pers

I used to be with KUGB ,graded by Ohta sensei and have the legendary Enoeda sensei's stamp in my book for my early kyu grades !

shotokan and kyukoshin have a different concept in fighting and self defence ,perhaps you should go on you tube and watch the best of the two styles closely and see if you can notice the difference and see which one apeals to you more . In my experience and how we trained shotokan caters well for kumite , I can't speak for kyukoshin but in shotokan the way we trained free kumite started more seriousely at brown belt level and we got a lot of beating by dan grades when we were trying to spar with them . shotokan is about being able to hit and avoid getting hit with body evasion and the ultimate aim is about one hit one kill ,from 3rd kyu to 8th dan this is what we try to improve on in our quest . first from 9th kyu to 3rd kyu we learn and bulid strong techniques and as we are doing this we practice them in a basic form against a partner in 5 step 3 step and 1 step format and perhaps some free sparring at 5th and 4th kyu level .it was their job to block ,the only controlled part was the free shot counter attack by the defender ,otherwise you do your best to hit them . with this aproach both people benefit . when we did these basic kumites we were taught to do our best to hit our opponent with our technique Once reaching 3rd kyu brown belt is where more serious training starts ,the harder and better you have trained earlier on in your basics it will serve you better here . but there are no short cuts ,just like there no real get rich quick on the internet . kyukoshin have a different aproach ,the body conditioning requierd for their type of kumite is very demanding as in their kumite you have to be able to stand up toe to toe and exchanges blows with your opponent until one drops , quite different from shotokan concept teaches you to avoid getting hit and finish the fight with one blow . This is not to say one is better than the other ,it just that one methos suit some people better .kyukoshin ,Shitoryu ,wadoryu ,Gojuryu ,shotokan and the chinese systmes are all very good .

Sochin is one of my favourites ,I am not sure what rank you were before you stopped but from what you said I guess you were shodan ...anyway be patient as Sochin is an advance kata and there are many points to consider and it requires good body conditioning to perform it well ,one important point is the sochin dachi itself ,you have to be patient and practice it a lot . Important is you are back in training and that is great ,I recently have done the same thing and I am not anywhere near the level I was 10 years ago but I am back and slowely but surely work towards level of comptenecy I had before ,just take each day as it comes and enjoy the training ! that feeling of relaxation and tranquil after a good night of training .

I don't think at 6th kyu level you should worry too much about sparring , rather you should concentrate on buliding strong fundementals ,just basics and more basics including basic kumite ....it's all there for a porpuse . It may look boring and you feel like giving up but if you stick with it ,it will serve you well later on down the line and then you can bulid on that your own preferances and I promise you can walk into any club from any style and not embarrass yourself . But if you are in too much of a hurry to sparr why don't you join a kickboxing club ,they have a diferrent aproach and almost straight away you will be sparring . no katas involved and it is more a sport than martial arts that you look to take on for a life time ... Most important thing is the competency of the instructor and the club and not the style . There are many good and many bad shotokan clubs ...just like any other style of martial arts , if you find a genuine and competent instructor in whatever ryu stick with him like glue !

Each kata has a diferrent concept and meaning and focuses on particular stuff . we must learn the kata first from a bonofied instructer ,understand its meaning and how it is done , some slow moves with tention and some fast with speed and power . kata like Nijushiho is a flowing and fluid kata , and there is no pause between each moves ,unlike say sochin or Empi . I would do it slow with emphasis on correct form when I am warming up or when I just want to relax and practice correct form and evaluate the applications of the particular kata . but I would like to do it fast and with power and like I am involved in a fight with multiple opponents and I put more effort in effectiveness of my technique rather than correct and textbook technique .

True, a strong governing body with a continuity of style gives them a more consistent base for rules and dress throughout the world. Judo has the same advantage. I remember a purple belt in our club who got kicked out of our club by our sensei for being arogant and stupid but a year later he was teaching in a neigbouring town as a second dan ! I am sure other people have similar stories to tell about micky mouse karate instucters and cowboys who gave karate a bad reputation , for every bonofied instructer and club there are 10s of cowboys ruining the dignity of the art .

