Thai_Kick

HOLY SH*T... I'm sick of arguing about this topic, I really don't care what you have to say Martial_Artist I really don't, BUT do I respect the fact that you have been there and done that, but come on... You know, I have fought in the ring and on the streets, I've been there and done that, don't tell me I painted a false picture, please don't. The only people that have false pictures are the illusions that many on this board have put in their mind about street fights, knife fights and their own abilities. I have no painting, only cut's, stab wounds, welts and bruises from experience, and that is from which I speak of "EXPERIENCE" not theory, or illusions but EXPERIENCE! I have a bright future in Muay Thai and MMA, I have been fortunate enough to surround myself with great fighters and athletes that train me, some of which you may know of, I'll be making a name for myself soon in main stream MMA events, I'll be opening my own club in 2-3 years, I have a diploma in Web-design and Multi-media also certificates "Masters DWI Design" and "Micro-soft Professional", life's good and productive. No, no I haven't! I just choose not go down someone else's path or way of thinking; I always make my own path and think for myself. It's called self-expression! Maybe you should do the same Martial_Artists, instead of following some else's version or way of finding the greater soul of the martial arts, try to choose or find your own way! Anyways I have had enough of this topic! BORING!

I give 100% respect to Tito Ortiz! I have just finished watching Tito Ortiz fight Ken Shamrock, I must be honest, I thought Shamrock was going to win. Ken Shamrock showed a lot of heart and spirit, but Ortiz showed too much power and technique for Shamrock to handle. I was amazed to find out Ortiz was training Muay Thai for this fight, and his techniques of Muay Thai were incredible, at times I thought I was watching Vanderlei Silva fighting Shamrock. Ortiz showed his great wrestling ability in the fight by taking the legend Ken Shamrock to the ground and using some good old "ground and pound" on his face. On their feet, Tito used Muay Thai to the fullest, he continually punished Shamrock with painful cut elbows and knees, myself, my teacher and the rest of the fighters I train with were very impressed. In the 4th round Shamrock throw in the towel, his face was extremely swollen and badly cut; as a result Ortiz proved that he is the best and toughest fighter in the world. To be a legend you must beat a legend, and Ortiz did just that. Congratulations Tito Ortiz!

I would sprawl... Since my opponent is a skilled shootfighter I would sprawl, place pressure on his back and then let go, so we are back on our feet where I can utilize my Muay Thai. If I miss the sprawl and it goes to the ground and I fall in his guard or worse I'm mounted, then I would attempt to create some distance so I could get back on my feet and use my Muay Thai. I'm not dumb enough to grapple a skilled shootfighter. It's funny cause so many people think this way!

I agree it's not real life, BUT unlike the dojo, UFC and MT are real hand-to-hand fights. In a dojo you have a willing participant that will not react negatively after an attack or when techniques are performed. In UFC and MT your opponent is going to hurt you as bad as he can so that he can win the fight, and you are forced to defend yourself and fight back, this is a real fight.

This is not in any particular order... - All Muay Thai training - All Sambo, BJJ, Judo, Shooto training - All Kali/Escrima/Arnis training - All Wrestling training

HELLO... It's a sport! . Is it? Can you really kill someone? What would drive you to do that? Many Martial Artists talk way too much smack about killing someone or breaking necks? I would bet EVERYTHING I HAVE that NO ONE on this board would have the drive or guts to kill another human, and that includes me as well. I agree 100% with you, but what gets me upset is that many people on this board have illusions that street fights are easy, clean, and simple and they have all these theories and combo's stuck in their heads of what their going to do to defend themselves (example: Knife attacks)

Kensai, you may read my posts but you do not understand them and as a result you don't understand me. I look at martial arts in ring/street effective, proven techniques, no nonsense, modern training and thinking also I want facts not theory! I don't care for art, fancy techniques, kata's/forms, useless weapons and old training and thinking. This is why I don't care about Samurai's or what happened 2000 years ago, what does that have to do with modern times and modern martial artists? I don't think Muay Thai is the best art, but I believe it's one of the better ones for effective, no nonsense training and thinking for ring and street fights, the same can be said about Boxing, Pankration, JKD, Shootfighting... When I go to Muay Thai class I want to hit bags, spar, get punched and kicked and counter with a smile. When I'm in JKD I want to grapple and force my opponent to tap out. When I'm in Kali class I want to learn how to use a knife in a defensive and offensive manner, since a knife is the most common weapon on the streets. I'm not going to get any of this from Kung Fu, Karate, or TKD, and if I do, it won't be much since most of the time I'll be learning Kata's/forms, blocks, several stance, the use of a staff, kama, sai and other things that will not help in a real fight. Lets be HONEST in a real fight people, punch, kick, elbow, knee, headbutt, foot stomps, use soccer style kicks, use of guns, knifes and other stabbing weapons, this is what you see on the street. I am still waiting to see footage of aikido style throws or wrist locks, karate blocks, stances or weapons, TKD's fancy kicks, blocks, stances or someone using Crane style or Monkey style in a real fight. If you got a video/clip send it to me! PLEASE! Kensai... I understand you're into the art aspect of your style and you enjoy talking about it and embracing it and I respect that. I have always understood that from your posts. As for me I'm into styles that have ring/street effective, proven techniques that have modern training and thinking habits. I live in the year 2002, in a city full of guns, knifes and thugs, as a result my training needs to prepare me for that. We both have different views of the martial arts!

