Kirves

If he stands in a low stance, his lack of mobility is an issue, so use that for your advantage. If he goes for your legs, well, there are lots of counter moves to that in wrestling, jujutsu, etc.

Haha! As I said, generally, I agree with you. Just that when things get a bit complicated, it is hard to communicate without slight misunderstandings. Then one tries to make a point by repeating it and that is annoying for both parties. It is 0:40 AM here and I am going to bed. Oh, BTW, you said: " he will actually be defending himself in the street with no rules", often there are rules, a cop, a guard, a bouncer, a prison guard, whatever, must obey the laws and do things "by the book", so actually there are rules that bind the hands of the pro but not the hands of the criminal. Haha! Just had to find something to throw at ya! I guess we agree to agree on this issue, so I rest my case.

It helps if it is intuitive. But it can also help even if it isn't. You know, even the guy who hasn't trained any MA may win a fight, if he thinks up a strategy "hey, I'll fake a punch and kick his groin". Even it wasn't intuitive, and even he had to think about it, it might just work. You never know. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Having been trained helps. Having trained so long that the techniques are intuitive helps even more. There are never guarantees.

He didn't fight in tournaments. But he "fought", i.e. sparred full contact with people like Chuck Norris, Gene LeBell, Dan Inosanto and so on. They all say he was awesome. Norris was a full contact champion at the time, able to keep up with the heavy weights like Joe Lewis, yet admits he got beat up by Lee pretty good every time they sparred. Based on the guidelines that Bruce left you for that very purpose: Jeet Kune Do Concepts. And when you go study JKD, you will be taught the base too, usually Jun Fan Kungfu is used as the base, though this varies from instructor to instructor. Somehow I get the idea, that you haven't completely understood what JKD is all about. My guess is you haven't studied under any JKD instructor for any time, am I right? These issues would be a lot more clearer to you if you knew what JKD is all about. Jeet Kune Do is not a fighting style, it is a set of concepts, and a philosophy.

Very true. But my intention for this thread was not determining how to test who's the best fighter, but how to test an art for street self defence. But I agree with your post in general.

I use any one of them when appropriate to the situation at hand. You must not intentionally limit your options. If I can stop him with kicks, fine. If he gets to punching range, I try to drop him with my hands. If it gets to trapping, I use my elbows, knees and headbutts. If he starts grabbing, I take him down, and so it goes. Whatever it takes to stop him.

Who trained like that in 60&70s? In my style, more rules were added after that! I study a full contact knockdown karate style, which no longer allowes bare-knuckle face punches or grappling, but they were both allowed in the 60s. And see how Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, Bruce Lee and their pals trained in the 60s: full contact!

And the fact that one looks okay, doesn't mean he doesn't have some hidden health problem. So much is up to nutrition, lifestyle, genes, general lifestyle. Just because he's one tough cookie on the mat, doesn't mean he's healthy as a horse.

Those are often called "pistols" - very brutal!

All good martial arts (except those focusing on sport only) incorporate tactics that can be categorized as hillbilly wrestling. Krav Maga, Kali/Escrima, Ninjutsu, Systema and so on, all have their methods of using the surroundings to your advantage.

Usually you lose more in the beginning and then it slows down to 2-4 pounds per month.

Check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1931229279/qid=1055950800/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/104-9643783-5871906 It shows numerous stand-up self-defence methods from BJJ. It also has chapters fully explaining how BJJ handles self-defence situations and how it's tournament tactics differ from them. If you think the BJJ self-defence methods shown in the book are somehow limited, then by all means, complement from another art, or drop BJJ from your curriculum altogether. Many people have this weird idea that BJJ is nothing but rolling on the ground, but that is just the sport. Some classes focus on sport, others self-defence. The difference is only in the rules. PS. One of the reviews at Amazon.com for the book said this: Though another reviewer said this book was bad because it only showed self-defence methods and not BJJ at all. He had obviously only trained with sport rules. Some BJJ schools do just that.

Ahem. It "might" be difficult for any one of us, even Bruce Lee himself!

Yeah, to grow stronger muscles, you have to go hard. If you go hard enough, there's no way you're going to continue with 300 push-ups after you just blasted the same muscles. If you want strength, then you have to go for the last rep. When you hit your rep target (say 10 reps), then the next time you add small percentage (1-10 pounds, depending on the exercise) to the weight and aim to get 10 reps again. When you get the 10 reps, the next time you add weight again. If you can perform 300 pushups after that, you certainly didn't go for the maximum reps in the strength session!