Isn't this what karate has been suffering from ? Too many chiefs and not enough Indians ? taekwondo which is an off shoot of karate has been in olympics for years ... why do you think that is ? isn't it becuase of their unity and staying together ?

Jodan Mawashigeri is a technique you can do without if you are over 30 and if you are not naturaly very flexible . It is never to late to learn this technique and execute it well at mid or lower section level , first we must learn how to execute it and then how to deliver it . The second part is much harder than the first . Many times I have seen people who are naturaly very supple and could do jodan mawashigeris in thin air so well but some really struglle to do it in kumite against an unwilling partner . I agree with other posters jodan mawashi is a very vunarable position to be in unless you are very comfortable with it and know when to deliver it , timing is very important and the position of your opponent is also very important , if he is on a forwrad mode it would be kind of suicidle to do a jodan mawashi geri .... any thoughts on this ?

When I was young I thought jodan mawashigeri was the ultimate technique and to be honest it was probabley one of the main reasons I took up karate . I was never that comfortable with it ,although I manged to score with it a few times but it was never my strong technique ,as years went by I realized that there is a lot more to karate than jodan mawashi . these days my mawashigeris are not higher than chest hight but the beauty of karate is that it caters for every body type and any age group ,you just have to learn to adopt the best technique for your own body type .

I think pad work is a good idea but not really for the karate class .avarage karate class is about 90 minutes and most of it should be devoted to actual karate practice .Pad work and other body conditioning should be done outside of the class in your own time . I am by all means for a brief introduction of pad work by sensei to teach students how it should be done , perhaps after green belt level , then its up to you to do the padwork with a partner in your spare time .

That is a great point you mentioned , that is the concept of my karate practice and a life long strive to make it better and better ...the longest amount of relaxation and shortest amount of kime at the right time . I also agree with Chris on all the points he raised but emphasise with no 1 , having a good sensei ... if you have that then you have a chance of all other 9 points . In my karate practice I have been taught to deliver every technique as if my life depended on it and practice and execute kata as if I am in a fight ,when we do the kata slow we try and be as correct as possible but when I did it fast I do it as if I am fighting opponents all around me within the frame of the kata .

It is not the Gi that matters ,it is the person in it .......

They may look similar but they way the are performed are quite different . in shotokan kata techniques are performed based on fundementals of shotokan and that is why I like to do hian shodan after 27 years of training ... it strengthens my technique , gives me the workout for my basic techniques in the dicipline I like which is shotokan .

All shotokan katas are great but the ones sticking out for me is Heian shodan , Hian Godan ,Hangetsu ,Kankudai ,Kanku sho ,sochin ,Nijushiho ,Unsu ,tekki shodan, Empi

I'm happy that you feel so strongly about your training....however, "never" and "anything" are 2 very absolute words. After 40 years of time in, I would now never make such a statement. I agree that Karate can be a way of life, however, Karate is not life. FP, My apologies if I appeared harsh. When I was single and younger, martial arts training was high on my list of priorities. As I got older, married and had kids, and my responsibilities increased, my time on the floor decreased. My love of the arts did not lessen at all. In fact, the lessons that I learned on the dojo floor helped me be a better husband, father and person. If you train correctly, have the right instructors and keep things in perspective, your training will become part of almost everything you do. You and It will be inseparable. Now I understand that training does not occur solely on the dojo floor. Now I understand that proper martial arts training teaches much more than how to fight. It takes more than four walls and a roof to make a dojo, and that it takes more than a tight fist to correctly practice the arts. Make the world your Dojo! Best, Chris Well said , I feel as though we have been training in the same dojo for years !

I was gonna say that but well said ! a world champion sumo wrestler with the heavyeight boxing champ and a 8th dan karate master all together cant beat a single gorilla ...absolutely no chance !

