Wastelander

With this being your introduction, what do you think? Something you'd like to explore more, or not your cup of tea? Do you have questions about it? Looks like it has practical applications. Seems kind of interesting, based on what little I know I would likely enjoy trying it. I certainly encourage you to start playing with it, and I'd be curious to see how you feel as you develop that skill.

With this being your introduction, what do you think? Something you'd like to explore more, or not your cup of tea? Do you have questions about it?

This Okinawan martial concept can be translated as "sticky hands," "heavy hands," or "springy hands," depending on the context, which makes it a little difficult to pin down for those who aren't familiar, but it's based of of mochi--a pounded rice foodstuff that is somehow all three things at once. I'm curious as to how many of you incorporate muchimidi into your training, and how you do it? If you practice muchimidi, do you use any specific drills, exercises, or training tools? Is it just part of your kata application? I'd love to know! To give some examples from my own training: Solo drills using a kakiya/kakete-biki - Muchimidi as part of a lock flow drill - Partner drills based on kihon -

Required? No. Recommended? Yes! I have a fairely extensive list: Karate 1.0 by Andreas Quast Karate Uchina-Di by Itzik Cohen The Study of China Hand Techniques by Itoman Morinobu An Overview of Karatedo by Nakasone Genwa Okinawa Traditional Old Martial Arts: Kobudo, Karate by Nakamoto Masahiro Okinawa: The History of an Island People by George Kerr The Bubishi by Patrick McCarthy Ancient Okinawan Martial Arts: Koryu Uchinadi by Patrick McCarthy History and Traditions of Okinawan Karate by Hokama Tetsuhiro Okinawa’s Great Masters by Nagamine Shoshin The Essence of Okinawan Karate-Do by Nagamine Shoshin Okinawan Karate by Mark Bishop Zen Kobudo by Mark Bishop Bunkai Jutsu by Iain Abernethy The Way of Kata by Lawrence Kane and Kris WIlder My Journey with the Grandmaster by William Hayes The Essence of Goju-Ryu by Garry Lever and Richard Barrett Unante by John Sells Ryu-Te no Michi by Seiyu Oyata The Secret Royal Martial Arts Of Ryukyu by Kanenori Sakon Matsuo Naihanchi (Tekki) Kata: The Seed of Shuri Karate by Chris Denwood Okinawan Kempo: Karate-Jutsu on Kumite by Motobu Choki The Art of Hojo Undo by Mike Clarke Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts by Donn Draeger and Robert Smith Tales from the Western Generation by Matthew Apsokardu

I've never had an issue with just drinking water, honestly. Sometimes I'll have tea, but that's usually it. On the rare occasion I feel like I need a hydration boost, I'll usually go for Vitaminwater Zero--typically the Rise flavor, which is reminiscent of orange juice, but without the bite. My wife likes the Liquid IV water additives, though.

Welcome to the forum!

Studies have shown that personal rituals can have beneficial impacts on a person's mental wellbeing, as well as their performance in tasks they associate with the ritual. The example I remember from one study was putting on a suit and nice watch before giving a presentation, and it makes me think of putting on a keikogi and belt before training. While most of my solo training is done in street clothes, I do feel that my karate is better when I "suit up," lol. As for my own routine, I'm honestly not a very routine person. I tend to do things on whims instead of plans (which drives my wife nuts). Over the course of my day, I will run kata, at random, when I feel like it. I will stop by the kakiya and drill whatever comes to mind. I will hit a bag or makiwara as I pass by, and sometimes stop for a while to work them. I will pick up a chi-ishi or ishi-sashi and do a few exercises when I see them. I find that this approach breaks up the monotony of the day, and keeps me in a more positive mental state. When I set aside dedicated training time, I will generally warm up with some junbi undo, then work with the chi-ishi, ishi-sashi, or other weights, before running kata. Again, I hardly ever plan to work something specific, so it might be running all of the kata I practice, or it might be spending an hour on one kata. After that, I'll usually hit the bag or makiwara for a while as a cool-down. In a sense, it's a routine because it has a consistent pattern, even though the activities in the pattern change every time.

Welcome to the forum!