- Let me guess they used Carne style or Snake style to defeat them right?Oh one more thing how many Kung fu schools train for war? - Yes is does get more practical then that, how many modern day Samurai's do you know walk around with swords? - read above! - No, I believe I need one! - Oh yeah buddy, when I watch "COPS" or other live Police shows I always see Steven Segal style fights and techniques used by cops , do they use the techniques before or after they punch, kick, jump and arrest their man? - So all TKD practitioners train TKD like they do in the Korean army? - No, please say more! - read Aikido! - Great, and in only 20 years they will be able to defend themselves! Sign me up!

I agree 100%... But if you do learn self-defence it should NOT be based on theory!

UFC 1-3, Vale Tudo 1-5 had no rules (eye gouges and groin kicks were legal), and people walked out alive. It does and did bother them because traditionalist began to out lash against the sport (NHB/MMA) because their arts and students (Karate, TKD, Kung-Fu) were being beaten badly by hybrid and modern styles. The truth of the matter is if you can't defend yourself in a fighting sport with rules, then how will you defend yourself on the streets with no rules? Oh, but wait, most people on this board base their training on Theory, and since their theory works in there heads and in the dojo with willing people then it must work in a real fight I hope you enjoy your "theory" based training Good Luck!

karatekid1975... Your right on, but like Shootfighter said "go with the flow"

Well... It's just that so many Kung Fu practitioners talk about how great it is and how it "could" compete against other grappling styles, but all this is based on theory. I have seen MANY grappling tournaments, and not a single Chin Na practitioner has competed. I'm always on the Underground Forum (MMA) and their is nothing on or about Chin Na or even Chin Na practitioners who have won or even competed in any open grappling tournaments, I have also checked the internet and their is nothing about Chin Na competitors. There are no open grappling tournaments on TV, and yet we all know Sambo, BJJ, Shooto, Judo, Wrestling... all work. All I hear is smack and get no action!

Teep, teep and teep again! A good teep will send your opponent off balence and keep good range, a perfect weapon against a boxer. http://www.muaythaiuk.org.uk/Pictures/gutteep.jpg

Theory, theory and more theory, I hate theory! Thanks anyways guys!

Chin Na... I always hear about this Kung Fu art, when a topic about grappling comes along. Does anyone train in this style, have you or anyone you now entered a open grappling tournament using Chin Na and won? Can it even compete against Sambo, BJJ, Wrestling...?

Sacrifice what? Their would be nothing to sacrifice! Kyokushin is a hard style that is extremly well respected for it's full contact sparring in regular class and sport tournaments (K-1, Knockdown, Sabaki...). People know and understand that Kyokushin practitioners are rough and tough and can take a punch or kick, so to place it in the Olympics will help promote Karate and a greater amount of respect will be given towards Karateka's in general for their fighting ability/spirit. Also the Olympic Conceal would allow full contact, since they have considered Muay Thai, Kickboxing and Pankration to do a demonstration in 2004 and 2008 to see how people will react to the sport, so anything is possible.

What tension? I'm asking questions because I really don't understand why a budo art can't compete in sport? XpOiSoN FrEeX, I suggest you "chill" and keep your pu**y comments to yourself!

I have to feel it... a uh? What about Kyokushin, it's a budo art yet fights in sport (K-1, Knockdown, Sabaki...)

Why not? What makes them so different?

Budo: Japanese martial arts whose goal is to simultaneously cultivate martial techniques, character, and spirituality. Kensai, what does Budo have to do with Karate beening in the Oylmpics or labeld as a "sport"?

Well to answer this question I would have to look at Muay Thai... It's considered a sport and yet includes the importance and value of tradition, by means of the "Wai Kru/Ram Muay" a traditional dance performed by both fighters before the fight, also the wearing of traditional articles of clothing to the ring to bring luck and fighting spirt, and you can't forget about the "old school" Thai music which is played during the fight, all these examples embrace the culture and traditions of Muay Thai and Thailand. As a result the same can be said about placeing Karate in the Olympics or labeling it has a "sport" this should not disrupt the tradition or culture in anyway, unless you want it too. IMO placing Karate in the Olympics will only be a good idea if they spar full contact, similar to Kyokushin and if they choose to go the other way with point-sparring then it will ruin it. After watching TKD in the past Olympics was an embarrassment, a bunch of goofs jumping and bouncing all around with their hands at their waists, attempting to kick each other in the head was really sad (and funny) to watch. If Karate is to be in the Olympics I hope it dosen't go down the same road TKD did.

Don't forget about these great striker vs grappler fights, with the striker puting the beatdown on the grappler... - Murilo Rua (Muay Thai) vs Mario Sperry (BJJ) - Vanderlei Silva (Muay Thai) vs Kazushi Sakuraba (Shoot Fighting) - Bas Ruttan (Kyokushin/Muay Thai) vs Frank Shamrock (Shoot Fighting) - Mirko Filipovic (Kickboxing) vs Kazushi Sakuraba (Shoot Fighting) - Chuck Liddel (Kickboxing) vs Vitor Belfort (BJJ)

"In the past, an instructor of mine would tell me to do something a certain way because the master who invented it had a fifth degree black belt. So what? If he never tried it in a real fight then I'm not interested in learning it." --Bas Rutten; 1995 King of Pancrase, 1998 UFC Champion--

I agree with kicker!

Both are useless, learn how to use a knife!