pers

Hi , I belong to Shotokan ,trained in UK for nearly 28 years , the main chief instructor for Europe and UK was sensei Enoeda 8th dan JKA ,he received his 8th dan in 1977 from chief instructor and president of JKA shihan Nakayama ,Nakayama died in 1987 . and Sensei Enoeda said exactly the same thing you said . He did not accept any more gradings until he was alive ,sensei Enoeda sadly passed away in 2003 and only after his death he was awarded 9th dan by KUGB .

The benefit of martial arts can be used in any activity or profession . For example I have played soccer since 8 years old and played mostly in goal , after starting karate I stopped playing football for few years , I returned to playing football few after and to my amazement my football skill have not diminished but actualy improved dramatically . to an extent that I think I could have played at a high level had I been a few years younger , the agility ,body coordination and reflexes that karate gave me made me a much much better goalkeeper which also gave me more self confidence .

Well said , as someone who took 8 years to test for shodan I couldn't agree more with you .

Is it sensei Andy Sherry ? No it isn't! He used to be KUGB and knows Andy Sherry very well, but left way back! Andy Sherry was made 9th Dan recently I believe! Interesting ...care to tell us his name ? he must have been a senior guy in KUGB ,but most of the ones I know like terry O'neil and Bob Poynton are still with the KUGB .

nah. I'm talking about the bunkai it's trying to replace. IMO, it really is more than adequate. It's the movement skills preserved in the kata that really matters. Application is given to get the feeling of the movement across. A lot of the modern bunkai seems to be more interested in describing scenarios that justify the kata's existence. That, to me, misses the point. spot on ,kihon kata is primarily to teach students how to move and apply techniques such as block and punch . lot of people overlook that fact and just think it is only gedan barai and oi zuki and think not much of it . If one can master these movements and techniques that go with it then they can apply it in one step ,three step , five step kumite and then later in free flow kumite . but it seems lot of people are in a hurry to jump in the deep end ,get that black belt round their waist and those dan grade certificates up their wall , you face them in kumite and they struggle to give you a purposeful punch to block and then when some one attack them with a powerful oi zuki chudan they wonder why they can not block it .

Is it sensei Andy Sherry ?

I was referring to the way some execute their techniques ,too tense in their movements ,slowing a technique while giving a false sense of a strong technique causes them to be out of breath and huff and puff . you see that in most lower grades and brown belt level where they haven't fully grasped the understanding of tensing the muscles only at the right time ,prolonged tension causes fatigue and slower execution of technique . you expect someone at third or 4th dan to have fully grasped that and be faster than a shodan and nidan grade .

???? you must be reffering to that hammer fist strike ,you need to be as strong as a bull to throw someone with that ! we were taught it is a release of a grab and a strike to the head .

I would say what does it matter what grade you start ? you are now 20 years older and wiser with some experience of karate which should serve you well in your training , no matter what you need to go back to basics and condition your body , go back to hian shodan and do it regulary for few months and sharpen up your basics ,after you do that and feel confident you will sail through your old grade in no time. But meanwhile enjoy your training no matter what colour belt you are ... I never forget the first day I walked into the dojo with two of my mates , I already had about a year of training and was a green belt ,my other two mates one was a brown belt from another club and the other one was a purple and white . we went into the dojo and sensei said you can train as guest tonight and at the end I will tell you if you can train or not ! so we gladly obliged and did the best we could to impress him. At the end we went up to him and bowed and he said : ok you can start training here but all of you start from white belt ! all three of us didn't even hesitate a second to say yes and that was it ,all three of us went on to become dan grades by sensei himself in years to come , the journey was hard but very rewarding and enjoyable !

It took me 8 years to reach shodan and 3 years for nidan in 1995 and since then I did no take any more gradings . I am happy with my grade despite the fact that people who were my juniors are now higher rank than me and some of them carry a big ego with their grade but I do feel I am still above them in quality since I concentrated more on improving my technique and concept of karate rather than rushing for the next grade . It is funny that during line training I am faster than the so called 3rd and 4th dans without rushing the techniques and not being out of breath at the end but I can hear them all huffing and puffing ! despite the fact that they are all physically fitter than me . That tells me I am doing something right and they are still stuck in brown belt level of karate and in basic kumite I can catch all of them with my kick and punch but almost all of the time none of them can catch me with their technique !