While I do tend to believe you can derive multiple practical applications for any posture or movement in kata, to include the Taikyoku series, I just don't like to double my work, if that makes sense? Here's an analogy: Children learn to draw shapes before they learn to write letters, because knowing their shapes makes it easier to learn how to write letters, which they will later use to write sentences. The Taikyoku kata were purpose-built to be the "drawing shapes" phase of learning. Those shapes are absolutely all in the alphabet, and while you COULD attempt to write sentences with just base shapes, it would be missing a lot of material. The material in the Pinan/Heian series, on the other hand, is part of the alphabet, and is built to be used, like letters in a sentence.

My late Sensei was working on putting together a program for this, actually, but he obviously passed away before it was ready. He had trained with FBI instructors and DEA agents, in addition to his diverse martial arts background, and spent a lot of time studying these sorts of scenarios. He and I discussed the tactics and techniques for such a thing, but it's certainly rare in a country where, unfortunately, it is sorely needed.

I no longer practice those kata, so I don't have any of my own content to really help you out, but I can say that they can be pretty directly compared to Pinan Nidan (Heian Shodan), and if you search for videos of application for those kata, you can get some ideas. I would say that the Taikyoku kata really only consist of two sequences, each. One is performing an uke-waza, followed by a strike, to each side, followed by a spin. The other is performing uke-waza or strikes in sequences of 3 straight forward or to the rear. If you look at them in this way, there isn't a lot you need to work out. If you assume that the attacker is in front of you, then the first sequence is telling you to get to the side of them as you perform the uke-waza, then seize control of their attacking limb to follow up with a strike, and if need be, grab them and spin them around--preferably to the ground. The second sequence is telling you that if you fail to get to the side, you should still apply the uke-waza, but then drive the opponent back with the forward pressure of your techniques, and the kata has you practice them in a series of 3 so that you work the transition from right to left, and left to right. Of course, there are many more ways to look at kata application, and you could certainly derive many more than what I've suggested here. This is really just a starting point.

Welcome to the forum!

Welcome to the forum!

I found that the MMA club at ASU had both fun and difficulty with hikite--they kept wanting to grab punches out of the air instead of taking the initiative, but once they got the hang of it, they saw a lot of value in it.

I typically try to stick with a theme, as a few others have mentioned, so that there is a lot of crossover, even if we aren't necessarily working on the exact same thing all the time. I start classes with the same warm-ups every time, for the most part, and occasionally add a couple extra exercises if I feel it would benefit everyone going forward in that session. After that is hojo undo, which changes from day-to-day, but is usually some combination of two or three hojo undo kigu. After that we run through the solo kata--for beginners, we can do all of them, but for advanced, we can stick to just the ones we are going to pull from that day. All of that typically takes the first 30 minutes or so of my 90 minute classes. The rest of the time is partner work, from platform drills like kakie and parry-pass to bully sparring and kakedameshi. The vast majority of that partner work is focused on training to apply the movements and postures of the kata from various positions, points of contact, and directions of movement, as well as in response to different stimuli. That means that even though we might be working totally different drills each session, we are working a lot of the same material within those drills, so students get "repetition by stealth," as Iain Abernethy likes to put it. For example, let's say we're going to work on applying the "stacked hands" position in Naihanchi Shodan as an armbar. We could just practice that over and over again in a static manner until everyone has it, or we can work it into a variety of drills that give it context, and which we can build on to add resistance. We can work that armbar from kakie so the student develops tactile sensitivity in response to a clash of arms. We can work it from parry-pass so they can develop the hand speed necessary to capture the opponent's arms when they are moving quickly. We can work it from block-pass-check (hubud lubud) to give more variety to the entries available. We can work it from padwork whenever the padholder extends an arm. We can work it off of a strangle attempt, or a headlock. We can work it from bully sparring so they have to learn to apply it under constant forward pressure. We can work it from kakedameshi to really drive home the close-range fighting skills needed to apply it. We can work it from MMA-style sparring so they can learn how to do it when the opponent is skilled in a wide array of fighting methods. We can work it from groundwork so they learn how the mechanics change in that situation. We can work it from self-defense scenario drills, so they can learn how and when to apply it when someone is acting out pre-attack indicators and behaviors. The list goes on and on.

I haven't taught at an MMA gym on any regular basis, but I did recently teach a session for a university MMA club, which went great. I do think that practical, classical karate fits quite well into MMA training.

