minute classes for children (4:30-5:15pm) and 90 minute classes for adults (5:30-7pm), 3 times per week. I will be keeping classes small, for a while, as COVID lost me my chance at a commercial space and I'm teaching out of my home dojo, but that means that I don't really have to worry about breaking up classes by level. I also intend to incorporate sparring into most sessions, with the occasional session being fully-focused on sparring. Of course, the types of sparring vary.

I'll do my best to address your questions, but I will readily admit that I still have plenty to learn. While I'm one of very few people to have learned all 4 kata, I'm only cleared to teach 3 of them, so far, so I definitely have gaps to fill. Essentially, yes, but because the style has been preserved by an organization that also teaches other systems, it is pretty typical for practitioners to work additional material. The organization requires members to know Shuri Sanchin, for example, and many pick up Yamanni-Ryu bojutsu. The KishimotoDi material, by itself, however, is a pretty well-rounded collection, just within its four kata--at least, from an unarmed perspective. As I recall, Kishimoto Soko was skilled with bo and sai, but didn't teach them, which wasn't terribly uncommon for the time, so his students learned kobudo elsewhere. I would say it has a decent combination of the two, but there is certainly a lean toward grappling methods. Honestly, that is the case for all of the kata--there are definitely strikes involved, but they tend to be considered the "mean" options . As I have already learned some kyusho/chibudi from my Shorin-Ryu instructor, my KishimotoDi instructor hasn't really gone into it with me, but there are certainly applications from the kata that you are expected to use in conjunction with kyusho/chibudi. Striking the philtrum with the ipponken in Naihanchi, for example, or attacking the vagus nerve with the forearm, or kicking the sartorial nerve in the leg, or digging into the nerves between the knuckles when applying locks to the fingers (oral legend says that Kishimoto Soko liked to parry people's punches so that his ipponken hit between their knuckles, actually, but we all know how such legends can be). I don't generally see Okinawan arts are "pure," but as far as we know, there was no direct Chinese martial arts influence from "Bushi" Tachimura on. Given that, as we understand it, he trained with "Tode" Sakugawa, however, it stands to reason that there was an older Chinese influence involved--after all, how does when get the nickname "Chinese/Tang hand," without having any experience in Chinese martial arts? Plus, there's the general belief that Sakugawa trained either directly with the Chinese official known as "Kusanku," or indirectly through the Yara family of Chatan. Additionally, "Bushi" Tachimura's great or great-great grandfather (I'm not 100% sure which) was actually made some sort of royal enquiry clerk for the Sapposhi of 1756, which is the same one that the famous Kusanku was a member of. Not entirely sure what an "enquiry clerk" does, but he did receive gifts of calligraphy from the chief and vice envoys of China. Both Chinese and Japanese cultures and martial arts have been integrated into Okinawa for so long that it's hard to identify a clear delineation for when those influences came and went. The Bugeikan, which is the headquarters of KishimotoDi, also teaches Motobu Udundi, and while there are some similarities, I feel that they are fairly distinct arts--at least, in my limited experience with Motobu Udundi. They both have the use of body movement instead of hip rotation for power generation, and an emphasis on entering, certainly. That came about because of some unscrupulous individuals in more modern times. People started recording videos of demonstrations of the kata, and then trying to learn them from the videos and claim they knew the system, when in fact they had no idea what they were doing, which reflected poorly on the people who did. "Demonstration versions" for Passai and Kusanku were developed so that it would be easy to point out who had and who had not actually received proper training, and no one was supposed to make videos publicly available of either of those two kata. Now, Kusanku is okay, but Higa Kiyohiko Sensei still wants Tachimura no Passai kept offline. Nothing was hidden from students, and as far as I'm aware, you don't have to be a particularly special "inside student" to receive "secrets" of KishimotoDi--my instructor even taught some at a seminar back in 2020 that he asked to keep out of any videos or descriptions posted online, so I think it just comes down to legitimate in-person training. Higa Sensei's requirements for joining the Bugeikan are "learn Shuri Sanchin and don't lie about what you do or where you learned it." We had originally planned on a US/Mexico tour for Ulf Karlsson Shihan in 2023, but with COVID we are bumping it to 2024, so we haven't purchased tickets and set dates, just yet, but probably March-April of that year. I'm always happy to teach seminars, myself, but that can be discussed privately

