Himokiri Karate

please tell me your fan of Steve Fox If you are then you do what boxers used to do and that is fighting in the phone booth.

John Timothy Keehan, aka “Count Dante,” comes to mind. See also the excellent YouTube videos “What is a McDojo?” and “What is a McDojo? Revisited” by Mr. Dan at Art of One Dojo. Count Dante was super awesome in terms of he is a black comedy blockbuster that is long over due to be made in Hollywood. But to be fair and I cant believe I am semi-defending him but he was a legit black belt and had solid boxing skills. I also read his Dim Mak book and he made a fair point of the "secret" of martial arts and Dim Mak all comes down to endless repetition and perseverance in the mundane lifestyle of martial arts training. My mind at this moment is flip flopping right now: 1. At one point, I agree with Sensei8 that you should honor your lineage and never resort to this type of shenanigans. This leads to escalation of more and more tomfoolery and it undermines the characteristics and the spirit of being a martial artist and being in a martial arts community. 2. The other side is Dojos, they may not be McDojo but they may have turned out to be horrible human beings and a brown belt might have immense skill to surpass them and if there is a proof of ascension in skills, then I mean its ok to self-promote if and I mean ONLY IF there is transparency of self-promotion. Context is the key to see if the situations are redeeming or not

True I agree that a great fighter is not a great teacher or a even a good one. I agree that one black belt in one school may not hold water in another. This is correct because great technique is truly transcending regardless of style and rank. Also there is a human aspect involved. I mean someone may not be a good fighter with good technique but if they have excellent character then we can or we tend to have a rosy view of them and we tend to look at their best aspect. I believe its called a halo effect in respect to seeing the best aspect of someone you take a liking to as a human being. Of course honesty, compassion and fairness of a person's character makes them or should I say adds to their status. A black belt at your school maybe someone you work or train alongside with. Someone can be a fantastic black belt but a bad person and that can really be a bad scenario if you have to deal with them on daily basis. I agree with the fact that technique needs to be sharp and the Karateka needs to be able to demonstrate their skills with them. I tend to agree with Bob in that not all black belts can teach, but I do think that when asked, a black belt should be able to demonstrate their knowledge and an ability to relate that knowledge to some extent. As far as being competent in boxing or grappling goes, I don't necessarily agree. Those are two different disciplines, and to spend too much time trying to hone boxing and grappling skills takes away from honing Karate skills and methods. I think you allow them to explore those things on their own. But, I do think that some exposure to them, based off your own knowledge, training, and experience, can be beneficial to their training. If you want all of your Karateka to be super athletes, then you'll have to be selective about the kinds of students you train. You'll want to train natural athletes, those who are explosive and fast. Personally, I wouldn't do yoga, even for free. I do strength training on my own, because I find value in it. But I don't force those things on my students, especially as black belt requirements, because not all of them have the time or desire to put the time into doing those things. For sure, they are beneficial, but forcing them on students will probably end up limiting the student pool you get. And the fact of the matter is that not everyone can or will become a "super athlete." Especially the older population. This is admirable, but again, I don't think attainable by everyone. There are people who, talented as they may be physically, just aren't geared that way psychologically. It's the whole sheep, sheepdog, and wolf principle. But, I do think it is possible to train this to an extent, yet mileage will vary depending on the individual. This is admirable, and is what I think all styles should be working towards. Our school has been taking steps to work on more self-defense oriented things, and I think it is going to pay dividends. The students seem to be enjoying it, and seeing applications and discussing actual situational issues stimulates the students in thinking about their techniques in different ways. This is a tough one. I think it's important for students to understand coming into it that Karate and MMA training are two very different things. MMA is much more focused on things like pad work and drilling with partners, moving in the ring, etc. I think encouraging students to go experience that kind of training would be very beneficial. I like the thoughts behind the path you want to put before your students. Just putting in writing shows that you have a plan, and shows that it matters to you what and how your students do and perform. I think it's great. Great points, one thing to add about athletes and its good point that you mentioned lowering the talent pool of a dojo. This is valid and it ties in to my self defense aspect. See when its all said and done, and I mean at the very end of the day where I go to sleep and lie in bed waiting to fall asleep. I have a recollection of my days and the actions that occurred. For me, as a boxing/karate specialist ( low level sambo/grappler) I can live with the fact that I go out there in sparring or what have you, I employ my moves and I end up coming up short. But if my students learn my moves and they fall short, then I end up with a guilty conscious of leaving a stone unturned and that somewhere in their training, neglect took place on my part since my students got hurt under my training. Hence I contemplate that if I keep a tight ship, I end up limiting my students to natural athletes of sort but it also absolves me of over promising results like lots of dishonest martial arts masters that promise things they cant deliver. Yet another conflicting side of me is, I should be able to take a feeble and weak student and turn them in to very strong karateka ( with well rounded skills) that can fight. To that end, I am studying recovery tactics from brutal training like cold/hot showers, meditation, yin yoga as well as other recovery methods and nutrition so students are training super hard but they are out-recovering their hard work which leaves them with a healthy motivated spirit. I appreciate the kind words man, I really want what's best for my students and teammates. If this was pre-Covid this thread wouldn't have been made. I joined this forum in 2009 and by that time I was deep in MMA and boxing. Belts meant nothing to me at that point. But now I see how much it means to other people and I see how people "buy" their belts and end up with supreme confidence. This is not bad because their confidence allows them to do well in business, employment, family and social situations and so that McDojo black belt gave that individual a metaphoric purpose of becoming a more well put together individual. But mother of mercy, right now it feels like purge, people are getting sucker punched, yesterday 4 people got stabbed from a place that is a 5 minute walk from my usual route. Yet this violence is not slowing down and I listened to Jordan Peterson and he talked about becoming a "monster" to deal with other "monsters" and I feel like that is the case with my situation.