I think it's interesting to see the fairly consistent use of flow drills in grappling arts, but not striking arts, and not much in karate, because (for me) karate is very much an art that integrates striking and grappling. I've definitely done my fair share of flow drills in Judo, and even joint lock flow drills in karate, but the majority of the flow drills that I've worked have been combinations of grappling and striking--of course, they are generally based on kata, so that makes sense. While I definitely find value in flow drills, I've also seen some common issues with flow drills I've seen in use: [list=] Flowing without considering the feasibility of transitionFlowing without considering the opponent Training to be good at the drill Flowing without considering the feasibility of transition is common in a lot of the joint lock flow drills that I've seen. Often, the drills are structured simply to teach students a collection of locks they need to know at a given level in the curriculum, and it doesn't really matter that it wouldn't make sense to transition from one lock to the next, or that it's very difficult to change the grip or direction of pressure that the drill requires. This, IMO, leads to impractical drills that don't teach much beyond memorization. Flowing without considering the opponent often ties in with the previous point. Not only should a flow drill be designed around transitions that make sense, but they should also consider how the opponent might react and resist. I often see both lock flows and striking flows that suffer from this--the opponent just stands there and lets you do the drill. To be an effective drill, IMO, it needs to at least train to expect common forms of resistance and continued attacks. Of course, they can't account for every possibility, but that's what "breaking the drill" is for. Training to be good at the drill plagues most flow drills, in my experience. People want to memorize the drill, and get to where they can do it quickly, smoothly, and without thought. The trouble with this is that they have trained into themselves an expectation that it is always going to go exactly the way they want, and the moment something throws them off, they get hung up on it. I'm curious as to whether you all have seen these sorts of issues, and how you address them?

Hello, everyone! I'm curious to know how you all feel about flow drills? If you use flow drills, are they ones you were taught, or have you created your own? How are they structured? I think it would be an interesting discussion to have on how everyone utilizes this type of training.

For the purposes of this project, I'm going to include kata that I no longer practice. I'm going to include, in parentheses, who the kata were either known to have been created by, or as suspected to have been created by, as best I can recall off the top of my head (all my books are currently in storage, or I would reference them). Some of the translations may be iffy, as we don't have kanji for all of the kata names, because they were written in katakana for Uchinaaguchi, and the translations are no longer certain. Nakazato-Lineage Shorin-Ryu (Kobayashi-Ryu): Kihon Ippon/Nihon/Sanbon - Basic #1/2/3 (Chibana Chosin) Fukyu no Kata - Form of Fundamentals (Nakazato Shugoro) Naihanchi Shodan - Close Inside Fighting Level One ("Tode" Sakugawa) Naihanchi Nidan - Close Inside Fighting Level Two ("Bushi" Matsumura) Naihanchi Sandan - Close Inside Fighting Level Three ("Anko" Itosu) Pinan Shodan/Nidan/Sandan/Yondan/Godan - Peaceful Mind/Safe From Harm Level 1/2/3/4/5 ("Anko" Itosu) Passai Sho (Itosu Passai) - Lesser Fortress Storming ("Anko" Itosu) Passai Dai (Tawada/Matsumura Passai) - Greater Fortress Storming (Tawada Shinkazu or "Bushi" Matsumura) Kusanku Sho (Itosu Kusanku) - Lesser Public Official ("Anko" Itosu) Kusanku Dai - Greater Public Official (Chatan Yara or "Tode" Sakugawa) Chinto - Eastern Town ("Bushi" Matsumura) Gojushiho (Useishi) - 54 Steps (China via "Bushi" Matsumura) Gorin - 5 Rings (Nakazato Shugoro) Higa-Lineage Kishimoto-Ha Shuri-Te (KishimotoDi): Tachimura no Naihanchi - Tachimura's Close Inside Fighting ("Tode" Sakugawa) Nidanbu - Second Level Martial Skill (Kishimoto Soko) Tachimura no Passai - Tachimura's Fortress Storming ("Tode" Sakugawa) Tachimura no Kusanku - Tachimura's Public Official ("Tode" Sakugawa) Walker-Lineage Shuri-Ryu: Taikyoku Ichi/Ni/San - Taiji 1/2/3 ("Gigo" Funakoshi) Wansu - Prince/Dragon Boy Dumping (Wang Ji or Go Kenki) Anaku - Light from the South (Kyan Chotoku) Naihanchi Sho - First Close Inside Fighting/Missing Enemy ("Tode" Sakugawa) Empi Sho - First Flying Swallow (Wang Ji or Go Kenki) Seiyunchin - Pulling Battle (Higashionna Kanryo) There are more kata in Shuri-Ryu than I learned, so I'm not going to delve into those, but I hope this helps!

