Kirves

Hahahaa!

Why was the ninja whistling? Aren't ninjas supposed to be Silent Warriors ? My guess is that your ninja is a fraud.

LOL Thanks!

Good points GreenDragon, but it is understandable that if someone sees constant bashing at one's art, he may want to know the "why". And that is exactly what this thread is about: why some people bash the traditional arts (like karate's kata here)? We aren't here discussing wether or not kata is bad, but thinking about the reasons why someone would think that is is.

Who here has been to some kind of army? Any military service will do. Please tell some details (where, when, what).

Good for you, but I think we understood the first time.

I agree. Apples make my stomach ache. I'll take the "mess" of oranges anyway over the ache from apples.

Did you try to right click and choose "save as...". If you just left click the link, it may seem like it doesn't work as it takes time to download. Also, is your Media Player up to date?

Whose books or articles have influenced or helped your martial arts career the most? And if you can elaborate on the "why" part, all the better.

Give us an update when something happens in the legal battlefield.

Yes, but styles like Kyokushin don't carry much of the old kata bunkai with them at all. Thus as said earlier, karate wasn't originally designed for fighting against other expert arts, but some (many) of the modern arts are. And as with Kyokushin, it can be seen from the adoption of wider array of training methods.

Welcome.

Good point, TJS. Very true. When I hacked kata training into three bits, that's exactly what I meant too. The bit 1 (= read the kata) = solo training - some stick to this only The bit 2 (= practice with partner) = practice on non-resisting partner - this is what you pointed out, some go this far The bit 3 (= practice with resisting partner) = free contact sparring - only few do this too

Good. Good.

Geesh, if he can get up close, then very effective, if he can't then not effective at all. Like nite and day. I punch and kick, elbow and knee. In judo they grab, toss and roll. Couldn't be more different. All the time.

Bruce wins in real life, but Chackie in reel life. IMO Chackie's movies and choreographies beat those of Lee's hands down anyday.

Yeah, when I train at home, I try to make it as realistic as possible, jeans and a collar shirt are just as good as any clothes for a technique workout. Of course, when I'm not doing technique, but just fitness, I wear whatever is most practical and comfortable.

I never have worn my gi if I wasn't training at the dojo. And I wouldn't dream of not changing it in the locker room, as it is wet as a swamp after a class. I have literally squeezed it a bit drier before putting it back into the bag for going home. There is always a small pond on the floor where I do that.

Ditto!

It is also matter of training methods. If you go to TJJ class, you will have to stay there for years before free sparring is the norm. In MMA circuits free sparring is considered essential in learning to apply the methods. TJJ uses lots of old training methods (mostly partner-kata, ...) and rarely any modern methods (mits, bags, helmets, full contact free sparring, ...) and that makes many MMA people look elsewhere.

Many people regard kata as useless, because they don't understand them. And they're not to blame, it is the incorrect instruction that is given in way over half of available karate schools on the matter of kata. Originally kata was a textbook. It is the book on self-defence tactics that was written by a master. But back then writing, publishing and distributing books wasnt' as easy as today, so they wrote kata instead. The point remains, kata is to be read like a book on self defence methods. You don't buy such a book, read it and then think you can apply the methods. Of course, as common sense dictates, you use the book only as a source, and you actually train the methods with live people. That is what kata is for: in the old days, the mere saying "I train kata" meaned you read the kata (=solo form practice), practiced it (=kata bunkai kumite) and applied it (=kumite). But today, people have gotten it mixed up and think "kata training" just means the solo practice. It is like you read a book on techniques but never actually train them or apply them. You can't use them that way. Kata is only good, if you read it, practice it and apply it. The last two bits are done with live people who, in the last bit are resisting opponents. Also, many people can't even read. There are lots of misconceptions about kata, where some see a block, another one sees a takedown and someone sees a superninja-dimmak-deathtouch technique... So, first you must know what the kata means, then you must learn to apply it. Just reading (solo practice) won't get you anywhere.

Well, when I wrote the poll, I sort of grouped that into the "fun" category. I didn't mean "fun" as in having a picnic, I meant "fun" as in "making the mind and psyche satisfied" as opposed to the physical objectives in the other options.

Not meant for fighting other arts, would roughly translate (in my mind) into as being designed to counter the common fight attacks of the untrained man. That is, not the fake jab, quick uppercut, knockout hook -combinations seen in the ring, but the shove-and-haymaker type combos often seen in brawls between untrained fighters. Right? If we are on the same page here, then I believe this to be correct up to a point. That is, the kata bunkai self defence seems to be that way. The modern karate styles that focus more on sparring, though are not like this.

I never implied they didn't. I merely mean that for a MMA fighter, i.e. the guy who wants to participate in NHB tournaments, traditional jujutsu may not be the best option because it focuses slightly on different kinds of attacks than are most commonly seen in the ring. And also I feel, many of the attacks that jujutsukas train against a lot, just aren't seen on the streets that often. But as you pointed out, many are. It was not my intention to bash jujutsu or claim it isn't effective, just try to give an explanation to why MMA people mix lots of arts but rarely include much of traditional jujutsu in the mix. Just my .2c

Me too. I was always very secretive about the methods, because I was afraid of his astral spies.