judoguy

Check out Ufc 44 which was his debut. After pulling off about 3 judo throws, he got a standing kimura, did a nice sumi gaeshi (corner throw) securing the kimura lock and gaining the submission in the first round. ufc 46 was his second fight in the ufc against Canadian fighter George St. Pierre. This was a lose for Karo but it was also one of the most entertaining fights of the night. After nearly submitting St. Pierre 4 times and pulling off some nice reversals Karo ultimately was beaten with a nice ground and pound strategy by George who is Crazy strong. In one sequence Karo actually had the kimura but St. pierre actually muscled his way out of it! St. Pierre won by decision. His third fight was in ufc 49 where he took on Gracie jujitsu fighter Nick Diaz who is a Brown belt under Ceaser Gracie. This in my opinion was the best fight of the night. Both fighters pulled off some amazing reversals and displayed great ground work but the difference in this match was Karo's ability to control position, and Diaz's unability to stop the repeated takedows by Karo which ultimately gave him the edge on the scorecards and the victory. In all honesty the fight could have went to either way. In ufc 51 he took on Chris Lytle and basically dominated him with great judo. He threw Lytle with his famous "Drop Seoi nage", double legs, and with a nasty uchi mata that landed Lytle head first on the ground and just about took all the energy out of him. And just as I described above he took out Matt Serra in great performance. Now I hear he may get a shot at Matt Hughes but as far as I know this has'nt been officially announced. Also he has created a set of tapes called "judo for MMA" that show some good stuff for those who are interested.

Hey guys, and gals I have a question for you. I was asked by my nephew about starting bjj and judo. He wanted to know which one he should start first. Well all of you should know that I'm biased when it comes to this topic (check the name ) but I think my rational for this is sound. If you are interested in judo and bjj I would recommend you take up judo first and here is why. Judo will give you a good working knowledge of the ground and thus the transition to bjj would be smoother. On the flipside however if you train in bJJ first and then switch to judo you will be completely lost as to what to do because you will have little to no foundation to start from when you learn the throws. The nuances of throws are just much harder to learn then the nuances of ground work.

Yoshida is too big and powerful for Karo. But Karo has the edge in that he has been able to make his judo work better in the UFC then Yoshida has in pride. Keep in mind that the judo they do at the Hayastan dojo is more for MMA then for judo competition. Also in my opinion PRIDE has superior fighters then the UFC does so this may be why Yoshida has a tougher time using his judo with greater success.

I don't think he can beat Hughes yet. Hughes is the top of the welter weight division food chain and yes, Karo has had big trouble with wrestlers. But on the flipside Karo is a vastly improved fighter then he was when he fight Sherk. Karo's best hope is to not fear hughes and bring it right to him just like BJ Penn did. And I have no doubt that he will be ready. I have seen him train at the hayastan and this kid is INTENSE, but I'd still pick Hughes in a decision. But I will be rooting for Karo. And by the way I was at the Hayastan 2 weeks ago talking to Gokor and we were chatting about why it was that Karo hadn't been on the main card until UFC 53. He has put out a good showing everytime he was in the octagon even in his lose to St. Pierre so I don't know what gives.

Learn to impose your will on your opponent and have a general strategy. The problem I see with a lot of styles is that they don't have any overall strategy other then if he does that then you do this. I'm talking about an overall strategy that is freeflowing and incorporates natural movements. Martial arts that teach that will give you a good chance of surviving an unarmed conflict.

Oh and keep in mind that this is a match of judo as a martial art v bjj as a martial art and not a sport grappling match. If it were a sport grappling match there is no doubt in my mind that Matt Serra would have dominated Karo.