I don't think that traditional martial arts are dead, or even dying, but they are absolutely undergoing a divergence, and I think that we have reached a point where some approaches to the arts simply don't qualify as traditional/classical martial arts, anymore. Some are emphasizing aesthetic over all else. They may have fine looking kata, but no purpose or intent behind their movements. Some are emphasizing victory in competition over all else, and losing all of the curriculum that doesn't directly support that. Depending on the competition they train for, some aspects may be incredibly sloppy, or simply not present, at all. Some are emphasizing the discipline and personal development aspects of the arts, and remove the practical aspects, which often removes the functional intent and allows for form to suffer. Some are still trying to pass on the arts with practical functionality as the goal. In some cases, this will result in somewhat ugly performances, but the fundamental structures and mechanics should be sound, otherwise the movements and postures would not be able to work.

Technically, that's not accurate. The vast majority of Shuri-Te-based systems do practice Naihanchi/Tekki and Pinan/Heian, but there are some that do not--some branches of Matsumura Seito, Kojo-Ryu, and KishimotoDi, for example, don't practice the Pinan/Heian kata. Additionally, Naha-Te-based systems, like Goju-Ryu, To'on-Ryu, and Uechi-Ryu, don't practice them. If we want to talk about the most widely-practiced foundational kata across all styles of karate, the answer is actually Seisan--this is the one kata found in more styles than any other, statistically. Of course, I happen to practice two systems that DON'T practice it, so I get to be an outlier in that statistic. Naihanchi, Sanchin, and Gekisai are the other top most-practiced kata, and the Pinan/Heian series falls after those.

I disagree. I think the abolition of higher dan ranks doesn't mean that black belt isn't the beginning. Just because there are no more trail markers doesn't mean that there isn't a trail to walk. I suppose that if you're of the metaphysical mind, think in abstracts, etc... it's easy to look at it this way. However, for those who think strictly in the empirical (like myself), this is rather difficult. The great thing about starting martial arts at a later age is that there are dan grades that I will NEVER reach. I don't know what those grades are, because I don't know when my time on this Earth is up. But what I do know is that when I die, I'll die when I'm short of that next grade that I had yet to make. I can't imagine merely simply making "black belt" with nothing after that, and not being of the mind that "this is it." I suppose I don't see progress without rank as being metaphysical or abstract. You can, at any point, compare your current knowledge and skill to your past knowledge and skill, and see how far you've come. You can test your abilities, and any point, and see how you have improved. To me, that is plenty empirical. When I was still in the Shorinkan, the longwise red/white belts were for 5th and 6th Dan, but only in America--the Shorinkan didn't officially use them, but Americans (mostly) decided that they needed another fancy belt to entice people. It would be interesting if they have added more, or lowered the rank requirement for them, since I left, and not in a good way, IMO. Personally, I also much prefer the plan black belt over stripes or kohaku-obi, as well, if you ARE going to have additional yudansha ranks. So I've got two responses to this, first in speaking solely for myself, and the other in general. Speaking for myself I believe that every straight masculine man (and by that, I don't mean anything toxic; I just mean a typical guy who's into guy stuff. Even a nerd who's into anime qualifies) likes martial arts and wants to practice at least one. What man doesn't want to "kick butt," or at least know how to effectively do so? There's a reason I started martial arts so late in my life (at the age of 40): I have three degrees. A bachelor's, a master's, and an associate's (the order in which I got them, the associate's is in a major unrelated to the other two degrees). I promised my wife that I'd give her the rest of my GI Bill, so that she could use it to earn degrees herself. My dream of earning a doctorate? Gone. So what can I do instead? The thing I believe it's in every man to want to do: martial arts. So now, I'll always be in pursuit of SOMETHING. And that's how I like it. The fact that there are dan grades beyond my life expectancy ensures this. Speaking in general In the three years and some change that I've been at the dojo that I'm now leaving, here's what I've noticed: - People making black belt, and no longer showing up - People making black belt, and coming far less often - Random black belts that I've never seen or met before, who decide to randomly show up, and whom I've never seen again after that. My point is this: no matter how much you drill it into people that "black belt is not the end, it's only the beginning," there are more people too many that don't believe this. That's why I worry about the effects that eliminating dan grades might have. Because even among those that stick around after getting their black belt, how many might not by eliminating grades? I personally would love to learn Gojushiho and all those those other advanced kata that are normally taught at sandan or higher. But then there are the higher grades that are awarded based on your contribution to the art. I don't "need" my master's degree, as the job I've been working in for over a decade only requires a bachelor's. But I was really ecstatic when I got my master's, because of that sense of accomplishment and achievement. So that could be a motivator as well. If I won the lottery jackpot, and no longer needed to work, you can bet that I'd be working on my doctorate. In my experience, between several different styles and schools over the course of nearly 2 decades, so far, the vast majority of people are going to consider black belt to be "the end," regardless of how many additional dan grades come after it. I can't count the number of times I've encountered people returning to martial arts after long breaks to "finish what they started" (by which, they mean earning black belt, and nothing more). As you've said, people very often earn black belt and stop showing up. Heck, the general public who are looking for martial arts training, by and large, have no idea that there even ARE more ranks above black belt, and they have no sense of scale or import for such a structure. You've compared the dan grades to college degrees, and as someone who never went to college, I don't really have a proper frame of reference for that, but to me, the question is this: are you pursuing a degree/dan grade because you want to learn, or are you pursuing it to say that you got the piece of paper? I know what my answer is, and I know that not everyone is going to have the same answer, but as an instructor, I can tell you who I would prefer to teach.

