Adonis

I agree with you sam its intersting to know but I agree with you also on the no-touch KO's being impossible at least impossible in a fight scenerio. I love how the guy in the video says it only works 40% off the time and doesn't work good on trainded atheletes. LOL! I don't think I want to dedicate my self to a moves and spend along time just for it to work 40% of the time. I love how he hit the lady and she says "you hit me in the head!" as well as the skinny kid at the end inviting every one down to get knocked out.

graviational marriage can be placed in any of the forms pretty much that idea has been put out starting wikth short form 1 from what I saw. which is pretty much from that concept which makes Parkers system of kenpo work.

there are tons of them. Look in the yellow pages under martial arts. good luck

http://videos.subfighter.com/highlights/other/Dimmak%20Death%20Touch%20Fraud.wmv done by fox news on toucheless knock outs and light touch knock outs. The instructor is based out in chicago. I thought it was funny clip over all for several reasons.

Kata can be fun if you like that sort of thing. If you learned good concepts training and exposed to some applications from kata as well to what diffrent things one movement. ie out ward block can be several types of things on diffrent parts of the body. then yes kata is great. It however isn't a great subsitute for partner or bag/pad training because you don't get equivilent benefits. They are all seperate training tools. So that remark holds no weight to it. some one who doesn't do forms and is a good fighter is still a martial artist. One of the defintions of ART defined in websters dictionary is "skill aquired through obeservation, study, and experience" there for those who are fighters ie.(boxers, kick boxers, mma, or other fighting styles) can be classfied as martial arts. So that holds no weight to it either. Its just the persons opinion.

Physically most people can't train full contact ALL THE TIME body can't take that much punishment for any long lenght amount of time on a consistant bases. Neither is it the best idea. You don't see boxers, kick boxers, or MMA'ers training full contact ALL THE TIME. The body can't handle that much abuse of going full contact all the time. Injury is more likely to happen preveting some one from trianing. So they work on other drills such as speed, hittting a bag, diffrent foot work training or other stuff then just pounding each other as hard as they can all the time. I do understand what your getting at. If you don't test your moves at all with some sort of resistance, such as your oppenent countering your techniques with some sort of defense, or offering some sort of offense and pushing you to make your moves work. If you don't test the moves then its not as effective as some one else who does test them. resistance training is the key. Practice to make your moves smooth and feel good to you, have your parenter resist you some, by trying to counter them by defense or counter attack. adjusting for there counter and getting that feeling of a smooth technique again. then have your partner resit you more changing the scenerio. As well as going full contact at times to deal with full out resistance. If your partner is just letting you do the moves on them and going with you with out offering hardly any reistance at all. You don't learn how to deal with some who is trying to hurt you and is going to resist you for real. There for limiting your effectiveness in your techique.

If your interestead useoforce or any one else on the forum check this site out. https://www.infantry.army.mil/combatives/ You can go there and then on the left hand side there should be a video you can watch I think its around 10 mintues or longer. but gives the first level clourse of the MACP (modern army combatives program) even though some people don't agree with teh methods the army uses. when the instructor or narrator talking puts alot of the ideas in perspective as far as combatives in general and as the mind set its developing in the soliders. HOOAH!

awesome thread. I Have done that by looking at a school and not deciding on it. I orginally just did that to a school just recently didn't look in best of shape, but more importantly the head instructor I saw was some fat guy in regular clothes outside smoking a cigar. I didn't even bother to train with him. After talking to him he pretty much sounded like a (stereotype) of a used car sales man. I might check out the school but talking to him he didn't seem to knowledgeable about the ground fighting I was looking for. I agree though with some of the posts I met some of the most awesome martial artist in run down places or garages and some goofy guys in some nice well matted, fully equiped stuido's.

IN basic I had one day of H2H combat training more like 2 or 3 hours of actual training. That was a few years ago. The US Army has re-structured its combatives trianing. check out https://www.modercombatives.org to look at what the Army currenly is doing as far as H2H combat training. I have had some training after basic as well. Its required in the new combatives program which is now army doctirine. every unit soon will be doing it weekly. The program can be found in army field manules FM 3-25.150 I believe is the manuel. reason why I gave the web site and FM I would be making several posts and filling this forum up with alot of reading material as well as my own personal opinion to much writing I want to do and I doubt people are going to go through the trouble to read all of the info. the moderncombatives.org is the best for getting the info for what you want as far as what the army is teaching now.