I love what this kid is doing for the sport. He is making people look past olympic judo and to NHB. This helps people to train in the MARTIAL ART of judo with the ENTIRE arsenal of chokes, locks, and throws because they will realize that sport judo is not good enough for NHB. Karo and Yoshida have done more to help the evolution ( some would say he is returning judo to it's pre WWII roots) of judo in just a few short years then most can do in their entire career. Kudos to the kid. He beat the crap out of Matt Serra who is not just a BJJ blackbelt, but a WORLD CHAMPION BJJ blackbelt under Renzo Gracie, which makes it all the more sweeter for me. Here is a recap of the fight. Karo Parisyan vs. Matt Serra Welterweight Bout Round One Serra rocks Parisyan with a right hand as the fight starts. Karo drops. Serra is all over him. He is pounding the judoka. After 30 seconds, Karo works to his feet. Wow, Serrra’s hands look much better than the past. Karo is bleeding from the nose. 3:30 left. They clinch. Karo throws Serra and goes for a kimura. Serra stands and lands two more bombs on the feet. Serra circles. Serra lands a big right leg kick. He taunts Karo with his chin. Karo misses. Another big leg kick by Serra. Karo lands a right hand. Karo misses with a wild right. Serra counters with a right. Karo waives him in and starts talking trash. Serra responds. This fight seems personal all of a sudden. Karo throws a 1-2, but Serra lands a counter right. Karo misses wildly again. Serra lands another right. Leg kick by Serra. Karo three jabs. Karo left high kick followed by two punches. Serra throws a front kick. Karo catches it and takes him down. Parisyan lands two huge shots in the ground and pound. Serra stands. Parisyan takes his back standing. Serra rolls to the ground. Karo has the mount. Serra rolls to butterfly guard. Parisyan lands good shots. The fighters hug at the end of the round. Even round. Round Two They exchange on the feet early. Karo tries a spinning back kick, but referee Mario Yamasaki halts the action to rid loose tape from Serra’s left glove. They both miss right hands. Karo bodylock, slam. He stacks Serra up, but the BJJ expert throws an up kick. He sits up against the fence and Karo lands a few shots. Serra stands. Karo goes for a takedown, but Serra grabs a guillotine. Karo pulls out, throws him and Serra stands right up. They are in an over-under bodylock. Clinch after missed shots, nothing. Karo misses a high kick. Renzo Gracie yells instructions and Karo waives him off with a finger – how funny. They trade right hands, but Karo is stalking. 1:30 left. Thai clinch, Karo knee. Karo paws at his foe. Serra lands a right. Karo lands a left hook. Karo locks him up against the fence and takes him down with 55 seconds left. Parisyan pounds from the half guard. Serra sits up as Parisyan tries to pass. Parisyan big elbows from the half guard. Karo pounds down with more elbows. Karo pounds away for the final 10 seconds. Big round for Parisyan. 20-19 for Parisyan in the fight. Round Three Front kick by Karo. Serra misses a right hand. They lock up in the center and Karo throws him. Karo takes his back and is working for an arm bar. Serra rolls to his back. Karo has the arm, but Serra rolls out and stands up. They lock up again. Karo takes him down. Half guard. Karo pounds away and then rests. Karo has the side mount as he passes Serra’s guard. Serra rolls to a turtle position. Karo takes his back and pounds away with hammer fists. Serra rolls over, but Karo stays in the side mount. No, half guard by Serra. Karo pounds away. Karo lands several elbows. This is a very dominant round for Karo. Serra stands up. Karo throws him again. Side mount. Karo rains down punches and opens a cut over Serra’s right eye. He takes Serra’s back and gets a rear-naked choke. Serra rolls out and puts Karo on his back. Karo in his guard and Serra stacks him up. He lands some punches. But it isn’t enough to steal the round. Karo Parisyan wins by unanimous decision.

Sure. Here is an excerpt form the history of BJJ. "While in Brazil, I learned about a Grand Master named "Fadda," who learned Jiu-Jitsu from a man named Luis Franca. Like Carlos Gracie, Franca also learned Jiu-Jitsu (Judo) from Meada. Fadda took the Jiu-Jitsu he learned from Franca and started his own school of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil. His popularity is not as great as the Gracie family, but nonetheless, he is an example of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu being refined and practiced outside the Gracie family. His students compete in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and consider their art separate from both Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and the older styles of Jiu-Jitsu in Japan. This stands as evidence that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is not the same thing". Also you have to keep in mind that Maeda was calling what he was teaching the Gracies "jujitsu" and not "judo" for the very reasons that you mentioned.

I'm telling you I just don't like it. Helio has expressed concerns about the direction of BJJ as well. And as far as different organizations of bjj well basically there already are different ones. You have Gracie jiujitsu, machado jiu jitsu, and just bjj. You have the students of Rolls Gracie doing their thing, the students of carlos jr, doing their thing, You even have older judo masters in brazil who have their students in the mix. Helio's family wasn't the only family in brazil that Maeda introduced to judo. All bjj isn't the same, bjj is mearly a generic term for the art that was introduced to them by Maeda with different schools having different ways of doing the techniques. But the Gracies are by far the largest and most popular of the bjj players.

