I agree with what you say,but I do have to question this,don't you mean the ignorant fight to lose?I don't find anything ignorant about wanting to win. Sometimes a person has no choice but to fight in order to defend themselves and I'd rather win then get the crap kicked out of me.It would be stupid to fight and want to lose,in that case why even bother defending yourself? Hello MT, It's not my quote but one from Zhuge Liang, what I think the writer is saying is that those who acquire knowledge and skills realize that violence is meaningless while those who don't will fight all their lives never achieving true inner peace. Kinda deep huh? IMHO Greg