Wastelander

Welcome to the forum! Looks like you've already been given some solid advice, too

Brown belt is 7th kyu in your dojo? That seems backwards, to me. To answer your question, though, I have trained in both Shorin-Ryu and KishimotoDi, simultaneously, and I work some Goju-Ryu kata, as well. The thing is, I maintain Shorin-Ryu as my core style, and my instructor didn't have a problem with crossover. By training two styles at once, they are going to bleed into each other, no matter how hard you try to prevent it, and if your instructor isn't okay with some of that happening, you're going to have trouble.

Welcome to the forum!

Congratulations to all the winners, and thank you very much for the votes!

That is what I do in private lessons for people who want to work on their sparring, a lot of the time, and I do it here and there in sparring classes. As you mention, it does take up a lot of time, and the more students you have in class, the more time it takes, but it's definitely really valuable. It's absolutely the approach I would take for anyone training for a fight, especially.

Welcome to the forum! And yes, you will bruise less as time goes on

Well, when I start my program in the Spring, I will just have general classes, but that's because I'll still be getting it off the ground. I will probably add in some specialty classes, over time. The dojo I have been at for the past 9 years does quite a few specialty classes, because it has so MANY classes per week, divided up amongst the various instructors. There are "little warriors" classes for the 3-5 year olds, and then we have youth beginner classes and adult beginner classes. Intermediate and advanced classes are all ages, but limited by rank. There are separate classes that specifically focus on kata, kobudo, and kumite, as well as one tournament-focused class per week. Every now and then, they run extra specialty classes for several weeks, such as a "CrossKick" or "Boot Camp" type of class. Soon, one of our brown belts will be running a specialty class for the deaf and HOH.

I would definitely like to go to Okinawa, again, but this time without the shackles of the organization I have been a part of, so that I could actually do a lot of training while I'm there. Since I can't pass medicals to fight, anymore, it would be cool to start coaching some students for MMA fights. I'm starting my own dojo when I move in January/February, so that's a goal I'm close to meeting, as it is. There are a bunch of people I would like to train with, of course. If it helps, you don't need to know the kata to learn things at Iain's seminars--he refers to the kata, of course, but you don't have to perform the kata, or anything, so you're really just learning drills. Toward the end he also has you do some padwork, and a bit of light resistant training with some of the content from the seminar.

I think that all martial arts training tends to be rather proprioceptive, in nature, because it is all about controlling the body. That said, at least in karate, proprioception can also be used to more quickly identify what the opponent is doing, through contact with them. That's where exercises like kakie come into play, and sparring methods like kakedameshi and randori.

As I alluded to some of this is also about tradition and an organizations syllabus. If you want to teach under certain organizational banner you must teach that syllabus at a minimum, but you are more than free to add on. For many of us that is certainly a factor on some things we do. One other thing is that is it possible that we are not seeing the full benefit that was intended? How many times has this been said about kata or certain katas and then you have someone like Ian Abernethy breakdown and explain the moves that people performed like a dance routine for years? I understand that they are a requirement in many organizations--I will be leaving one such organization at the end of the year, in fact. When I have had to teach such drills, I explain that I don't like them, and they aren't realistic or practical, but required by the organization. Personally, I care little for traditions that do not serve to improve my karate, and the typical, formal step-sparring drills would fall into that category. I have had very knowledgeable and skilled instructors from 5th Dan up to 10th Dan explain what these drills are meant to teach, and I understand what they are saying, but I also disagree on much of it. Even where I agree that it teaches something, they have failed to convince me that such drills are the most EFFICIENT method of teaching those things. As to one of your earlier points, I have found no issues with teaching practical drills as part of a large group--even withing the organization I've been a part of for 9 years, which is one that does step-sparring.

The process you describe can just as easily be done with drills that use realistic attacks and defenses, with sound tactics. That's kind of my point--the drills I'm talking about don't do anything that another drill can't do better.