Put a "game" at the end, and tell them they won't get to play it if they misbehave. Popular ones I've used, in the past, have been "Bulldog" (basically freeze tag, but the person who is It is on all fours, and to be unfrozen, someone has to kick your outstretched hand), "Artillery" (throw pads at them that they have to punch out of the air), "Bunny Rabbit Sumo" (they squat all the way down and can only push on each others' hands to knock each other over), and "Lightsaber Duels" (point fighting with Chanbara swords). I would usually put the obstacle course at the very beginning, as a warm up. And try to have them doing partnered basics more than solo basics, because then they have to help each other. You can also just sit the offending students out off to the side, and explain to their parents that they are being disruptive and disrespectful, if it comes down to it. Martial arts can help build discipline, but the parents need to support it, too.

Ah! Thanks for that! That pricing is actually pretty incredible! Most places I have been getting quotes from is well in excess of $200. Do you mind me asking how many your order was? That and also the size of the patch seems to be the two big "kickers" here. I did find a company called Netpro that I might end up going with. They are indicating your level of pricing and they can get them here within the timeframe I need them by. They are based out of China. We will see how it goes. I did, however, find a company called ColorPatch. They don't do embroidery. It is a dying process. According to what they are saying, it is longer lasting (even on a martial arts gi that gets washed alot) and the detail of the patch is greater. AND...the price is about half what has been quotes me...even with very small runs. I may end up ordering some from them just to see what they do look like as they have me curious about the process now. I am off to check out your recommendation now. As always, you are a gentleman and a scholar! Thank you. I ordered 100, IIRC, and they are 2in patches, with only one color besides black and white. Since the backing of the patch is white, that saved me a color. I'm interested to hear how the dye ones turn out, if you try them.

Welcome to the forum, and welcome back to karate!

Yeah, they are pricey! I ended up going with thestudio.com, because they were the cheapest option that would do the patches the way I wanted, but the minimum order still came out to around $120.

I appreciate the response and comments. Your hypothesis rings true to me. I would ask you to extrapolate that a little further if you don't mind...Let's assume for a moment that the above is correct. Do you think that this Kiko is or was, within any stylistic or regional art, taught as a complete art or do you think it was only "bits and pieces"....those elements that, for whatever reason, fit into what they were developing back in Okinawa (or was the limit of what they had been taught in China and absorbed)? While I have had an interest in this regard for quite some time, I became much more interested in it due to my studies in Taoism. In this school and in the martial arts the emanated from it, there are complete systems of qigong that cover meditation work, breath work, energy work, etc. But, since most of these systems and schools come from the north of China, our Okinawan forefathers would have had virtually no exposure to them. My thanks again for your time and thoughts on this. It's certainly possible that it was, at least at some point, a complete art. The Okinawans do value healthy living, after all, and I could certainly see the potential of those who went to China specifically seeking out such practices, and bringing them back, as well as the potential of Chinese emissaries or craftspeople, such as those who settled in Kumemura, teaching such things to people on Okinawa. Given the fact that there are still some people out there who teach Kiko, it stands to reason that (if my assumption was correct) someone in their martial, medicinal, or familial lineage would have known most if not all of a complete system. The fact that the Bubishi contains not just martial arts information, but medicinal and esoteric information related to health, certainly suggests that there is a likelihood of such a system being taught in conjunction with martial arts, as well.