all this advice is really good aspecially shotochem's advice. set some goals wand write them down what you want out of your training. from what you said you like the soft relaxed style of tai chi but seems from what you wrote it doesn't meet your self defense goals. That is something you need to talk to your teacher about and ask him how to apply the moves to self defense. weather what he shows fits your idea of self defense and works for you. Use common sense! biggest thing is talk to your instructor about your concerns with tact and respect. If he is offended or gives youa answers that you don't like and fit your goals and he doesn't work with you. I highly suggest you go some where else. There is other places to train at. Its a hard decision because your not sure what else is out there and you already been training in this style for awhile but you got to do whats best for your self. Me personally I can see the instructors point of view as not going else where for several reasons I think why instructors do this. 1. as ninja nurse proclaim culturaly. 2. afraid of loosing a student and that income a student brings in. 3. doesn't feel the student should do that but stay pure to the art he choose as well as the fact if you bounce around to much styles and instructors you don't get good at what is being taught. 4. some go to other schools and don't like what the old isntructor teaches comes up with annoying questions and also practice or teaches these methods to other students of his/her instructor and says its better. this disrespects the instructor as a teacher and draws students away from him and creates problems in the school. Not always though depends. I like what one of the posters said about he lets his students go to other schools as well to learn. basically you have a right to go train where ever you please. Your instructor has the right to refuse teaching you if you do this because he doesn't like that. You can train at that school and all you want and other places and not tell him. for fear of getting being dissmissed. You can do that also if you choose. I wouldn't though cause maybe eventually he might find out and then ask you to leave, and I would resent him any way of the altamtium he gave you of not training else where or be dismissed. Honestly talk to your instructor about all this. If your not satifyed with the outcome after you talk to him. Go some where else, Not worth it IMO to stay where your not happy and concent with your training. You have goals as to why you did the martial arts and goals now as to what you want so persue those goals with a good instructor that is willing to work with you. Good luck on the out come of what ever decision you make. I hope you find the training your looking for.

Yeah I have done that several years ago with one of my instructors. lol! I ran my mouth. I should have used a better choice of words. I think I was padding up and said "lets see what you got!" well I ment it as yeah I am ready lets spar. but now I see those choice of words doesn't sound to good if you think about them. I just spouted them out. I definetly payed for it he took it to me in sparring. Not to bad though he had a good heart he just gave me a couple good shots and swept me a few times. He didn't try to KO me or any thing like that. talked to me after wards about chalanging him and I learned I should choose my words more carefully. My cocky attitude at that time didn't help me either. So re-inforced his idea that I was chalanging him. Oh well, I chock it up to lessons being learned.

my favorite part is that he says it only works 40% of the time. hmmm.......I don't really want to tain in a technique and spend years and hard work for it to only work 40% of the time. I also love how he says it doesn't work on atheletes. Doesn't say much about his own students fitness level . I thought the video clip was pretty funny.

I live up in wanysville MO, let me know if you want to get together and work out. I am in the Army and just got stationed out here would love another trianing partner. I can work around your injured shoulder. I can share my knowlege of what I know and we can know and you can help me out because I can actually train. I train in BJJ and since you told me about your injury's we can work around those so we don't mess with those area's that much so as that we keep the training safe. I know other stuff as well, like shaolin Kempo and Hakutsuru training. -Jeff

I live up in wanysville MO, let me know if you want to get together and work out. I am in the Army and just got stationed out here would love another trianing partner. I can work around your injured shoulder. I can share my knowlege of what I know and we can know and you can help me out because I can actually train. I train in BJJ and since you told me about your injury's we can work around those so we don't mess with those area's that much so as that we keep the training safe. I know other stuff as well, like shaolin Kempo and Hakutsuru training. -Jeff

Oldrookie was on the money about the kicks with the snap/twist I usually say explosive tourque. We are saying the same thing though what every helps get the concept into your mind and for you to get the body to do what the mind wants. Oldrookie has koed the correct on his post. what you need to do for speed like he said about "whip" the kick out there is right on. stay relaxed and think of just your kneed joing moving your leg there or what ever you have to do to sgay relaxed and whip the leg out there. remember to go slow and make the technique smooth. each time you add more speed, or try for power you got to work it to get smooth at i that way you can build speed up quickly.

hmmmm...... "DIMMAK" video link. I will make comments on what I think after every one else see's it. This was put on my fox news. He even does the dimmak stuff against some BJJ guys and makes it work. http://videos.subfighter.com/highlights/other/Dimmak%20Death%20Touch%20Fraud.wmv

IMO PP are overated.

Thats the idea of my post. It comes down to the training methods. Pushing and testing your abilities and techniques. IF you reversed the scenerio where ricoo won because he was trainign hard, did good sparring contact, and was good with timing and distance and all the other factors to set up and make his moves work while antwon did things half assed. The outcome has a higher percetange to come out diffrent.

Thats the idea of my post. It comes down to the training methods. Pushing and testing your abilities and techniques. IF you reversed the scenerio where ricoo won because he was trainign hard, did good sparring contact, and was good with timing and distance and all the other factors to set up and make his moves work while antwon did things half assed. The outcome has a higher percetange to come out diffrent.

I have yet to see any real master do those moves with full on resistence from there opponent. I am aware of pressure points. but people claims to be able to pull them off for real I am skeptical about.

either way to are bound to fight so which one wins in your opinion?

interesting theory but no one is void of ego. ego gets the best of people at times. could be a game like foot ball your team vs some one else where you end up in a stupid argument. could be chess game, card, game who's the best nascar driver. or any thing for that matter.