That is what we have told too ...it is a great kata , one of my favourites.

Who says the throws "belong" to them? If you explore the advanced Kata then they are full of throws, not many clubs seem to teach them though as we are not all blessed with mats and it increases the chances of injury if you only do them now and again. you can even find them in hian katas ... last move of hian sandan for example ...it is all in there if you have a good teacher to teach and show them to you.

Bunkai was and is an important part of our kata practice and whole structure of class was around the particular kata we happen to be praticing ,section by section we went thorough a kata in maybe 6 to 8 weeks . start of our class would doing the techniques relative to that kata and particular part of that kata ,after that we move into working those bunkais with a partner after a indepth demonstration and explanation by the instructer . If you didn't experience seeing bunkai practiced in that particular shotokan dojo then question the authencity of that dojo and not shotokan

I think at your level you should just concentrate on performing those kicks in their basic and original form and try to do them correctly , it is very important for you to develop correct posture and perform these kicks in the correct form so to avoid damaging your joints ,bad habits once set in are hard to get rid of and might do damage to your body . Once you get competent in diferrent stances you would know what stance works best for what kick , for example there are situations that you could perform front leg mawashigeri in back stance or a front leg kekomi depending on the distance and angle you have with your opponent . As others said stances are transitional , for example you avoid an attack in a 45 degree angle and adopt a back stance for moment before either countering or moving away again in another move to avoid a following attack by your opponent.

Good luck to you sir and well done , you could be a good role model ,your students must be proud of you and your determination.

We need a "like" button. This. My instructor is in his mid sixties. Even before he was diagnosed with cancer a year and a half ago and went through treatments that left him barely able to talk and only able to demonstrate very easy moves with very little balance, he was overweight. But he's still an awesome teacher because he understands the mechanics of the techniques and has the mechanical and physiological knowledge to teach effective karate. Sad fact is the majority of people are out of shape (I won't say overweight because weight and fitness don't always correlate as nicely as they'd like us to believe). If someone can teach you to have effective karate for your body type, that's going to be a lot more useful to you than some fitness nut trying to get 40-year-old Joe Schmoe to do a flying double back kick. I salute and bow to your sensei and wish him well . I agree with what you are saying too , knowing the art and being able to teach it is the most important factor .

Kuma ,the video you posted was great ,and I also read the description that was added saying this has been going since 2007 . I was very pleased to see that , I have no problem with kyukoshin or any other school of martial arts . I actually think that kyukoshin karatekas are extremely tough and can strke well ,but if this kind of kumite has taken on in kyukoshin then good luck to all of them . perhaps the way you saw the hand position of those JKA fighters is the way they were taught at early in dan grades where they say there is no kamae or guard ,from the outside they look like two street fighters , hands slightly open and body relaxed and coiled like a spring , evaluating and trying to intimidate and manipulate the opponent . I personally think that is the best guard to have ,showing nothing of your intentions and having all your weapons at the ready and feet in best position to take you in any direction need be .Those JKA guys are extremmely fast with their feet and hands and they can move ,they are not superman ,they just learned how to move fast and hit hard and avoid being hit ...all relative ofcourse ,depending who meets who !