To me, I have never ever in my entire life have heard someone giving themselves a promotion. To me its not so much bad or disgusting but like extremely super strange and weirdest thing to do ever. In my town, what folks do in Kung Fu or even kickboxing is, they just go to an organization or a teacher that teaches a form of karate/taekwondo/tang soo do and they get a rank, belt and certification to pad their resume. I seen some submission wrestlers/MMA grappling specialist do this, they may go to BJJ or judo or some other forms of hybrid jujitsu and get a belt. But usually they spend sometime learning the no gi way and then in sparring or I guess rolling, they earn their keep. Its a funny situation, some guys fight in MMA and kickboxing. Yet they feel the need to have that belt ranking. But for someone to promote themselves? That is just mind bending. Another case I remember ( not in my town) was a guy who was well known in America, he promoted himself to "Great grandmaster" and he also made himself "12th dan" which I thought it was more of a comedic thing. I mean we have MMA as a prominent sport and that is a mix of all martial arts. Yet some folks still have the need for grandiose title. Don't make sense because of how popular MMA is. Do you know anyone famous who has done this?

I have been contemplating this question and going over and over as well as over it again. I want to know what it truly means to be a karate black belt. My answer comes in three parts: 1. Skills: Technique has to be sharp and karateka must have full range of techniques and exercises to strengthen said techniques that can be sharpened to a higher degree. Also to competent in boxing and grappling. 2. Physical: Fast, strong, powerful, flexible, agile. A super athlete. A karateka who follows physical culture from yoga to strength training as well as plyometrics and any type of training that leads to increase athletic prowess. Also not to get Hojo Undo and bone conditioning. I will also take the global approach of teaching them ballet exercises. 3. Fighting: This is psychology of an individual. A karateka who has aggression but also courage and tenacity to fight back on top of the first two criteria as his support system to not just be a street brawler but a true karateka known for their fierceness. I am going to teach soon and my BIGGEST worry is to not prepare them for the real world. I do not want them to just be confident but to also be able to protect themselves outside. God knows my hometown is getting more and more dangerous and the last thing I want is an insecure student gaining confidence that was built on unrealistic training. Another worry is the fact that if my students want to do MMA and they get trashed around by kickboxers and other stylists. This can lead in to feeling betrayed and so I am planning to have an open door policy. They are not only welcomed to try other styles but are encouraged because I want my style and my teaching to survive and thrive against other styles. I am open for any suggestions or anything else I missed. I thought about character and morality. I plan on making sure they use the Japanese etiquette but aside from that, a bad person will be a bad person regardless if they practice yoga or Tai Chi. Only thing I can do is, train them so hard that they are too exhausted to act on their malicious nature.

