Wastelander

I was originally taught the "push/pull" mechanics idea for hikite, and have come across many people teaching it since. While I understand how it can help emphasize the body rotation needed to generate power, I also don't find it to be necessary for that purpose. Boxers get plenty of torque on their punches without it, for example, and generally punch harder than most (though not all, obviously) karateka. I just don't see that hikite teaches or develops power generation any better than other methods. What it DOES do, though, is control the opponent far better than keeping your guard up. It also allows you to withdraw your hand if it is entangled with your opponent's arms, which can sometimes happen, so that you can strike again. Those are my two primary uses for it.

Thank you, everyone! Our most recent update on his condition isn't great, but we are still hopeful. The tumor turned out to be malignant, and there is still some of it in his brain, although the oncologist is optimistic about it. He is still asleep, and hasn't been able to wake up yet, but the doctors want to give him more time for that on his own. There are two damaged areas in his brain--the right temporal lobe and left frontal lobe. The rest of his brain tissue is healthy, and should hopefully be able to compensate for the damage. He still has a fever, as well, but they are keeping it in check.

Welcome to the forum!

I'm part of the Shorinkan because my Sensei is part of the Shorinkan, because his Sensei is part of the Shorinkan. It's a pretty straightforward process. Now, it doesn't always stay that way--sometimes people break away for their own reasons. It is nice to have certificates from the honbu dojo on Okinawa to "legitimize" ranks or titles, but as MatsuShinshii states, the lineage doesn't go away even if you leave the organization.

While I think most people here on KF know who I am, they may not know my Sensei, Richard Poage, except perhaps through our Waza Wednesday videos on YouTube. He is an amazingly talented and knowledgeable martial artist, and he has really shaped my understanding of karate, and guided my development, and he is like a brother to me. Last weekend, he went with another student and I out to San Diego to attend Iain Abernethy's seminar there. On the drive back to Phoenix, he had a seizure. Now, he has been having migraines and getting nauseous for the past month or two, but the seizure was new. We rushed him to a hospital, where they discovered a large tumor in his brain. He was airlifted to UC San Diego Health for emergency surgery, and has been in the Neurosurgery ICU there ever since. He has had two emergency surgeries to remove the tumor, and the hematoma it caused on the other side of his brain. He has drain tubes in his skull to reduce the swelling, a breathing tube to make sure the level of sedation needed to keep him asleep doesn't stop him from breathing, and a feeding tube to give him some nutrition. He has developed a lesion on his heart, and pneumonia, now, as well. This whole situation has been a huge shock to everyone--you don't expect a 32 year old professional martial artist to be suddenly taken down by a brain tumor. Unfortunately, as he is uninsured, the costs for his treatment are going to be astronomical. I have set up a GoFundMe to try and raise money to take care of some of it, so his family has one less thing to worry about, and Patrick has been kind enough to allow me to post about it here. If you can, we would greatly appreciate any donation you could make, and if you would share the fundraiser with your friends. Every little bit helps, and is truly appreciated. Thank you! https://www.gofundme.com/richard-poages-brain-surgery

Shishee is accomplished most efficiently by using chinkuchi. You can have one without the other, but chinkuchi will allow you to deliver your force as efficiently as possible.

Thank you for your post, Danielle, and happy half-birthday to the forum!

The word "kime" comes from "kimeru," which is "to decide" or "to succeed," which is more of a mental concept than a physical one. In martial arts, though, it tends to be used to refer to the lock-down of the body at the end of a strike. From my perspective, this is a matter of stopping the strike in the air, when it doesn't have a target to absorb the impact. Doing it when you actually hit things tends to reduce your power, because it is done to rapidly decelerate and stop the strike. Chinkuchi is more about the structure and alignment than stopping the technique, although a locking down of muscles is sometimes done to check chinkuchi.

It does tend to bother me that "bunkai" is used to describe what is actually "oyo," but I will admit that I generally consider "bunseki" to be part of the bunkai process. As far as I'm aware, even in Japan this is the case. Of course, with regard to kata application, I suspect the Japanese and Okinawans are using bunkai the way they hear Westerners use it. We could go with "tichiki" instead, if we wanted to be more "authentically Okinawan" by using Uchinaguchi

Tie it back, braid it up, or cut it off. I'm afraid that there isn't any magic fix for this issue

I was referring to tegumi/muto as a separate practice, rather than a component of karate, in this case. I do suspect that there was some degree of crossover over skills, but I would agree with you that such things are not part of the kata, however. I suppose Unsu could be seen as having a bit, with the drop to the floor and kicking up, but that's about it. There are a few examples of techniques done on the ground, such as can be seen in Itoman Morinobu's book, or even in the original printings of Funakoshi's. They aren't associated with kata, for the most part, though.

