Infrazael

Please don't kid around. I absolutely despise the argument that "kung is too d34dly to spar with." This is absolute nonsense and complete bullcrap. Your kung fu is meant for fighting. Not everything has to be 100%. I practice Choy Lay Fut kung fu, and I can say it is similar enough to Hung Gar for me to KNOW that both arts can be applied in sparring fully. And btw, who says you're going bareknuckle? Use some gloves, head gear, groin guard, etc. Protect yourself. Otherwise, if you DON'T SPAR, YOU WILL FAIL AT BEING ABLE TO APPLY YOUR KUNG FU. Period. There are the forms and dancers in kung fu, and there are the fighters. They are the ones who fight with what they know.

I've seen Kali done, and I absolutely love how they play their weapons. Actually, Choy Lay Fut is extremely similar to Kali in certain aspects. . . . . especially the way we use our arms.

Kick -- in general or personal flair??? General -- waist and below, with all kicks. Nothing above the waist. However, the exception are crescent kicks and jumping crescents which are aimed to the head, and which are the kicks I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE. My personal flair -- I really like the Thai style kicks. I really only use 3 kicks, low, shin roundhouses, low sidekicks to the kneecaps, shins and below, and the front push kick, again the Thai versions. I don't even kick to the waist, even with my roundhouses. Weapons -- LOTS AND LOTS OF WEAPONS. However, I focus on the sparring, ringfighting and brutal self-defense aspect. I even asked Sifu to teach me Sup Ji Kao Da Kuen (a really long core CLF form) before Staff, which you're supposed to learn first. Weapons are these, and more: Staff Dragon Staff Spear Gwan Dao Kan Dao Jian Hook Sword Southern Broadsword(s) Whip Chains Three-Sectioned-Staff Funny weapon with a bladed circle on top Sai (I believe since we have a pair. . . . nobody knows how to use it, except mabye Sifu) Trident Farmer's Hoe (yes, the farmer's hoe) Horse Bench (yes, it is a horse bench) War Fans And more. . . . . . . . . And as a reminder, there is usually 2-3 different forms for each weapon, so you're looking at an average of +/- 40 weapon forms??? Something like that, IF you are into the weapons that is. Personally, CLF is MUCH deadlier with its fists. Also, Filipino Martial Arts fits in even nicer than OUR OWN WEAPONS, if you ask me!!! Peace

Northern Shaolin. . . . . you know, Northern Shaolin was one of the 3/4 styles that is part of CLF. CLF = MMA of kung fu, pretty much. However, we focus on short and long bridge hand, and in Hung-Sing CLF we DEFINITELY focus more on the hands than the Northern kicks. However, on thing to note is that even if we don't kick we still have alot of Northern footwork. We are a fast, deadly and extremely mobile style. We do not style in one stance EVER -- unlike Hung Kuen, which sometimes do. Yes, in my branch we do about 10% kicks. . . . . . . when it comes down to MY personal flair, I virtually never kick. I much prefer elbows and knees, which is why I am extremely keen on going to a Muay Thai class. Peace

Lol I am not that great. Modesty is a good virtue -- then your opponents don't know what you can do. I don't study Hung Gar. However, I have seen quite a bit of it and have researched tremendously into the style. As for your question regarding Iron Palm, I'm not sure. My Si Sook Gung (my Sifu's Sisook) said my Sifu teaches it at advanced levels, but don't be too rash to learn everything. Kung Fu takes time . However, my Sifu never mentioned it before, nor do any of my Sihings train actively in Iron Palm. However, I am sure my Sifu knows iron palm training and probably teaches it privately at much more advanced levels. Iron palm is a chi gung exercise, in CLF we do pure external first and then get into internal later, mabye even later than Hung Kuen. Peace

I've put the last post in as simple terms as I can get. CMA has very different terminology as can be extremely hard to understand, especially by someone from a Karate background. Choy Lay Fut and Choy Lee Fut are the same. Different spelling. Same with Tsai Li Fo, Choy Li Fut, etc.