Actually I take criticism pretty well. I'm just merely pointing out your thinking is flawed. I have stated many times that my opinion of the Kyokushin style of kumite being superior to most other karate styles as such, yet in another thread you immediately jumped in and took great offense to what I said as if it was a personal slight. It wasn't. In my opinion playing tag in a karate dogi creates a very unrealistic expectation of what a real fighting encounter is like. That's all. What you "know" is highly incorrect though, hence why I would encourage you to explore that route again. That's not the goal of Kyokushin either, though. Especially in a tournament where you will have to fight several opponents, you want to beat your opponent as quickly as possible so you are fresh and uninjured for your next bout. They want that one hit stopping power just as much as every other karateka. The problem is we learn that realistically stopping a tough opponent with one hit is quite a difficult task, and is a dangerous assumption to believe that you can always do so. If you don't spar with full contact and without stopping until the other person drops, you won't experience that. You seem to be making an assumption about something that was not said. All I said was "I have trained with several Shotokan folk in my day and though there sanbon and ippon kumite was solid the minute we went to continuous fighting they had a lot of difficulty reacting and coping." Does that address Shotokan as a whole? No. You seem to be accusing me of bashing Shotokan, but that's really not the case and you haven't proven it to be the case. Perhaps you might want to review what has been said, it might cause you to stop making such hasty accusations. when you bring up the example of your contact with shotokan people and how bad they were at free kumite then you are trying to point about shotokan as a whole ,not about few unknown individuals who happen to be from shotokan . remember we are talking about the styles in general ,not individuals ... How do you mean that's not the goal of kyukoshin ? if you fight with your guards down because of the safety of knowing you wont get punched in the face, but you want to end the fight as quickly as possible , knowing well that the best way to knock someone out is to punch them on the chin . I refer you to the first video of JKA I posted ,watch those knockouts with the face punch , is that more realistic and like the real thing or punching someone in the chest and body until they hopefully give up or drop ? That is what we discussing ,not how good I am in karate or you are or the shotokan individuals you met and they couldn't take your kind of kumite . shotokan karate is a martial art ,competition is only a small prt of it ,but it is not a gladiator sport ,you can do that if you like that sort of thing and you are tough and strong and young . shotokan is about giving skills and ability regradless of your age and physical condition and your size and weight , if you can find a good school and teacher and are willing to put in the hard work .

The problem is you are trying to compare two completely different fighting formats. If your entire strategy revolves around landing one clean hit to win, it's quite different from one where you have to hurt your opponent badly enough that he cannot continue. Instead of comparing two boxers, you are essentially comparing fencing and boxing. In systems which revolve around full contact fighting you will get a variety of fighting styles within that same system. You have your punchers and your kickers, your dancers and your tanks, your outside fighters and inside fighters, your flashy guys and simple but effective guys. You claimed that a Kyokushin fighter fights nothing like Shotokan but then couldn't tell the difference. You claim to be unbiased yet started this thread out of nowhere. I have trained with several Shotokan folk in my day and though there sanbon and ippon kumite was solid the minute we went to continuous fighting they had a lot of difficulty reacting and coping. Rather than making untrue assumptions why don't you try some training with the Kyokushin folks over your way? I have a feeling you might surprise yourself in more ways than one... The problem is that you are too protective of your school and when someone points out the flaws you can't stand the criticism . I pointed out the differences and stand by what I said , problem is you only want to read parts that suit . I have trained and sparr with some Kyukoshin and other styles in the past so I dont need to go and train with them to find out what I already know . At the end of the day these are both martial arts , they are both suppose to be a means to an end . Yes our strategy is to end the conflict as quick as possible ,idealy with one technique ..idealy I said ! we dont like to stand up face to face and exchange blows to find out who can last longer , we dont like to get hit but to avoid getting hit and dish out our own strikes ...that the difference that you claimed I have failed to address and you keep brushing aside . Its intersting that you call me biased yet you base your opinion on shotokan from a breif contact you had with some shotokan people and decided they are no good at fighting just good at one step three step kumite ! Its not about individuals who can be talented or not , had proper training or not , and they exist in any school . Its about the concept and structure of the system as a whole , that is why I said I would not base my opinion on the two individuals in kumite that Basaiguy posted .

How do you know he's a Shotokan fighter though? I am a bit phsicic ! Don't play the lotto anytime soon. That's actually Shihan Nick da Costa, 6th Dan in Kyokushin Karate and who has only studied Kyokushin Karate. http://www.docklandsdojo.co.uk/page4.htm No wonder I have never won anything in the lotto ! is it really ? I know of nick Decosta ,he is from England with sensei Arneil ,his usiro mawash is very much like shotokan delivery ...anyway I did originaly say that the winner of that fight does nort necessarily mean a superior style even thought I thought he was shotokan ...so there you go dude ...

How do you know he's a Shotokan fighter though? I am a bit phsycic..!

That was why I referenced Ali. He kept his hands low as he fought, because he was quick and an excellent counterpuncher and wanted his opponents to think he was leaving an opening. If you establish a rhythm with that bouncing, all they have to do is time when you do your forward movement and they can easily catch you off balance. It probably works in a format when you typically only have to worry about one technique at a time, but in continous fighting it's a big weakness. I'm still letting you critique the video bassaiguy posted before I say my piece on it. Pretty impressive knockout actually. There are ways and means not to be predictable with your rythem ...all about experience and quality . The video he posted was great ...but to me it is not an evidence of one style over another ...this is my unbiased view on it ...although the shotokan guy won ...