I do and I have. I don't go to the ground unless I have to but I have put guy's on the ground with judo throws. When a guy tries to clinch with me I know what to do because I deal with it everyday in the dojo. If I do happen to get taken down or slammed my judo skills allow me to fall properly to reduce the chance of injury. And I know of all the challenges that the streets present in an unarmed conflict. But what I'm saying is you can train the way most combative sport stylists train AND mix in your self defense and scenario training with weapons and such. People have already adapted bjj techniques that help you to control someone on the ground while keeping them from drawing their knife/weapon and getting to yours. There are favorable positions for the street as opposed to the ring. It's not that hard to mix good self defense skills with realistic training. People just want an excuse not to train atheletically with full force because they want to stay in the martial arts matrix. Instead of taking the red pill and dealing with the REALITY that maybe some of the stuff they learn is outdated and ineffective, they choose to take the blue pill and remain perpetually and purposely IGNORANTabout the martial arts and update the way the train. You can mix tradition with progressive, it's not that hard. My base art is judo. I love judo, but I know that judo can't prepare me for all that I may face in the streets. But what it can do is prepare me to handle what it was designed for...Prevailing in hand to hand unarmed combat against a resisting opponent. For all the rest (multiple attakers, weapons, etc.) there are other professionals who know more about that then I or Shihan Kano ever did, so I take seminars with them to add to my arsenal. I will never study any art that claims to prepare you for ALL situations because I think my time is better spent learning one good hand to hand art as opposed to spreading me time between weapons, fighting, dancing, or whatever else those kinds of schools do.

One only has to look at the early UFC events to see what a good streetfighter can do. In UFC 3 Royce Gracie was subjected to an absolute BEATING by Kimo. Royce eventually won the fight but was too injured to continue in the event. That was a BJJ Blackbelt who has studied for a lifetime being beaten senseless by a streetfighter like Kimo. Now if that can happen to Royce Gracie, why not to you? Do not underestimate a brawler. The average martial artist gets training in kata/forms. Thugs get their training one way and one way only...By DOING IT! Plain and simple. You know that eye jab technique that is so precise and works so effectively in class on your none resisting partner? Try that on a 6'2 225 lb thug doing a BLITZKRIEG attack on you. I bet you won't land it so cleanly then. How would you regain the advantage against such an attack? How would you recover from a sucker punch? The answer is you won't. But a thai boxer would be able to. Why? because he has trained and fought for real! He knows how to weather the storm, how to punch accurately and with power against a fully resisting opponent thats trying to knock his block off. What happens when that same 6'2" 225 lb thug clinches with you and tries to slam you to the ground? Would you be able to break his clinch or turn the tables on him and slam him down? No you won't, but a judoka would. A judoka has done it against a fully resaisting opponent almost since the first day of his training. And what if that same thug does get you on the ground and begins to punch you repeatedly? Would you be able to sweep him off of you or at least control him so that he can't tee off on your head? Would you be able to reverse position and choke him out or dislocate his elbow and shoulder? No you wouldn't, but a BJJ student would. A bjjer does it repeatedly everyday that he is in the gym against a fully resisting partner. Are you starting to see a pattern here?

We've seen it happen to Judo and TKD. Judo was so ultra effective during WWll that the allieds had to rethink their entire hand to hand curriculam because our soldiers were getting trashed by the japanese in hand to hand combat. Meanwhile TKD was helping the koreans drive out the japanese from their land, and was used in the korean war as well. All until they decided to become olympic sports. And now we have BJJ going down the same path but in a much shorter period of time. Becoming a bjj black belt nowadays isn't the same as becoming one 6 years ago because the art is being diluted with sport leakage much like judo before it. And lets say if it does become an olympic sport, there is no way that they can have the current rules that they have for bjj tourney's because no time limits for ground fighting ain't gonna' fly with the olympic commitee. What do you guy's make of this?

The reason BJJ worked so well in the UFC and in general is strategy. If your not trained in grappling they take you down and submit you. If you are well trained on the ground they can trap you in their guard forever until you make a mistake and they gotcha' ala Royce Gracie v Ken Shamrock in ufc 1. The guard is a very deceptive position because it gives the APPEARANCE of vulnerability. If you're in a good BJJ players guard it LOOKS like you can lean back and go for a leglock, but then next thing you know your being choked out. That is why bjj is so effective on the ground on your back. As for the main post I agree completly. If you want to be good against a well trained opponent; bjj, judo, muay thai, sambo, kyokushin, TKD (non olympic), shuai chiao, all styles of western wrestling, and boxing/kickboxing are the way to go. One of the reasons, among others, is because these arts can be both offensive and defensive in nature whereas other arts are all about trying to react to your opponents aggression. Even if you look at more modern arts like jkd, defendo, krav maga, all of those arts are based on the best elements from the afore mentioned styles. But that does not negate the fact that other styles can and have prepared people for conflicts on the streets against untrained to semi trained opponents.