CLF and HG are very similar indeed. It is a common saying that Hung Gar is the head of a dragon, while CLF is the tale. I believe Chan Heung's uncle, one of his Sifus, was the one who taught him Hung Gar. Thus, why we're so alike!!! However, differences are notable as well. Hung Gar utilizes iron bridges, iron stances, and iron, hard strikes. They do not utilize northern footwork. CLF and HG shares virtually the same 5 animals and 5 elements (we just never talk about it), but their power generation is virtually opposite. Hung Gar relies on "gum jing" which is "metal energy." They use "gong yiu" or iron hard waist and power to destroy their opponents. They also emphasize on bridging. Hung Gar does have a soft side, but that is concealed within their hardness. The waist is usually locked so that the whole body will follow behind the blow by way of connection with the stancework. CLF on the other hand has a more flexible waist in order to develop the proper whipping power for strikes. I have heard that Hung Sing CLF's use of the waist is more in line with Hung Kuen's, so their expression is a little more stiff when compared to that of either Chan family CLF or Buk Sing CLF. However, I will need to see that first hand, ESPECIALLY since our branch of Hung Sing is supposedly to be more similar to the Chan Family CLF. Peace.

Not really. It hurts the muscles (quads, calfs, etc) and the ligaments because that's where the pressure buildup is (I guess knee would be included. . . . but I'm not sure). Your knee doesn't get into masses of pain. Muay Thai hurts your knees more. . . . well. . . . because you actually learn how to use them correctly!!! I wouldn't worry about kung fu and knees. The stance transitions actually puts more pressure on my knees than merely holding a stance

I thought the Thai's stole Muay Thai from the Bando/Thaing of Burma???

Don't try it. It doesn't work. You will miss all the small things, and small things add up quickly, completely screwing up your Muay Thai. Peace

Good questions. Remember, I will try to speak for CLF as a whole, but that is sometimes very hard. Every Sifu and student will have his own flair, and different lineages of CLF can look completely distinct. First, onto forms. If you ask me, 3-4 forms (core ones) is good enough for you to become a pretty damn hardcore fighter. Virtually every application in CLF forms are combinations of some sort, meant for crushing your opponents. Buk Sing (1 of 3 branches) has 3+- forms, a couple of dummy forms, and some weapons. Hung-Sing and Chan have alot more, but really, nobody practices that much. I personally only focus on 3-4. Oh yeah, 3-4 core forms, plus 1-2 dummy forms to make you hardcore as hell. Unlike Wing Chun, we beat the living hell out of the dummy (and ourselves) using maximum force, as opposed to sensivity training. The CLF dummies also look quite different from the WC ones. As for sensivity training. . . . not really. CLF doesn't realy on that much sensitivity. What we do rely on though is lots of depth perception, distancing, and positioning. Bridges can be established, but be warned that a CLF player can smash you without bridging at all, or use a combination or bridge and non-bridge. Distancing is extremely important due to the longfist attacks we have, and knowing which part of the arm deals the most damage, to which type of attack for which distance, pisition, and time (we have 5+ swing attacks using the entire area from the knuckles to the entirety of the forearms. CLF attacks, even bridges, do not require the sensitivity of Mantis or WC. Instead, all of CLF attacks are meant to break through a gate by raw force, instead of going around or trapping it. Attacks are meant to be 100% power oriented, and usually 1 blow is enough to take out an opponent. Sparring is extremely important to Choy Lay Fut. Beginners usually start sparring about 1 to 2 months into the system, after learning about 2-3 forms (we have very short basic forms, while other schools may start out people doing trad. long, complex forms, which will generally take the same amount of time as 3-4 basic forms). Other schools, so I've heard, have made student wait 1-2 years or reach a certain "sash" level before sparring, something that I am ADAMANTLY AGAINST. I feel that sparring should be done at a level equivalent to Muay Thai, Bando, Kyokushin, which fortunately is true for my Kwoon. I would pit our top tuys against a Thai boxer anyday. Sparring is always full-contact (unless agreed otherwise by the sissies). I'm not sure what you mean by "traditional" and "competition." Choy Lay Fut has lethal techniques, but those can be used in the ring as well. Attacks such as the Sao Choy (overhead swinging punch), Gwa Choy (overhead backfist), Chop Choy (stabbing punch) can all be done with gloves, and will still be extremely painful in a ringfight. The only things that can't be done are eye gouges, biting (which I prefer), groin shots, and leopard fists and other animal hand shapes (except for the pantherfist and elephant movements, which I love, I don't like any other animal style we have). CLF always have full-contact tournaments and meets. We have lots of ringfights, but we know how to fight brutal, relentless, and cruelly as well. Just because we can't punch someone in the throat with a pantherfist in a ring, doesn't mean we dont' know how, or don't train how. Sparring techniques are everything we know, at a slightly less lethal level. Sao Choys and Gwa Choys are used at 100%, since they are mostly only going to KO you for a while. However, we usually don't pantherfist someone in the throat. Well, it's quite in its own category (CLF). First of all, you have to know that CLF is a blending of both Northern and Southern styles. Chan Heung, who first made "CLF" learned from his uncle and master I believe (don't quite remember Chan's story), learned 2-3 styles and integrated them. Later on, Chan Heung taught his skills to Hung-Sing Jeong (founder of Hung-Sing CLF), who eventually had to flee persecution. Hung-Sing ended up training with the "Green Grass Monk," and eventually he went back to see Chan Heung. Chan Heung was very pleased by Hung-Sing's new skills, and they exchanged information and sort of combined styles again (with GGM's stuff, taught to Hung-Sing). This was the "true" Choy Lay Fut as I see it. However, the Chan Family and Hung-Sing will still have differences among them, and that is probably due to both respective founder's personal flairs, and their students' preferences. Wing Chun -- Choy Lay Fut and Wing Chun are traditional enemies, whose enmity arose during the kung fu days in Hong Kong and the general Gwon Dong area. Anyways, the reason they despised each other so much was because of the antithesis in terms of fighting, applications, and theory. While Wing Chun is short, linear, snappy and triangular, Choy Lay Fut is wide, arcing, circular, and power-oriented. This difference led each style to think the other was ineffective (which is of course, a lie and misconception). I can describe the theoritical differences later if you want me to, but that's basically a summary.