For some that may be the case. In other cases, going back to your Ali reference, they often keep a lower guard in an attempt to draw attacks up high so they can use that to their advantage. One of my favorite fighters, Hajime Kazumi, is very much like that. He just waits for a high kick to come and demolishes the supporting leg. As can be a rear straight from a more kickboxing-oriented stance. bassaiguy used one from 1987. Does it really change that much over the years? Any comments on that video by the way? Most of the clips are so short it's tough to tell but I still think they look slug footed compared to other fighters in different striking arts. The bouncing thing is always a poor idea as well, very easy to get swept or eat a hard low kick. Which take us back to square one ,they adopt the lower guard becuase they are not worried about being punched in the face ... bouncing on the foot would be wrong if you bounce up and down ,not if you are going forward and back on the ball of your feet , it gives you fluidity to go in any direction you want . Great emphasis and attention was given to us not to do that ... if you see them bouncing up and down then they are not doing it right ,they will be very easy to score on or swept off their feet .

So their stance and guard is unrealistic (despite being the adopted stance of virtually all striking arts that fight full contact) but lunging forward in an over-committed zenkutsu dachi is realistic? Do you have any experience fighting outside of Shotokan or is that the basis for your entire comparison? Because I find it very strange you don't see where Narushima is setting up his angles and using the distance to his advantage. He is quite good at it, hence why at a mere 70kg/154 pounds he could take on and beat much heavier fighters. You are also forgetting that Kyokushin and other knockdown styles have tournaments for those wearing gloves: You can see though how adding the gloves makes it more like kickboxing and less like karate, hence why the preference for knockdown still remains as it's still true to the intentions of Mas Oyama (who, interestingly enough, earned his black belt in Shotokan under Gichin Funakoshi himself). The reason why it may not look as appealing to Shotokan fighters who prefer fighting from the outside is Oyama also had an extensive background in Goju Ryu which favors infighting and was a big influence on Kyokushin jissen kumite. And you honestly feel the Shotokan fighters in the video I posted were more fluid? Is that his name Nurishima ? he is great fighter ,very powerful as I saw pounding the bag wit his punches and kicks ,we all have those exceptionally gifted people ,you put him in a MMA cage and I am sure he can still handle himself . I am sure he knows all too well about angles and distancing and timing ,I was questioning the adopted guard and stance in a kyukoshin kumite as general which does set bad habits asthey are not worried about theirfaces being blown away with face punch. I saw the second video with gloves and you are right they are more like kick boxers , I had never seen this type of kumite before from kyokoshin ,atleast they are protecting their heads against punches here although their techniques are more kick boxing than karate . an over commited zenkutsu dachi with a lung or reverse punch is just as bad ,but well commited one is extremely powerful and devastating . You had to go back to 1985 to bring up your example of shotokan kumite ?! did you see the one I posted ? although even in the one you posted these fighters are aware of each others intetions and speed and trying to close each other down . No they don't look very fluid in the one you posted from 30 years ago that is becuase of the reason I mentioned above but what about the one I posted from JKA ? you care to comment on them ? My experience outside of shotokan is with Olympic free style wrestling , but I will post this video of my sensei who I trained with for 18 years ,this is the kind of shotokan I practiced and learned ,this is the stance we adopt in kumite ,the emphasise was more towards self defence but we did competition style training but the stance virtually remain the same ,only a little smaller in close quarter self defence sitautions . Check 0:30 for the stance I am talking about ..

No not really ...I can't see those at all in the video you posted , I see two people not worried about being punched in the face having an unrealistic guard and stance . where is in shotokan you try and stay out of the range of your opponent becuase they will knock you out with a face punch if you don't ! My comparison with Ali was about fluidity versus static ,of course Ali was a boxer and was not allowed to kick and was not worried about being kicked so hence ... and to Dobersky ... there are tons of clubs and groups of shotokan and the diference between them ranges in quality from a scale of 1 to 100 ...so which ones did you meet ? I have also seen many rigid shotokan people and also very dynamic and fluid ones too . Like many others in other styles they are stuck at around shodan ( I am being generous) level and never progressed beyond and just keep repeating the same thing over and over ... If you watch this kumite you may notice the difference in their guard as they are trying to protect their faces as best as they can and when they can't it can be knock out .