Completely agree that this is the best answer to Wastelander's question. In our organization we recently had some leadership changes that came with some training changes that seemed very strange. For instance we change many of our kyu level katas to one count for each step regardless of how it used to flow before. As well as other changes that didn't seem to make since. For a months we thought this was just the new way things are going to be done for all ranks. New leader new rules, right? After the next seasonal training camp it was explained that the new ways were set up so the instructors could see each step and make corrections in a large crowd and it was also mainly the new way to teach beginners. It seems that the multiple moves being done in some katas were very sloppy and not even the correct move. The instructors couldn't see it and fix that in" real time". So yeah it did not seem practical to practice this way but there was a good reason for it. If you translate this into how things were done years ago think about the pictures of Okinawan and Japanese training sessions with huge groups. I could see sparring getting chaotic to the point that these one and three step sparring drills were necessary. In both of the styles I have trained in these types of drills get more and more advanced. You walk before you run. As I mentioned, before, I'm not against structured training and using pre-arranged drills; it's the specific approach to drills that I have problems with. Breaking down kata into counts so you can check postures does make sense for a large crowd, but your example for sparring does not. If the "step sparring" drills were meant to break down sparring into drills that were easier to check and make sure people are doing them right, they would actually contain sparring techniques, which the vast majority of such drills do not contain, if you compare the drills to the kumite they do. I have learned and taught sparring drills for years, and while they are definitely pre-arranged and done step-by-step at first, they are still recognizable as things you would actually do in sparring. The formalized "step sparring" or "yakusoku kumite" drills do not, in any way, resemble such training methods. They are the karate version of busy work.

1 Shuri-Ryu 2 Judo 1 Shorin-Ryu Starting my own in the Spring, if that counts?

Then there is no real clear cut winner or loser, only the external power that be, judged from their perspective and rules, to say who is victorious?Another point about this bout, is that the combatant that caused the injury, did not kneel down, showing his back to the injured opponent. I find this to be disrespectful? Which is another reason why this person should have been disqualified, due to adding insult to injury. In WKF, participants are supposed to stand at yoi in their starting position, generally, when awaiting a judge's call for anything, which is what he did. By the guidelines of the organization, what he did was proper, even if it isn't the "traditional" thing to do.

By WKF rules, red should be disqualified and blue gets the "win." Typically, WKF will penalize the striker any time there is a knockout, even if they technically should call "mubobi" (failure to adequately defend oneself) to the person who was struck. That happened to my Sensei in one of the last tournaments he participated in when he was alive; the other guy completely dropped his hands and stood up out of his stance right as my Sensei threw a head kick, and was subsequently dropped by said head kick. From the perspective of actual fighting, the person who gets the knockout wins, of course

Welcome to the forum, Maria!

Yes, that is the kind of rotation I mean It sure sounds like a budget combined with a checkbook, to me--tracking income and expenses broken down by line item? I'm sure it will make more sense once I have to actually start tracking it. I can put together the mission/vision statement easily enough, it's just something I hadn't really considered, given my previous experience with them. I saw some templates looking around on Google. I have considered an accountant, but I want to make sure I can afford to pay one first, lol

Currently, no, but we will be selling our current house when we move to the town I'm starting the dojo in, which will give me that cushion, and I'm saving as much as I can, just in case. Thanks! To be fair, the dojo I started in rotated students up and down, and that worked fine, so I think it can work in America, as well. Every now and then I do it when I teach, already. With kids it can be challenging if you don't have well-established expectations for behavior. I will actually not still be under his umbrella, for a variety of reasons which have caused a lot of drama and frustration. I do plan to have other instructors come and visit, though, which should hopefully accomplish the same thing. I am not responsible for paying any utilities, directly--my share comes out of my flat rates for the space--so I shouldn't have to worry too much about that part. As for a P&L Statement, I've never put together an "official" document for that sort of thing, but I've written up budgets and bills before, so it should be a similar idea? I would just like to point out, as someone who has worked for a good number of corporations over the years, that Mission and Vision Statements are pretentious jokes in those environments, so it's hard for me to take them seriously . I have heard that banks insist on having them, but it just seems silly based on my experience. Of course, as a small business owned and run by just a handful of people, I suppose it makes more sense from a marketing perspective--you don't need it to keep the business on task, but it is a quick way of telling others what you do.