I tend to simplify the explanation down to positions and movements of the body that are as structurally stable and efficient as possible. Of course, you can get into things like chinkuchi lines vs. chinkuchi points, and the like.

Well I would say you are a huge leg up on us. I hate to admit this but it's included into our applications. It is taught as if you're executing the Kata on the ground. We are told that this was passed down and no one older than I will admit any differently but in my assessment someone at some point decided that a ground element was needed and made the Kata suite this need rather than it actually coming from the Kata. I will say some of the applications work and are effective but I don't buy into it being extracted from the Kata nor does my research support this. It is basically a hodge podge of techniques to get back to your feet. There is absolutely no viable techniques that would allow you to stay on the ground and battle an experienced grappler. I completely agree with that. I've seen a number of people insist that kata are passing on groundwork techniques (mostly Naihanchi), and my research does not support that as being historically accurate, nor does my experience with grappling support it. Now, there are certainly techniques and postures in kata that can be applied on the ground, but the mechanics are different. I don't mind people going "this grappling technique is like the one from this kata, but you do it this way on the ground." That's different from "Naihanchi is a groundfighting kata." There are some historical examples of groundwork techniques from karate--Itoman's book has a few, for example--but nothing nearly as involved as you see in Judo, BJJ, or wrestling. That's what tegumi/muto was for. Agreed. I assume that your reference to Muto/ Tegumi is in reference to throws, take downs, sweeps, off balancing techniques and the like and not ground fighting? If you do mean ground fighting I am definitely missing something and would love if you could point me in the right direction as my art and my research has never given me an example of ground fighting in terms of Muto/Tegumi. If this is the case I am very excited to learn how this translates and how wrong I've been in terms of my art not containing any real ground fighting skills. Can you clarify on this please? If I recall correctly, either Nagamine or Funakoshi, or possibly both, included mention of "pinning the opponent to the ground" in their description of tegumi, which would indicate at least some degree of groundwork. I could be wrong--I would have to dig through the books again.

Well I would say you are a huge leg up on us. I hate to admit this but it's included into our applications. It is taught as if you're executing the Kata on the ground. We are told that this was passed down and no one older than I will admit any differently but in my assessment someone at some point decided that a ground element was needed and made the Kata suite this need rather than it actually coming from the Kata. I will say some of the applications work and are effective but I don't buy into it being extracted from the Kata nor does my research support this. It is basically a hodge podge of techniques to get back to your feet. There is absolutely no viable techniques that would allow you to stay on the ground and battle an experienced grappler. I completely agree with that. I've seen a number of people insist that kata are passing on groundwork techniques (mostly Naihanchi), and my research does not support that as being historically accurate, nor does my experience with grappling support it. Now, there are certainly techniques and postures in kata that can be applied on the ground, but the mechanics are different. I don't mind people going "this grappling technique is like the one from this kata, but you do it this way on the ground." That's different from "Naihanchi is a groundfighting kata." There are some historical examples of groundwork techniques from karate--Itoman's book has a few, for example--but nothing nearly as involved as you see in Judo, BJJ, or wrestling. That's what tegumi/muto was for.

We actually do include a degree of newaza in our karate training, as well--mostly how to fall and how to extricate yourself from a variety of scenarios on the ground so you can get back to your feet. We do have a grappling program for those interested in more in-depth grappling training, although it is still supplemental for us. If someone wants a full grappling program, they would want to go cross-train, and we have some people who do.

As a Shorin-Ryu guy who does a handful of Goju-Ryu kata, I'll let a proper Goju-Ryu practitioner cover that one

I certainly do. Mawashi-geri isn't present in any of my Shorin-Ryu kata, although it is implicit in the Seiyunchin kata of Goju-Ryu, and can also be seen as an angled mae-geri, if you really want to justify it. Regardless, I enjoy it, and it suits a purpose. I'll occasionally work some other techniques for sport fighting, for fun, despite them not being in the kata. Most of my time is spent on the techniques found in kata, so occasionally working some things for fun isn't the end of the world. I also work some hand formations that aren't present in any of my kata--ipponken variants, for example--since they can easily augment my kata applications.

We do practice several lock flow drills, although it isn't a huge part of training. For me, the big value in them is developing the reaction to resistance to be able to transition to a different lock that is more appropriate for the situation. There are some that are good for transitioning to simply attack two joints in a row, of course, but my preferred approach is the transition based on resistance.