The only time I feel is ok is if you are a bad bad man in sparring with great technique and overwhelming power. Yet the politics of a style gets in your way and so you break out, come up with your own style and promote yourself in that new style. I mean when other Karate masters branch off to their own style, they still promote themselves Dan wise so why not? Of course this can be a horrible thing as well because it can lead in to McDojo and what have you.

Joe Mcaffey of Brazilian jujitsu made a big splash some time ago when he decided to promote himself to brown belt because he felt the politics was holding him down and that his teachers that he once respected and revered are not the person he thought they were. The whole thing made me...freeze! Like I never encountered a scenario with an instructor who said and did such a thing. Now here is the thing, as distasteful as this was in my eyes, I am trying to see his or a perspective of what he did. Like lets say a karateka is great at fighting and a great student but the teacher for some reason holds them down, would it be alright for that student to leave and give himself a promotion if it turns out his/her teacher is not the best person? I know this is a weird situation because giving out belts=McDojo which= bad while the opposite seems more benevolent but not without context of the situation. What do you make of this situation? Encountered this in the karate world?

You can make a movie from this post. I enjoyed it a great deal. The whole Jesse claims of karate kicks coming from savate was the first time hearing it. It did through me off guard. I did make a comment that the high kicks have been influenced by Kung Fu and that Kung Fu also inspired Tang Soo Do which means the way of the Chinese hand. I got a like from him which was nice because he is a big star. I also want everyone in karateforum to know this fact about me and its important and that is, I personally recite the history I have heard, lots of this martial arts origins is something I love to study but like most folks, I get it from the internet. The only history I got is from my sambo master who is a third generation sambo fighter. He has been deeply involved and sambo has had multi origin before it became a singular entity. I like to think that many singular styles have multi origin. A substyle may develop to a stand alone fighting style. Someone's secondary boxing style maybe another boxers specialty. Some fighters specialize standing sideway from start to finish and others square up and occasionally go sideways.

I hear it being talked about here and there but this style seems to be something a local kung fu master came up with but it never got expanded enough for it to be a style with a rich tradition.

I had heard this as well. Wado Heretic: that was a fantastic post. If I could nominate a post of the year, that would be it. Very knowledgeable response with great information. I think to say that "Karate comes from Kung Fu" is a very blanket statement, and altogether untrue. Karate has been influenced by different styles over the years, like Kung Fu, to be sure. It is well known that those practitioners on Okinawa had contact with Chinese stylists, learned from them, and adapted to what they did. But to say that Karate comes from Kung Fu is to do a disservice as to what the Okinawan stylists also applied to the arts they studied and perpetuated. I have heard many conflicting stories. The stories I hear is: Okinawan martial arts got fused with shaolin kung fu. Another I hear is, everything that is karate is kung fu and that kung fu means chinese hands remained empty hands. A popular YouTuber of Karate genre made a video in regards to karate stealing their kicks from savate. Some say that karate is only tiger/crane kung fu. Many stories are told to explain the origins of karate. In the IP man movie, Karate was called "Japanese Kung Fu" by one of the karateka. I hear it being associated so much that I too have gotten brainwashed. Technically you are correct, the okinawans had Tegumi as one of the original styles. The "te" influenced what we have is "karate" its also grappling heavy and so it is a major contribution to karate.