Ryuk, nice to see you here too.

Suitcase-Nuke Fu. There you have it. And if you don't have one. . . . anything from Desert Eagle-Fu to 12-Gauge Shotgun-Fu to .357 Magnum-Fu will do.

If there are any CLF practitioners, it would be great to have a discussion thread about our style. Or if anyone has questions about CLF I will be happy to answer as best as I can.

Duel of the 7 Tigers -- excellent movie, awesome karate and kung fu action. Plus, my Grandmaster is one of the main characters. Choy Lay Fut -- need I say more? I do CLF, thus this would be one of my favorite movies.

I honestly wouldn't spar with someone who is MUCH more experience than you are, let alone a disrespectful one. I would work, and perfect the Thai roundhouses, as well as continuously condition your shins.

Why not ask your Sifu???

Choy Lay Fut, the kung fu I know, is a mixture of 3 styles, 2 Southern and 1 Northern (I think), and it was made by 2 people. Chan Heung and Hung-Sing Jeung were co-founders. So yes, but besure to master your own style first. With 10 years of experience, I think you're ready.

Knees, Elbows, Forearm and Shins. At least thats how I try to play the game. If not, backfists and twisting hammerfists work wonders too, and won't hurt your knuckles that much.

How is the forearm similar to the calf. . . . one is muscle, the other is pure bone. . . . . . . Sorry, I'm simply confused here.

Good point. Old school Shaolin guys used to train about 12 hours a day. If we do that nowadays, of course we'll be good.

No offense, but you obviously haven't been hit by a roundhouse forearm strike before. Especially if they have conditioned forearms (like we do), then pain is not something they'll worry about. Not only the speed of the arcing attack, but the entire body weight is typically put into it as well.

I wouldn't say it's better. It's like the shins vs. knees. Elbows are great at close range, but at long range a nice roundhouse forearm smash will maim someone just as easily.

Don't worry bro. At the end of the, Gung Fu is about who is the best fighter, not who's the best dancer.

The only part of the body Thai boxers don't strike with, as far as I know are the forearms. But everything else on them is hard as a rock.