Funny that you say that because that is what I was thinking after I made my post

There is no such thing as streetfighting as a system or way of fighting, only people who are trained and those who have little to no training. All streetfighting is just a setting in which a conflict takes place, nothing more. You should go to the combative arts forum and check out goshinmans topic entitled "the truth about the streetfighter and streetfighting". There is some good info there.

Because that's not always the case. Imagine your at the beach in a tank top, shorts, and thong sandels. Would you be comfortable fighting in sandels as opposed to shoes? More over would your techniques still apply if your opponent was wearing that same getup?

That is an excellent observation. It is for that reason primarily that some martial artists aren't prepared for an actual conflict. Being timid in the face of danger puts you at a severe disadvantage when in a conflict with someone who is prone to violence. I also liked how goshinman pointed out the 3 kinds of fighters and their tendencies. Alot of martial arts can prepare you for the first type of encounter but have no idea how to deal with 2-3. I think that if any assumption is made, it should be that your opponent is skilled. And while your at it how about assuming he is armed and has buddies until proven otherwise. I think that goshinman could have talked alittle bit more about things that can happen while in a streetfight and about fighter number 2, but all in all a great post goshinman.

What makes judo a great martial art for self defense is the variety of options it gives you in a fight. Throws, pins, locks, and chokes. Stand up, plenty of ground work make it probably the best ALL AROUND grappling art in the world. I've seen a guy get knocked out cold with an extra nasty osoto otoshi on the street before. You can also use some of the techniques standing up as well such as waki gatame (armpit lock). When the inevitable clinch comes up in a fight you will be comfortable, and when the fight hits the ground you will be comfortable. If you are concerned about striking then I would recommend supplementing your judo with a good no non sense stand up art such as krav maga that will teach you good striking and self defense skills in a short period of time. Remember with judo as your base you don't need to be Chuck Liddel or Wanderlai Silva, you just need to be able to hold your own in striking until you can work the clinch and take em' down hard to do your judo thing on him.

Quote: But when it comes to submissions you should be able to pull off all of the high percentage submissions such as cross body armbars, triangle chokes, naked chokes, neck cranks, and kneebars. I don't see a problem training with the gi primarily with that in mind, but it does feel good to get out of it sometimes. "How is that a reason to train in the gi? Everything you just named can be done easily without the gi." And where did I say it wasn't? I basically said that subs could be pulled off with the gi or without it. Only throws are in question when it comes to gi or no gi training. And for the record when people talk about no gi training they are usually talking about MMA style grappling without a shirt or anything. Well that isn't exactly the height of realism because of that fact that in MMA a person can slip out of a triangle choke for example because of heavy sweating and the like (See ufc 50 Trigg v Cherismo), where as on the streets they will have on clothing that will aide you in your submission attempts much like if they were wearing a gi.

So what is the real deal with krav maga? Will it give you some real skills or what? I ask because I'm thinking about taking it up but I don't know if it's all hollywood hype or not.

Chokes are a good option IF you have witnesses who saw things the way you saw them. If not you could be in trouble. Having said that I think that a person who is properly trained and has done it on a resisting opponent before shouldn't have too many problems. The only problem I can think of is the fact that very few people who train in an art that teaches chokes have actually choked someone all the way out. In the self defense class that I teach once my students become comfortable with chokes and get to an advanced level tap outs for chokes are not allowed. This may sound crazy, but in the streets if someone has a choke on you there is no tapping out. I want my students to fear being choked out so much that they put extra effort into not being caught in one. I had a guy who said he felt like he was actually killing the person when he applied it. I asked him what he meant by that and he said that when you have the choke locked in and you started to feel them passing out it was the closest thing to killing someone he had ever experienced because it seems like the life is being drained from the person when doing it and he didn't feel comfortable with it. Has anyone else experienced this?

Ok so maybe that was a little too large a gap in training. Hey TJS weren't you doing krav maga before? What happend?

Here is an interesting topic. If someone had one year of muay thai, boxing, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu training with a top notch team like team Quest or Militech would they be able to beat someone with 10 years of hardcore Kyokushinkai, judo, and jujitsu training.

In judo most people advocate training with the gi because it is more realistic then training without it because afterall, no one fights naked. This is true to a certain extent. While no one fights butt naked, clothing such as t-shirts are not exactly a gi if you catch my drift. Some throws will be null in void in street situations unless the person is wearing a thick shirt, sweater, or jacket. But when it comes to submissions you should be able to pull off all of the high percentage submissions such as cross body armbars, triangle chokes, naked chokes, neck cranks, and kneebars. I don't see a problem training with the gi primarily with that in mind, but it does feel good to get out of it sometimes.