Thanks and great to see you again Fat Cobra. I have become a big fan of fat cobra. One of the coolest characters in Marvel!

I have heard about it but I have never seen a video or any form of publication that talks about what it is about. Has anyone experienced this style.

Thanks for reply guys. Good points on pragmatism. In real life situation you have to be explosive as possible. Of course in the dojos that intensity needs to be turned down a whols lot. Karate comes from Kung fu like pangai noon and crane and tiger. I suppose crane is the yin animal. I find that when I practice kung fu it is not practical for fighting but it feels very restorative in nature. It also creates a better soil in whuch my karate and boxing can grow.

I have always heard about Karate being powerful, dynamic and linear. Meanwhile Kung Fu has yin and yang. Hard and soft styles. Curios to know, are there any styles of karate who utilize gentle moves and less dynamic? The only example is Mr. Miyagi who is the embodiment of Yin and he dodges and parries violent attacks. Of course this is a movie character but I always thought that Karate has yin styles as well. For whatever reason Google is not giving me anything substantial My only source is Wikipidea and their chart shows that Kyokushin is extremely hard and others are mixed. But I have not seen a Yin Karate and I ask because I know there are many styles of karate that are still obscure.

Thank you so much, I am honored! I really love the wholesome, sincere and passionate posters of this forum. I will continue to share and learn as much as I can in regards to Karate styles of Kyokushin and Tang Soo Do as well as their ancestor art of kung fu. In my journey, one person that inspired me is a boxing master named Ricardo Lopez. Undefeated as an amateur and professional. I believe that every stylist of every art can learn or be inspired by his skills. This made me realize that sometimes it not about the art but the individual that innovates great moves through having a great mind and being around great minded people. Also congratulations to you Patrick for all your effort, passion and quality control. I was looking at wayback machine for a kickboxing school from the 2000s and it showed how your forum came to the scene guns and blazing. This was before facebook or any social media. The world of forum is not what is used to be but this place is always lively and with quality posters.

Welcome to the forum Bob. Sounds like you got yourself a makiwara. That's good! The only thing I can think of is the Shaolin newspaper on the wall. A thick layer of paper on the wall for you to hit. Of should not take room since it's on the wall I will check it out to see if I can come up with other ideas.

In sport karate/kickboxing. I have seen them having tons of belts. This is what I remember: 1.White 2.Yellow 3.High yellow 4.Orange 5.High orange 6.Green 7.High green 8.Blue 9.High blue 10.Brown 11.High brown 12.Low black 13.Black belt These dojos are not bad in terms of technique but they do love to get that paper. As I get older, I am oddly becoming more alright with it because I know how tough it is to make a living. As long as they are learning proper technique then it wont bother me if they have some cash money marketing tactics.

100 percent allowed! Bruce Lee cross trained, the founder of Kyokushin Karate trained with judo legend Masahiko Kimura. Tang Soo Do is takkeyon mixed with Kung Fu, then it got mixed with Karate. This makes it a mixed martial arts of sorts. I will be teaching soon and I want to make sure what I teach to students is extremely solid and that they can go to a boxing gym or a karate dojo or any striking martial arts and be able to pull of what I have to teach them.

Yes sir! That's it! This is the best option, to me its karate technique meets boxing with power and precision intact. My idea is in my signature which is the creed of Himokiri karate. Of course, to me with passing of time, a technique is a technique, a style is a toolbox that offers various tools. For me the idea of and tenet is most important, for all I care it could be Himokiri Kung Fu or Himokiri Hikuta. For me, the only thing that is really extremely important is footwork and a strong guard for face protection. My students can throw kicks in variety of ways, they can lift the knee and extend or just throw it like a leg raise. The most important thing is, their chin/spine is being protected by a solid guard and their footwork is solid and stable so in the worse case scenario they wont get rocked too badly if they miss and get hit with a counter. My goal is to teach my style based on the Legendary undefeated amateur and professional boxing champ Ricardo Lopez This man has such a solid foundation, his stance in his base form is not square or side ways but 45 degrees and can square up for offense or sideway for defense. This man works magic and the moment I started emulating and studying his technique, I felt the improvement. As far as myself goes, I do not have any special martial arts mind or a street fighting genius who can adapt with some insanely talented reflexes. I am just a man who is taking other successful models and is trying to replicate it for myself and my students. I look forward to posting videos, is there a way to post videos in this forum? I want to be more active and really learn to articulate my teachings which is good for me as well because it allows me to really think about the things I am trying to teach and preach.

