Wastelander

Hello, everyone! I apologize in advance for the long post! There are, in general, three stances used in the practice of the Naihanchi/Tekki/Chulgi/etc. kata, which go by different names depending on the style you practice. For simplicity's sake, I will use the names I am more familiar with: Shiko-dachi = Horse stance with toes pointed outward Kiba-dachi = Horse stance with toes pointed forward Naihanchi-dachi = Horse stance with toes pointed inward When I first learned Naihanchi, I was practicing Shuri-Ryu, and they did it in a very deep kiba-dachi. In training on my own for two years, I adjusted it to a higher kiba-dachi to experiment with that. When I started training in Shorin-Ryu, I was introduced to Naihanchi-dachi, which I was allowed to play with and adjust to fit my build and physical limitations. When I started training KishimotoDi, I learned a version of Naihanchi that uses shiko-dachi throughout. From what I have been able to gather, Naihanchi likely went through a progression from shiko-dachi to kiba-dachi to Naihanchi-dachi over time, and different instructors stuck with what they liked, personally, for various reasons. You can actually see these changes over time in historical photos, which is especially interesting. In one of Funakoshi Gichin's (founder of Shotokan) books, he performs Naihanchi in shiko-dachi, and then later photos show him using kiba-dachi, which of course became wider and lower as his son, Funakoshi Gigo, started changing things. Konishi Yasuhiro (founder of Shindo Jinen-Ryu, and a student of Funakoshi, among others) also taught Naihanchi in shiko-dachi, and has photos of him demonstrating applications on Motobu Choki using shiko-dachi. Photos of Motobu Choki (a student of Itosu Anko and Matsumura Sokon), himself, show him using a high kiba-dachi for Naihanchi, although he can be seen using shiko-dachi for some of his applications. There is a photo of Kentsu Yabu (also a student of Itosu and Matsumura) teaching a class full of students working Naihanchi in shiko-dachi. Hanashiro Chomo was a student of Itosu, but taught Naihanchi in shiko-dachi, according to the Bugeikan, which still passes along his material. Some practitioners of Matsumura Seito (which describes its lineage and being non-Itosu Shorin-Ryu) use shiko-dachi in their Naihanchi practice, although I have also seen some use kiba-dachi, and some use Naihanchi-dachi. Various practitioners of Okinawan kenpo or Tomari-te (such as Oyata Seiyu and Yamashiro Yoshitomo) use a stance that I would call barely a shiko-dachi, as the toes point out just slightly, and it is also a style that does not come from Itosu. Kojo-Ryu, at least the version of it taught by Hayashi Shingo, which is also a non-Itosu system, uses shiko-dachi for its Naihanchi kata. KishimotoDi is a style that not only bypassed Itosu, but also bypassed Matsumura, coming from a contemporary of his named Tachimura, and it uses shiko-dachi for Naihanchi. The inward-pointed toes of Naihanchi-dachi start showing up later than either shiko-dachi or kiba-dachi, as far as I can tell by looking at historical photos/footage and styles of various lineages. Possibly as recently as the 1930's, as that is as far back as I have seen photos of it, which show Chibana Chosin (Dai Senpai of Itosu's dojo) using it in Naihanchi. Interestingly, Motobu specifically derided the "pigeon toed" version of the stance that Itosu had started teaching later in life. All three of these stances, while similar in nature, have some slightly different capabilities and limitations, and having played with all three of them, myself, I've tried to explore those and make note of them. I'm curious as to which stances people here use in their Naihanchi kata, and what purpose they ascribe to that stance beyond "it's the way Sensei said to do it."

The depth I go into depends on the size of the class--for private lessons, I can obviously go into more depth than a class of 20. For us, getting people started on kata application is pretty easy, because the first movement of the first kata tells you exactly why you pull your hand to your hip when you punch. It's very clear, and easy to see and understand. We teach the application right alongside the kata for that. In general, as we go through teaching a kata, we will go over an application here or there, to give them an idea of what they are doing. The larger the class, the fewer examples we have time to give them to practice, but we still get a couple in there each time. Beginners get fairly basic applications, intermediate students get more in-depth/dangerous applications, and advanced students have to start working out their own applications based on the examples they have learned and the concepts/principles that come with them.

We slide our feet as we step, but we don't always necessarily use the heel--depends on what you're trying to do.

Congratulations!

We tie ours the first way you describe, and I like mine to be a bit longer than mid-thigh. Interestingly, although you're describing a specific process in your second method, you can get the same result by just feeding your belt together as you wrap from the front, which is how I was originally taught, and did for the first four years of my training. Now, if you grapple a lot, you might start tying it the first way, but with a lock-down version of the knot. Comes in handy!

There is a difference between "fighting" or a "fighting stance" and the way that traditional arts are intended to be used

I'm totally in agreement with you, as a general rule. Your original question, though, was whether the literal "block" application of jodan-uke could be used in a right, and it can. Admittedly, I'm not talking about a picture perfect jodan-uke in complete isolation, but I have absolutely seen and used a single-arm jodan-uke in conjunction with dropping levels beneath an attack and throwing a simultaneous punch. It's sporty, but it works in the longer ranges of fighting. Once you're in close, of course, it's back to the old-school material.