Ah! You sir are a gentleman and a scholar! Thank you very much for the assistance. The general description that Ryan provides is right in line with what the teachings are from, primarily, the Daoist based arts (martial and qigong). It actually goes a little further than that as it as a work towards opening all of the joints. And then there are more advanced practices that take things a bit further, but would not necessarily be pertinent to the subject at hand. Interesting that one source has some basic information on it and another has literally no information. It again points out to me the oddity that there is such a lack of codified kiko practices in Okinawa, even though there is a heavy influence from Southern China...where practices such as these surely would have been taught. Would you happen to have any thoughts on this? Thank you again for your help and assistance with this. I wouldn't claim to say this authoritatively, but from what I have observed, it seems that Okinawan Kiko practices are more often perpetuated on an individual basis, rather than during group instruction. Additionally, it seems more common in Naha-Te-based systems (likely due to the emphasis on body development) than in Shuri/Tomari-Te-based systems (although it does show up there, on occasion). My suspicion is that Kiko was largely considered to be okuden, and simply not taught to the vast majority of students, and after several generations of that, things tend to die out. As to how that compares with Chinese arts, I'm reminded of the story of a member of the Kojo family going to mainland Japan for university, where he discovered that the school's jujutsu/Judo (I don't recall which) club taught a technique to white belts that was considered "secret" in Kojo-Ryu. The Okinawans developed their martial arts over a long period of time, as a blend of many things, but for a good portion of that time, anything (not just martial arts) of Chinese origin was considered to be superior, and perhaps even divinely inspired, so I could see the potential of them picking up something like qigong alongside the fighting aspects of Chinese martial arts (which the previously-mentioned Kojo family would likely have done, as they ran a dojo in the Ryukyu village in China), and deciding to keep that for only the most worthy students. After all, fighting is pretty much fighting, with varying preferences and approaches to doing the same sorts of things. Aside from a few special kata or applications, it's entirely possible that a lot of the Chinese material blended well enough with the Okinawan material that there was little need to make the distinction, but qigong may have been considered something entirely new and special.

Yes, I am familiar with Ryan's stuff. I actually use to communicate with him "back in the day" on the interwebs...not that he would remember me or know me from the proverbial "Adam". I tried reaching out to him via email using the last one I had, but never got a response. I don't think it bounced come to think of it. I had heard that he had some sort of health issues in the past (not sure if that is true or not). That might have something to do with it. I was off the interwebs for quite some time, so I lost contact with alot of people. Thanks though! Ryan is actually one of the people I reached out to about this. His explanation was, essentially, that it is a practice of reaching and stretching out your techniques as much as possible without ruining your form. He believes it is related to the "joint opening" practices of Chinese arts, but he also wasn't really familiar with those practices. My other contact spent 21 years living in Japan, and goes to Okinawa for several months every year, training in old Shuri-Te, and he hadn't even heard the term, so I'm going to say it's not all that common of a practice. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

I haven't trained in McCarthy's KU system, myself, but I've interacted with a number of its practitioners and former practitioners online, and I've seen a good number of videos. It seems to be a well-rounded program--as tatsujin mentioned, with it being a sogo bujutsu approach. A blend of striking, grappling, and weapons, with drills that incorporate everything from muchimidi to tuidi to newaza, is a good way to get a full martial arts experience in your training. I will say that some of the drills seem excessively long and complex, to me, though. Flow drills are great at what they do, but there is a point of diminishing returns, where you have to focus too much on remembering the drill, itself, and aren't able to focus as well on what it is actually supposed to be teaching. You would be better served with short drills, and then developing the ability to flow between them unscripted, IMO. That is a completely outside perspective, though. My experience with and understanding of McCarthy, as a person, is significantly less positive than his system, I'm afraid. As you've mentioned, he certainly comes off as a rather arrogant person who enjoys hearing himself talk, and he also likes to use large, unnecessarily complex vocabulary in his lectures, which really seems like it would just alienate and confuse people while making him sound smart. He has certainly contributed significantly to research into Okinawan karate, so it does make sense that he would be confident in what he presents, and I'm sure he has a reason for presenting in the manner he does, but it rubs me the wrong way, personally. Beyond that, he is very quick to publicly denounce and discredit people any time there appears to be some threat to his public image--in fact, if he or one of his students sees this post, I will likely be thrown under the bus a second time (the first time was because someone posted on my social media about him being a fraud, and I responded in a comment asking for proof). It's been happening a lot, lately, as well, due to the fact that a bunch of his former students are coming out publicly about him being manipulative, emotional abusive, and generally mean and disrespectful to people under him, among other claims. Obviously, your mileage may vary, on both the system and the person. Everyone learns a little differently, and enjoys different approaches to training. Every interpersonal interaction is different, and nuanced--like tatsujin's experience with him being generally positive. These are just my opinions, for whatever they are worth, and I would not, personally, want to be part of the KU system because of the person it is attached to. I appreciate being put into the same category as McCarthy and Iain, but I would never claim to have the same level of experience, and I certainly wouldn't consider myself an equal. I do my best with what I've been taught, what I've researched, and what I've figured out, but I'm sure by the time I have as much experience as they do, I'll be much further along than I am, now.