"Super Squats", by Strossen.

A person should not train in martial arts unless he is aware of and accepts the risks involved. And he should not do sparring unless accepting the risks. Same thing with all things in life. If you don't want to risk getting into a car accident, don't get into a car. There's always a risk, and you have to decide wether or not to chance it.

Or, like most do, study under someone who did that. The percentage of us who actually train for tournaments or make a career change is quite small, so the next best thing is to make sure our instruction comes from someone who knows the reality and teaches accordingly. Now, it's time to shut up and train.

Reality check! Here a couple of suggestions: go ask if your local library has the "Skid Row Beat" or "Crouching Tiger" by Loren W. Christensen. There are some real life stories about cop work in some of the worst neighborhoods of the world. The criminals in such places don't give a rat's rear end about "the authority" - or the consequences. Depends on the ring. But agreed, ring experience is good. Looking forward to it!

Yes. But if we keep the point of this thread at wether or not a certain art/style works on the street, then the outcome is better determined by going to the street (as a cop, guard, bouncer, ...) than by going to the ring. I do agree, that a person who is reluctant or unable to go to the street, and who nevertheless wants to test his own skills personally, for him the ring is the place to go. But that's not my point at all. My point is this: Does Silat work on the streets? How about karate? How about Wing Chun? The tournament fighters say these absolutely won't work because they aren't seen in the rings. But which is more important, wether you see them work in the ring, or if you see them work on the streets? If a whole police department can survive for 50 years teaching nothing but Wing Chun to it's officers, shouldn't that tell us something? If the officers working there all say the stuff works when you-know-what hits the fan? If I want to study self defence, I'd rather ask the guy who's actually had to defend himself over decades against actual street encounters and criminals, while having to do it "by the book" while at it, than the guy who won the local tournament. Of course, that was not being disputed.

There is this huge argument going for tournament fighting being the closest thing to a real street fight. Unless you go to a street fight, of course. So why don't you go to the street instead to prove your point? Many people say that's not wise. If you go to the streets looking for trouble, you'll probably find it, and either the trouble will take care of you, or the police. Right? There is one way to find out, though. There is a way to legally experience the streets. And what's that, I hear you ask. C'mon, no bells ringing? Okay I'll help you out: you can experience the street by making it a career to keep the streets safe. Simple as that. Become a cop. Or a security guard. Or work the door of a club. Or some other similar options. Make certain choices along the career path, and you can test your skills legally against the worst of the streets! Why do I bring this up? Because so many people ignore this completely, when they claim all the "untested traditional arts" are unrealistic, while the ring-tested mixed styles are realistic. Untested by whom, I ask! Why don't you ask people who actually work the streets, everyday. For example, I am quite fond of books written by a traditional martial artist Loren W. Christensen. He has decades of real life experience, both policing the drunk and unruly in Vietnam, as well as policing some of the baddest streets and cities on Earth! How's he done? Still alive and kicking, telling everyone what he's learned from his experiences. Same kind of experience can be found from all round, if you look for it. Many people actually test these "untested, unproven, non-tournament" styles on the streets everyday, for years on. That is one hekk of a track record! And definitely more realistic test of the methods than the ring. The ring is still good though... So, the point of this is: if you want to know if a certain art is realistic for the streets, you have these options: 1. Illegally fight on the streets (pick up fights from some bad people) 2. Legally fight on the streets (become a cop, a guard, a bouncer, etc) 3. Listen to people who have done either of the previous options (read books, attend seminars, read articles, etc.)

and Bruce studied grappling among some of the greatest at the time, remember Gene LeBell?

But his whole point was that you shouldn't be studying HIS art, but to create your OWN. What makes it JKD instead of you just cross-training, is that you use the Jeet Kune Do Concepts that Bruce Lee developed as a guide towards creating your personal style.

BJJ does have standup defences and throws, but because of sport focus, often most of the training is done on the ground. Depends a little on the instructor's preference too. MT is good for stand-up game, BJJ complements this by being good on the ground. Kali is good when dealing with weapons. I wish all women knew BJJ, then rapists would have hard time finding easy victims...

If you are one of those who frequently find yourself bashing other schools, instructors, arts and so on, and try to convert people to your view, here's a good read: http://www.jkdunlimited.com/off4.htm

That is the smartest thing said in this thread!