I figured I would get a Square, or something like it, to take cards with my phone, and I've used PayPal for things for a long time. Now, I guess Venmo and Zelle are more popular, so I can take those, too. It's too bad that GoCardless service isn't available here, but I do know that companies out here set up direct debits for things, so I'll ask my bank about it when I go set up my business account. As for the paperwork portion, those are definitely good things to keep track of! From the quotes I've gotten on insurance, it looks like I pay per student, but it is still an umbrella policy, rather than a bunch of individual ones. Most of your suggested forms are things I already figured I would want to have, and most of that can just be included in a "new student packet." As for the pricing breakdown for the number of students, it's a "small town" for out here (still larger than the two nearest "cities" where I grew up ), so things tend to cost less, at least compared to Phoenix. Of course, prices vary by location, and the industrial complex the gym is at isn't exactly downtown, so it's on the lower end. Some industrial spaces in higher traffic areas would take me more like 30-35 students to cover expenses. Commercial spaces are about 8x more expensive than industrial spaces, so that's not really feasible, unfortunately--that would be so nice, though! With regard to training with beginners, I have mostly been training by myself since my Sensei passed away, anyway. Every now and then I could grab a brown belt or black belt to train with, but not often. I can probably still borrow people on occasion, so I'll have that. Plus, when it comes to teaching, I can periodically jump into drills with the students, and tone things down to their level, which lets me refine my technique, anyway.

Thanks, Danielle! I'm not actually even sure how to go about setting up direct debit--I assume I just talk to my bank? Or do I have to have them set it up with their bank? If nothing else, I figured I could use Square, or PayPal/Venmo/etc., to collect payments, as well. The paperwork part is something I'm not going to be terribly good at, at first, I imagine, since I don't even know what all paperwork will be involved. I know I need to keep track of waivers, and payments, and class attendance for students, as well as my own business finances/expenses. I'm definitely on-board with the Facebook ads. How many students can I fit in that space at a time? Well, that depends entirely on what all we are doing in the class, at the time, and whether I can have people sit out and rotate in. That comes out to around 20ft x 30ft of space, which I can have plenty of people running kihon kata and Naihanchi on, which is what they will be starting with, kata-wise. I figure 10 is probably my cap for people being able to do partner work at one time, staggered on the mat. Having people sit out and rotate in could let me have more people in a class, even in the smaller space (they do it on Okinawa, so why not?). I'm going to have three childrens' classes and three teen/adult classes in a week, and chances are that I won't have every student attend every class. Just starting out, I imagine it will take me a bit to reach a point where all of my classes are full enough to justify increasing my space, but when I do, I can discuss expanding with the gym owner. Ideally, I'm hoping to eventually be able to lease my own entire space, so this is my building ground for that purpose. My rent agreement with the gym owner is tiered, based on the number of students, up to the full per-sq-ft price he pays for the space, and that includes utilities for me. I will need a minimum of 7 students to break even on rent at the start, which I'm fairly confident I can manage. For what I plan to charge, in my market area, I would need 25 students to break even on leasing an industrial space like the gym entirely for myself, so I figure 30 to break even on operating costs, overall, when I decide to start leasing my own entire space. I have to provide my own martial arts insurance, since the gym insurance doesn't cover it, but otherwise he has given me free reign on how I run my program. We can even use the gym equipment, if nobody is already using it. I can also bolt things to the floor (makiwara) or hang things on the wall/ceiling (bags), and I can store equipment (mats/pads) in the gym. I do need to get some proper martial arts mats, at some point, because the rubberized gym floor isn't good for throws/takedowns, so that's a limitation of the space, but it's really my responsibility to address. I do need to ask him about what sort of signage is allowed on the property, because that isn't controlled by the gym owner--that's a property owner and city decision. If possible, I would like to put a sign up in front of the complex by the road, but I don't know if that's feasible. At the very least, I will be hanging a banner in the gym with my logo, and I'm going to have uniforms embroidered and/or patches made. We have also agreed to do cross-promotion, but we will have to see how that works out, in practice. I've already come to terms with the fact that I will only have beginners for a good while. In some ways, that is a little frustrating, but at the same time, I see it as an opportunity to really build a new generation of martial artists from the ground up, so I'm also excited. I have some intermediate/advanced level friends and acquaintances that are open to coming down and training with me on occasion, so I can always get my need to work more advanced material out that way