I believe it is part of Okinawan Kiko practice, but that was actually never part of my karate experience. I understand that it is supposed to be "joint stretching" concept, but I'm afraid I don't know how closely that relates to the Chinese methods you're referring to. I'll put some feelers out to my contacts and see what I can find.

This is, essentially, how I approach these terms, as well. As you mentioned, I'm not one of those who feels it necessary to use the word "bunseki," as "bunkai" works perfectly well. It's incredibly rare that I find the need to differentiate between analysis and detailed analysis, lol.

Welcome back to the forum!

I do not have an internal voice, which seems to shock people. Instead, I "feel" the words that I'm reading, as if I were physically speaking them. No sound in my brain, though. I can't say I've specifically considered this in my teaching, but I definitely try to figure out how different students learn best, and I generally end up with a mixture of verbal explanation and physical demonstration directly with the students. I have had a deaf student, before, and I can tell you that learning a bit of ASL is going to make your life much easier, but also be very helpful to the student and, more importantly (IMO), it will make the student feel accepted and respected. Deaf people have a very strong culture, and while your student may be able to read lips, it is a struggle, and spoken English is considered a different language by deaf people--they have to translate every word they lip-read. If you expect them to do that, it's only right to meet them halfway and learn to say some things in their language.

Welcome to the forum!

Why don't you teach the Pinans to adults unless asked?As tatsujin mentions, part of it is that they were designed primarily for children--which doesn't make them bad, or mean that they don't contain useful material. To me, they are simply unnecessary for adults, who can take the time to simply learn Passai, Kusanku, and Chinto, from which most of the Pinan material is derived. Yes, it takes longer to learn Kusanku than Pinan Yondan, but I would say that it doesn't really take that much longer to learn the three koryu kata than it takes to learn the 5 Pinan kata, and I would rather take some extra time to get people up to speed on them than spend all that time on the Pinan series, only to spend the same amount of time on the koryu kata, later, which largely contain the same or very similar material. As for what I start my adult students with, they begin with Chibana Chosin's three kihongata, then go into Naihanchi. Would you mind sharing with me what you start your adults with (kata)? Actually, I would be interested in what you kata list (in order) would be for adults. Thank you. As mentioned, above, I start them with Chibana's kihongata, and then the three Naihanchi kata. After that, it's Tawada Passai, then Kusanku Dai, then Shuri Sanchin. At that point, they also get to choose either Chinto, Gojushiho, or Seiyunchin, and they are expected to seek a kata/form from another system, as well. If they want to become an instructor, they'll obviously have to learn all of the kata, including the Pinans. I only have 5 belt colors for adults, and a completely separate color scheme for children. I also did away with the multiple levels of black belt because, in my experience, they lead to nothing but political nonsense, so I just have a black belt, and then an instructor certificate that can be sought and tested for by those who want to teach.

Well, given that I practice an Okinawan system, I learned the Pinan kata, not their Japanese counterparts. At this point, though, I only teach them to children, unless I'm asked to teach a seminar on them. I have also learned Gekisai, although they aren't part of the Shorin-Ryu curriculum I learned, but I don't teach it unless someone specifically wants me to. They all have good material in them, but I would say I would choose Pinan over Gekisai, as there is just more material, and that material largely ties directly to older kata.

If you were in the US, I would say that it's not feasible for a lot of people to get a doctor's note just to say that they are cleared to participate again, because most people can barely afford to go to a doctor when they actually have a problem, much less once the problem has gone away. Given that you're in the UK, though, I suppose that's less of an issue? I would second Bob's suggestion of checking with an attorney, just because there are some legal considerations when you get into medical documentation and private health information. In the end, though, it's up to you on whether you feel safe taking her back on as a student without the doctor's note. Normally, concussions can be recovered from in a matter of a few weeks, but if I recall the studies I saw several years ago correctly, that can be drawn out to many, many months if the concussed person isn't able to fully rest their brain, and I would guess that a 16 year old has probably been focusing quite a bit on school.