You take two people. 1st one is a guy named Ricco Ricco when he was 15 years old found a cool TMA style he likes. Ricco trains an average of 3 days a week. He does his forms/kata and techniques he learned. He does some mild sparring. His intructor talks about chi/dimak and all that wonderful stuff. He talks bout eye gouging, biting, and what ever else he has to do to when the fight. but his main focus as pretty much almost all tradional arts are on character building. Ricco has learned some cool forms, some techniques he practices on an oppenent who steps in and punches and ricco performs his techniques he is so proud of on the opponent. cool wrist locks, striking techniques, chin na, and neat parrying, blocking sets. Ricco has been training for 10 years and is now 25. He has alot of tournaments when's his forms competion and places 2nd or 1st in his point sparring matches. He feels he can defend him self, no longer competes because he learns more of the deady aspects of the art feel to dangerous to learn. His instructor has shown him great eye gouging techniques, throat chops, and aweome chin na (wrist locks and finger locks,) as well as nerve strikes and other pressure point stuff. He has learned cool neck break and some ki/chi practice. Ricco is proud of accomplishing on getting his black belt and feels confident that he learned some self defense moves to protect him self. feels he learned quite a bit about him self. found many friends and has enjoys the camdrie of his school. Enjoys the other aspects of martial arts, the theory and applicaon of his forms, the respect and courtsey, and teaching others martial arts making him feel good. Plus enjoys the accomplishment, hard work, and discipline of obtaining his black belt and continuing on his martial art journey. 2nd person. Now on the other side of town we have Antwon, who is the same age as ricco but stuided only for three years and started when he is 22. so ricco and and antwon are the same age. Just that antwon has stuied for the past 3 years compared to ricco's 10. Antwon studies MMA styles, trains 5 times a week, does mauythai, boxing, wrestling, and bjj. He spars with hard contact, has learned good balance from wrestling, foot mobility from boxing and head and body movement. Has had a lot of punches thrown at him with full speed and force and learned to slip them or block them. He has taken quite a few shots also. He has decent take downs, postioning and submission skills. He works hard and trains 5 days a week. well antwon and ricco both work together at the same same IT department both of them on break start talking and it comes talking about martial arts. ricco is appauled by the events saying " it not fighting, its sport. My art is to deadly for that. besides the arts for self defense not for some spectator enjoyment. and that those events have rules and my style can't do its techniques because of it. real fight it would be diffrent ) Antwon calls ricco on it and makes fun of ricco in front of the co workers by saying that "your style is unproven nonsense, and only thing you believe is that some ancient master you heard about in a history book was supposedly an awesome fighter and that your instructor said the knowlege was passed down from teacher to teacher then to him and that there style is deadly and not worth taking part to hurt some one or kill them in a spectar sport." antwon also says "your training methods are inferior and at best gets you to be mediocre at defending your self. that the emphasis of the traditional arts is on character buidling not fighting abiality. that your confidence in your self to defed your self is false confidence." this bothers ricco so to defend his honor and his style the two people. antwon and ricco, agree to fight. so based on what you heard who wins?

board breaking is okay but you can take the same concept of it. Main concept is focusing behind or through the target not stop at it but to pentetrate the target so it will break. same concepts can be practiced on bag or focus mits. Idea is penetration. there are other concepts you can gain out of board breaking but main idea is penetration and focus of the mind. that concept applys to self defense becuase say for example you do a jap and a straight right. or Karate reverse punch or what ever you call your punch. to penetrate through not stop at your attened target and not causing as much damage as you would if you penetrated more.

I sort of know what karatechick is saying. kind of like when you get hit turns that swith on in your head to dedicate your moves, to be more asertive. Kind of like doing a full contact bout. You get have that nervousness about doing it and you get in there and get hit. adrinline is already pumping but for some how its like a switch goes off and your into the fight. some people do it before getting hit though. which is what I prefer. same as you get attacked into a fight and you feel like your in a dream and your not quite sure what happend after wards your still in control just that you react so fast that your councious brain doesn't have time to analyize the situation. as far as philosophy of art most instructors teach to walk away. It really isn't about the art when it comes to that particular philisophy its more to the instructor and his set of values he pushes on to his students. some teach to never fight unless attacked. some teach that you walk away but to many times from teh same person your just being bullied and to stand up for your self. Other say don't go look for it but if some one wants to bully you. Make them pay. it all depends on the intructor and his personal philisophy he got from his experiences, values, and his perosonal belief system. also how he was training by his instructor and he adopts similiuar values. then I hear those that talk about it because it sounds good and seems the right thing to do. Buit would be the first to cuss some one out that took there parking spot since he was driving through a parking lot for 15 minutes looking for one and a car polls out and anotehr quickly drives up and takes it from him. He would be the first to cuss the person out end up in an altercation and beat down the guy. depends on the instructor and there values.