Congratulations, Danielle! I hope you enjoy the dinner, and your recovery goes well!

I think I know what you’re talking about, but I’m not 100% sure. Could you post a link for an example? If it’s what I’m thinking about, it’s for power generation. Why was it rejected by Funakoshi? It is for power generation, although it is often exaggerated in training, both for biomechanical study, and to account for the shrinking effect of stress/adrenaline. Not all Shorin-Ryu people use the hips that much, and some use it more. Just as an example of the range you can find, below are videos of Uema Yasuhiro, myself, and Shinzato Katsuhiko, all running Naihanchi Shodan, but with drastically different hip usage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBKAZ3WxX78 https://www.instagram.com/p/BbCed1qlJUW/?taken-by=karateobsession Plenty of Goju-Ryu people use the hips that way, as well. Also, some of the hardest punches I have seen thrown by Kyokushin fighters have been done with very effective "hip quaking," as we call it in our system, despite them not doing it in kata. To the best of my knowledge, it wasn't rejected by Funakoshi, and you can see some evidence of that in old Shotokan footage. Now, it is possible that Funakoshi Gichin didn't learn how to use the hips in that way, or wasn't very good at it, or simply didn't like it. I tend to think that, if he did know how to do it, the stances are what killed it in Shotokan. As we can see from his books, Funakoshi Gichin used the more natural Okinawan stances of Shorin-Ryu. It was his son, Funakoshi Gigo, that lowered and lengthened them to what we see today. The trouble is, once you make your stances as long and low as modern Shotokan has become, you CAN'T move your hips the way you are referring to. The hips simply don't have enough range of motion left. These stances also cause a lot of strain and wear on the hips and lower back, which is why so many senior practitioners of styles of karate that use such stances have bad hips and back pain, at least in my experience. That actually goes to your second post regarding their ability to kick--it's hard to kick well if your hips are in pain. Now, that is easily adjusted by going back to higher, more natural stances as you age, regardless of the style you practice, but I know plenty of dojo where such compromise isn't acceptable, so that could be an issue in that regard.

For those who aren't familiar, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu (aka "Miss Gangster Knee") is an American Muay Thai fighter who moved to Thailand to live and train several years ago, with the goal of having 100 fights in Thailand. Yesterday, she completed her 200th fight--it was a kard cheuk fight, which is where the competitors fight with rope hand wraps instead of gloves, and you can only win by knockout (anything else is a draw). Before Sylvie, there had only been one other female kard cheuk fight, and she has now had three of them, I believe. I just thought some folks here might find it inspiring. https://www.facebook.com/sylviemuaythai/photos/a.134623809905091.17999.127492557284883/1801935283173927/?type=3&theater

I would absolutely continue trying to teach everything, for the very reason you mention. I would rather have the possibility of sparking someone's interest and dedication to the art, then just assume they are going to leave and abandon them.

Everyone is going to have their own perspective on that, and it will also change depending on the person performing the kata. For me, you have to bear in mind that I practice Shorin-Ryu, so from my perspective Shotokan took the kata I practice and did weird things to them. Now, that is nothing against Shotokan practitioners--I am friends with a number of them, and they are dedicated, hard-training, knowledgeable people, and they are very good at Shotokan. Shotokan just doesn't look that good from a Shorin-Ryu perspective, at least to me. My opinion doesn't matter, though, to anyone but me in this regard. I hope that everyone practicing Shotokan enjoys it, and feels good about it!

Obviously, material has to be taught in a certain progression in order for understanding to really be developed, but I don't consider that holding back. If someone asks a question that would result in an explanation they may not be able to understand, I'll still show them, or at least give a basic explanation, and tell them that we will build up to that eventually. Personally, I think the "hold things back until a successor is chosen" is a bad idea. The situation with Oyata Sensei and Logue Sensei, for modern example.

You certainly fight how you train but, as I mentioned, self defense situations are quite a bit unlike sport fighting and the way most people spar. The longer, lower stances are often used in a very close-range context--standing grappling, or clinching, for example. Sometimes, they are used to take the opponent down, or move the opponent, or prevent yourself from being moved or taken down, for example. The kokutsu-dachi you point out as being someone nobody would use in a no-holds-barred fight, for example, is absolutely a stance I have seen used in mixed martial arts, as well as judo, sumo, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai--the list goes on. Next time you watch an MMA fight with lots of clinchwork or fighting against the cage, take some time to watch it frame by frame, and you will be surprised just how many karate stances show up. As I said before, though, the stances of karate are NOT meant for you to just stand in and move around. They are snapshots of positions used to make your techniques work, and you may only be in them for a split second.