For those who teach public and private. Do you see a great difference between private student vs public student? One thing I love about private lesson is, the teacher gets to know me as a human being. Not just my name or character but my body type as well as psychology. I find this+ sparring sessions to be very useful but again, this is just me and I don't want to impose my personal experience as a universal fact. So with that in mind, how do you feel about private students and big classes?

My question would be, did you really come up with a new style, or are you presenting the style(s) you've learned in your way? I think this is a big difference, and I think this tends to be the natural order of things when it comes to MA training, especially done over the course of many years. We learn our base first. We all have a start somewhere. How long, how rich, and how deep those beginnings are end up being different for everyone. But by and large, I feel that many practitioners that think of themselves as "starting a new style" are really just presenting their version of how they've come to understand the style they've learned. I think this is a kind of natural order of things, as we all learn and do things differently, and different approaches work better for some than others. As we teach our students, we'll see these kinds of changes take place in them, too. As was mentioned by other posters, a trial lesson or two are a good idea, but not too many more than that. Wado Heretic also made a good point about the kinds of students you are going to get. This will be strongly based off your teaching style, methods, syllabus, and the demographics available to you. Older practitioners have different focuses than younger ones. But that doesn't mean that as you go along you can't find the adjustments to make to be flexible to both. As for the fighting aspect. If that is something you want to do, and have the time to pursue, for your own personal enjoyment, then do it. But I would not do it for the sake of your school. Do it for your own sake. Great post. I hope I haven't misinterpreted anything within it in my responses. My post starts below: (not sure what happened) Truth is, I can never come up with a new style per say, it is just fun playful names. Ultimately speaking, my style is based on Kyokushin Karate and Boxing in respect to delivery system. But I am an extreme believe of Kung Fu forms and static training. Holding positions and learning to breath is an important foundation. I am selling boxing and karate +judo/sambo takedowns/throws ( the ones that I am good at) that I learned from my mentor. I have zero interest in the ground game and would like to focus on standing techniques and getting back to the feet. Tons of my training will be focused on footwork. Also worth mentioning is, my boxing and karate are somewhat separate and yet together. Its very important to teach my students barehanded strikes like Hiraken, Nukite, Ipponken and Seiken. But I also want them to have proper boxing foundation. Another thing is, I want to avoid kickboxing, if my students wear boxing gloves, they are boxing, if smaller gloves, they are doing karate. I dont want this to turn in to PKA kickboxing due to the importance of training with barehands.