I absolutely agree! We never called anyone "master" in my late Sensei's dojo, or the organization we were a part of, and in the dojo I was part of prior to that, I was taught that the term "master" was only used posthumously. I realize that some of the Japanese titles used in martial arts can be translated to "master," but if you break down the roots of the terms, that isn't really what they mean.

This is an interesting facet of the discussion, because I actually still see Shodan (which literally means "beginning level," after all) as having completed learning the basics and being ready to start learning, in earnest. To me (and my late Sensei), the solo kata, the training drills, and the example applications, are all "basics," in a sense. It isn't that you've mastered the curriculum, but you have memorized and gotten comfortable with all of the fundamental material of the style, which gives you the freedom to begin exploring and studying it in depth. The funny thing about this is that I acknowledge how different my approach is to what is generally done on Okinawa. There, Shodan is ACTUALLY considered to be a simple sign that you've learned the basics--the actual kihon, and a couple fundamental kata--and can be achieved in 2-3 years. In the West, we have long put black belt on a pedestal, and MANY schools already require as much for Shodan as someone testing for Nidan-Godan on Okinawa. I recognize that I've, essentially, built on that Westernization with my approach, rather than the Okinawan one, but I see that as part of the evolution of the art, in a way. Because Westerners have done that for so long, and because other arts, like BJJ, have taken the same route, it is often expected that a black belt have more of a "mastery" of their art than was traditionally required, and we should (IMO) maintain some quality control within karate by keeping up with that trend. I know that seems anathema to traditional karate, but the ranks were only added less than 100 years ago, in the first place, and even Judo, where they came from, has changed how they work in that time.

I've seen a lot of comments mentioning cross-training, which is great! I actually do require that students testing for black belt must go out and learn a form from another style, and be able to demonstrate application for it. I also take competitive fighting, like MMA matches, into consideration for grading. I suppose my question would be, "how do ranks accomplish what you're proposing?" With point A, it sounds as though the concern is that once someone reaches Shodan that there is nothing more to learn from the instructor, or no additional guidance from the instructor, unless there are additional ranks above Shodan. I don't personally believe that the ranks are necessary for continued learning and guidance. With point B, I think you hit the nail on the head with your very first sentence--TIME is the important thing. How do ranks change your perspective in a way that time, itself, does not? Especially if you require the full curriculum for Shodan, which would mean that it takes longer to achieve that rank, in the first place?