Brown belt stage is a peculiar period in karate journey , it is like the period that you are shedding skin , techniques and fundementals of karate have been aquired by then to a reasonable level and brown belt is the time that you start to polish your technique and movements ,making them smoother and faster and more refined ,shortening the time in execution and etc ...and learning control ! must say brown belts were never the popular sparring partners , 1st kyu should be a lot smoother than a fresh 3rd kyu who is still in the beginning stages of learning to relax and to shorten their kime . having said that I have seen some really good brown belts ,most of them though were talented individuals , I dont think there is any human being that can handle a gorilla in a bare hand fight .

Tommy , if it is a good club then it is worth it . thirty quid for 12 lessons is also a good deal , good luck with your training and enjoy it ,it is a life long pursuit but it is worth all the effort .

I totaly agree with you on the role of kata but not quite so sure about your take on kumite . To me kata is like a short movie and I am the actor playing it , kata is a fight scene beween me and imaginary opponents , how good I can play the part to convince myself and those watching is relative to my competancy both in body and mind . Regarding your comment on bouncing around on the ball of the feet ,it depends on how one has been shown the most efficient way to be in and out of the reach of the opponent ,avoid and deliver tehnique(s) . I think kumite has great value in learning and practicing distancing ,timing ,improving spirit against an opponent ,stationary or not stationary depending on the type of kumite being practiced . Each to its own have their great values , you can tkae the Oi zuki in kihon kata to your kumite with the same principals ...even in jiyu kumite ,you are moving on the ball of your feet ,going forwards and backwards or to the side ,monitoring your opponent's movements and waiting for the right time and opening to deliver your punch , and then when you find that opening you go in exatcly like the Oi zuki in kihon or heian shodan . My personal warm up before the class is doing katas in a slow mode ,just to get my body going , this way I get my mind going too , if I am doing hian shodan which I normaly do among other katas I concentrate on my movement ,like the initiaition part of my Oi zuki ,despite doing it slow I try to practice the dynamitism of my technique ,try to act like I am compressed spring ready to bounce out . I also usualy start my warm up with Hangetsu for the breathing and the kime practice ,then I do bits and pieces of other katas .... I spend the 15-20 minutes before the start of class doing this ... If I had to pick one to keep for the rest of my life between kihon ,kata and kumite then it would be kata .

Spot on !

Yes ,so true ...regarding the Asian men , I dont speak japanese but I know that when they speak it all starts from their hara ,their centre of gravity , hara is not just in karate but in every aspect of their culture ,its ib their fencing ,tea ceremony anything they do including their conversation . simple test is to do the numbers in japanese ! ich , ni , sun ...! do it from the abdoman and that is how they talk . as you said a good kia is from the hara and as short as possible ,one short release of enery on impact with the opponent and a quick and short reload of air ready for the next . nothing like those displayed in Hollywood movies.

if you contract before the start of your technique then all it does is slowing your technique , kia should be short at the end of the techniqe into the opponent for maximum effect.

Karate without kata is like learning the alphabet without being able to read and write . each in its own level , whether you do Heian shodan as a beginner or Unsu as a 3rd dan , same principals apply .

Tai sabaki is an important part of training in shotokan ,if you did not see that demonstrated by the shotokan practitioners that you met then you must question their school and the instruction they have recieved . As I said in my original post in this thread not every club that claim to do shotokan is up to it ,and that goes for every dicipline . I myslef have seen many shotokan practitioners of poor quality who are still stuck to very basic beginners type of standard despite claiming to have trained for 15-20 yars of training ,that is becuase they kept doing the same stuff for so long , I have seen many 3rd or 4th dans who are at best at brown belt level . Long and rigid stances and very limited mind set and aproach to karate . We cant blame the style for that but the particular school and the instructer. with so many schools and instructers who have very limited knowledge the result is a watered down style .