So true! I noticed that oddly enough, no one really cares about the fighting aspect. Almost decade ago, I would dabble in boxing exhibitions and seen many guys fight. Believe it or not, most folks don't really have interest in watching local fights. In these local events or "smokers" as they call it, you had an audience but people were distracted and it wasn't like some big event like the UFC. Of course its different if the levels are higher or if there is a rival school with a storyline going at each other. Thanks for encouragement, my biggest fear is failing my student as a teacher. I have to make sure they get their stance and footwork down. This is very important and non-negotiable for me. At the same time, I have to make sure they are burning calories and having fun. I agree with Hojo undo, they need to have body toughening exercises as well to give them not just a sportive taste of karate/boxing but to give them a classical conditioning that is somewhat becoming obscure. Maintaining integrity across the board at all times. Without established integrity there's no style, no CI, no effectiveness, no nothing. With established integrity, then there's no disrespecting a current lineage, if not disrespecting a current lineage is important. In short, lineage doesn't administrate in any shape, way, and/or form, and having said that, TEACH, that's the main focus of any CI. Everything else can sit on the back burner until that, whatever that might be, needs to be addressed. Integrity first rule...teaching second rule...remembering rule #1. Himokiri Karate wrote: A Free Trail lesson, but not free lessons beyond that. You've an overhead, no matter how insignificant that overhead is. The most Free Trail Lessons that I'd ever give would be 3. After that, pay to learn. If you treat you and your dojo and your style as a cheap free ride, what will students and prospective students have an impression of the package?! Again, integrity. Pay to play!! Himokiri Karate wrote: That's your soul decision to make. EFFECTIVENESS is what should be taught by the CI and what should be learned by the Student Body. Imho. Regarding free lessons, my biggest worry is, in the beginning, I am not going to be a good teacher. In spirit of being new on the job, I thought perhaps I should give away free lessons to see if what I have to teach is worth paying for. Although, my current boxing trainer had this amazing idea, first lesson was 20 dollars for half an hour. After that, it was 120 dollars an hour. But the first lesson was there to get you to the door and it worked on me. Perhaps first lesson can be 25 dollars or something really low just so I don't get taken advantage of but also the student doesn't feel like they are not getting ripped off. Is CI stand for certified instructor? Sorry if it sounds silly, I got corporate identity for googling it. I also agree with you on integrity. In the past, I had a horrible boxing trainer and he was horrible because of his attitude. His technique was alright but was a very bad person. Immoral, verbally abusive and had a tendency to blow up in public and say the nastiest thing and bring up personal stuff over small disagreement. I don't think anyone wants to have this type of character in their lives. I like to think that in the opposite way, if a trainer/teacher doesn't have the accolades but shows amazing techniques and is a great human being who looks out for their students well being and the student gets tons of value from their teaching, then that teacher should be as qualified or more qualified than a former fighter. But regarding what I like to teach, in Himokiri karate, the emphasis is on smaller targets for precision as well as being well conditioned. Of course my root will always be Kyokushin and Boxing forever.

In my town, a placed I used to train Kyokushin at has changed their name to something else. Same practice but just different name. Aside from that, Kyokushin has several offshoots such as Ashihara and Enshin Karate. Now anyone can technically come up with their own style but I also understand that the person doing so must be a combination of a charismatic and powerful Karateka in order to bring their own brand to life. In your opinion, what is the most dignified ways of coming up with a new style without disrespecting a current lineage? Also this is slightly about Himokiri Karate but in all seriousness. My style has changed over the years. After years of boxing,karate,kung fu as well as judo/sambo and other MMA based martial arts. I have decided to focus on this type of modality: 1. First, make my boxing and karate ( with throws) my main focus 2. Second, focusing with a private grappling trainers sub defense 3. Have Kung Fu as a form of exercise and to cultivate strong foundation Now my question for you guys is, should I give free lessons to have people try my style to see if there is value in learning it? Should I focus on fighting in MMA/combat karate? My problem with fighting in combat sports is that if I win, it might just mean I am a competent fighter with conditioning. Doesn't make my teaching good per say. I also run hills and have a love/hate with cardio. But this is not something I can teach.

Before I go on, I train in boxing and sambo as my base martial arts. I understand the importance of sparring and that it is mandatory to understand if moves are functional. That being said, is it ok in your book for someone to learn karate online in respect to not just learning but also earning a rank in process. I am a bit conflicted because of the following: 1. The no in me says that part of training is human interaction and sparring with different bodies. Also there is competition and seeing different people perform moves with different body types and bringing their own perspectives 2. The yes in me says that if moves are being learned correctly and demonstrated flawlessly, then a person is a martial artist and that being a good fighter goes beyond sparring. I find myself flip flopping back and forth. I feel that as long as someone is going out there to seek sparring to make sure their online training is being used in pressure cooker situation, then online certification might not be too bad. But I like to her your perspective on this.

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