Thanks, Bob! I feel as though I am in the phase where I know there are things I don't know, but I don't know what they are to ask about them, lol. Teaching karate is easy, for me, but setting up a business to do it has a LOT of moving parts. I'm wondering if there are any "standard" business considerations I have forgotten, or missed? Any additional considerations for starting it up? That sort of thing.

Well, I'm finally doing it--I'm going to start my own karate program/dojo! I am moving to a smaller city, South of Phoenix, early next year, and have made arrangements with a CrossFit gym to sub-lease space from. It's not much (only 600sqft), but it's a start. I created an LLC, got an EIN, and applied for a trade name for the dojo, itself. I've pulled together information on signing up for insurance, a TPT license, and a business license from the city. I've created a logo (which I'm quite proud of), and set up a page on my website for it, along with social media accounts. I've started posting in a Facebook group for city residents that has over half the city's population in membership, and I plan to run targeted ads on Facebook/Instagram, post up flyers, and attend local events to drum up more interest. I know I will need some program to keep track of finances, and something to track students attendance (although that one I may just build, myself). I'll be honest, it feels like a whirlwind trying to set this thing up, and since I have never set up a business, before, I don't even know what I might be missing. Any advice from those who have done it before would be appreciated!

As I mentioned earlier, I don't know what kinds of drills you do as part of your system, so you may very well use "step sparring" or "formal drills" or "yakusoku kumite" to describe practical drills. I simply use them to describe unrealistic, impractical drills because that is the vast, vast majority of such drills, such as these: A drill consisting of a realistic attack, from a realistic distance, being reacted to with a realistic, practical, effective counter that works as you add resistance, can be considered a type of "yakusoku kumite" or "step sparring" drill, but is not what I'm referring to with my complaint

It's a good question. Maybe there isn't any?.... What are the benefit(s) if there aren't any formalized drills?? Perhaps uncertainty of any continuity of some degree for either the student and/or the instructor. Possible chaos on the floor...should I learn this first....or that first...or at the same time...oh never mind... The benefits that I see in formalized drills is that there must be a learning starting point somewhere and somehow. Then perhaps, once a learning starting point is understood and established, the non-formalized learning point begins. In learning/teaching anything, a starting point must be understood and established. Baby steps at every turn of learning/teaching, whatever those baby steps are. I'm not sure I follow. Why would one need formalized, impractical drills to ensure continuity, when we have kata? Why would one need formalized, impractical drills to maintain order and prevent chaos on the floor, when we have an instructor leading the class? I would also argue that starting with realistic drills would provide a "learning starting point" that is much more practical than the formalized drills. We don't even start having our students work the formal yakusoku kumite drills until 7th kyu prepping for 6th, and by that point we have taken them through quite a few practical self defense drills against realistic attacks. It hasn't caused a problem, and I'm honestly

I do think that many of the formalized drills can be adjusted to be more realistic--closing the gap to a realistic distance, changing the postures, throwing more realistic attacks, etc. We do that with some of ours, as well. My problem with it is that it has become something different from what it started out as, and none of the training of the formal drill really helps students when they transition to doing it more realistically. They have already gotten used to the long range, the stepping back, the impractical blocks, timing a formal karate-style attack, etc., and when none of that happens anymore, they get lost. So, why not simply START with the realistic drills? The only reason I have seen is "safety," or to make it "easier for beginners," but I have not found either of those arguments to really be valid. I've taught realistic self defense drills to children on their first day of karate, and they have been able to pick them up and do them without hurting anyone. What benefit, really, is there in the formalized drills?