Welcome to the forum!

Welcome to the forum! I started at 18, for what it's worth

Welcome to the forum

Southern Illinois, actually! Now I'm wondering if we might know a few of the same people. Lol, it's certainly possible! And I have family in Southern Illinois, as well. I trained in Shuri-Ryu in Morton and Peoria, IL. The Peoria dojo was just a street over from Koeppel Sensei's dojo.

I'm in agreement on firearms training, knives, and sticks being the most practical for modern people. That said, I think it's easy to overlook traditional weapons without realizing that the techniques used with them can be applied to other things. What functional difference is there between manipulating nunchaku and manipulating a belt or length of chain? What difference is there between the techniques of kama and striking and hooking with a hammer? What's the difference between blocking and striking with a sai and blocking and striking with a tire iron? Honestly, not much.

Welcome to the forum! With that combination, I'm curious if you're from Central Illinois

For what it's worth, Muay Thai has a heavy emphasis on clinchwork that can be employed defensively to control people. Muay Boran, the ancestor art of Muay Thai, also includes a variety of limb control, joint locking, and takedown methods that might be of use. That would keep you from having to look elsewhere--it would just change your focus in training

You can, and many people do. You just have to make sure that they don't already have a martial arts program, and if they do, they would probably expect you to teach the same thing.

Every technique in the world is harder to make work on skilled opponents, and as bushido_man96 points out, there is a counter to every technique. Look at any match between top-tier fighters from any style and keep an eye on how many times a technique succeeds. For example, Anderson Silva--considered to be one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time--had a 63% accuracy rating with his strikes, according to Fight Metric. That means that for every 100 strikes he threw, he was able to actually land 63 of them. Does that mean that the other 37 strikes were bad techniques? Not at all! Chances are, they were the probably many of the same techniques that did land, but the opponent was able to read them early enough to avoid them. The same thing happens with grappling techniques, too.

If it helps, it helps, so I don't really knock it for people who like it, but it doesn't help me at all. It irritates my skin too much, and I essentially get a chemical burn from it.

Like Nidan Melbourne, I'm curious as to how you are going to reconcile the belt discrepancies this creates. I would guess you would bump everyone down to the remaining color below what they currently have, if their rank is not remaining on the list? Or re-test?

Well, black belt ranks are much more highly regarded--rightly or wrongly--in the West than they are in Japan/Okinawa. I know that most of the legitimate karateka I've met are of the opinion that your Shodan test should be a long, incredibly difficult endeavor. Almost a hazing ritual, of sorts. In this age of McDojoism and 6 year old black belts, I can understand the attraction of ensuring that a black belt "means something," but I feel like some people may have over-corrected. My Shodan test was difficult, and demanding, of course, but not as difficult or drawn out as those conducted at some other dojo I know of, despite requiring more skill/knowledge to pass. As far as what it means, to me, I'm admittedly torn. The rank that I hold isn't particularly important to me, except in the regard that because I teach, a higher rank is a better credential, from a business perspective. Of course, the fact that my Sensei determined that I met his expectations of skill and knowledge for both my Shodan and Nidan ranks does mean a lot to me, because he had high standards. I'm also not sure how I will feel about any future ranks I earn not being done under his watch, with his signature.

White is our standard uniform for karate, and black or brown for kobudo. Upon reaching brown belt, students can wear any combination of white and black for karate training. There isn't much real special significant meaning behind it, except that the student has put in the work and dedication to reach brown belt, which isn't easy in our dojo.

Tegumi, as in the grappling component of karate, is definitely a part of our training. Tegumi, as in the formalized drills created by Patrick McCarthy Sensei for his Koryu Uchinadi program, are not part of our training. As for how it is practiced, obviously we have many techniques that are tegumi/muto methods, and we have a number of drills associated with them. It really comes alive when we start doing kakedameshi or kata randori, however, since you get to work with a resisting partner in a free-form manner. @ OneKickWonder - those would generally be called ippon kumite drills, or yakusoku kumite drills, and may or may not contain tegumi.

Welcome to the forum

There are times when large movements can be useful, but yes, in general, our uke-waza are pretty compact and close. I have definitely noticed a trend of Japanese styles to make their movements much larger. When I did Judo, it was explained to me that we learned all the throws in very large, exaggerated forms, because under the stress of competition, your movements tend to shrink, and I did find that to be the case. That is a reasonable explanation, but the difference is that the throws of Judo still work the way they are intended if you do them larger/exaggerated, but the uke-waza of karate don't, typically.

If you want to get really confused, my style dropped Passai Sho, renamed Passai Dai to be Passai Sho, then added a different version of Passai and called it Passai Dai. Because of that, our Passai Sho looks like pretty much everyone else's Passai/Bassai Dai: Our Passai Dai, which the founder of our style learned from the Tawada family, is often called Matsumura Passai, and looks a bit different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjnBtpyfzxA

Thank you!