judoguy

It all depends on your objectives. I personally would prefer to master grappling and then supplement it with other things. As subgrappler said above the guy's who are at the top of MMA right now i.e. Couture, Liddell, Wanderlei, Crocop, Fedor, etc. have mastered a single disipline and then supplemented it with other things. Right now the jacks of all trades are at a disadvantage because of this. I am primarily a Judoka but I box and have done Greco and Sambo as well. I have also taken the time to learn the basics of the thai clinch and the kyokushin round kick. I've never formally studied bjj but I have rolled with some bjjers and picked up some good things from them. Belive it or not I even picked up some things from Aikido that I have found effective on the streets.

What is the best way to manuver a person into this position? Has anyone here ever obtained during a grappling or MMA match?

Judo as it is practiced today is primarily a throwing art with competition rules the way they are. Some schools vary on the ratio between ground work and throws and takedowns. Every now and then you will find a judoka who is as good on the ground as he is standing but not often. There are still some old school instructors out there who are ground wizards but not many. If you want to be great on the ground try BJJ. It will bridge the gap between the ground techniques that judo once had and the newer stuff out there now. Or you could go to Gene Lebell and learn from him as I did.

Seems like the more commercialized an art becomes the more diluted it gets. The trend will continue with BJJ at the rate it's growing. Hopefully not but I don't see how it will be any different.

I agree with that. If you are confident ion your ground game you will be confident enough to commit your whole body into a throw. There are more things that go along with that but that certainly is a key factor.

It's good for a trained attacker as well. In unarmed combat anyway.

Wow I can't belive this thread is still going strong.

To my knowledge the only rules in the early UFCs were no fish hooking or eye gouging.

I disagree with that. Those positions haven't been discovered but have been REdiscovered by and refined by great grapplers. And I didn't mean to say that BJJ is a dead art as in it's ineffective, but rather that when Helio decided to make a definitive text on what bjj is and isn't he essentially closed the canon on what consists BJJ. Techniques will be refined and people will find more effective ways to apply them but the technique in and of itself isn't new. Thats all I was trying to say. Sorry if I came off as attacking bjj

One more thing to consider. Most of the more serious injuries I have seen and heard of have been cases where both parties were beginners do to their eagerness to execute the moves they end up going too fast and get hurt. Just relax and take your time, you have a long time to explore and discover the nuances of the techniques.

Such as? If we are locked up in a clinch or on the ground grappling his options are much more limited then if we were in a stand up striking situation. He can go for a weapon, try to throw or take me down, try to escape, or try to strike. But that's about it. Those responses are much easier to prepare for then a open space striking situation.

No way it's over. But a good summary by Justice Zero. Study JJJ with BJJ or Judo to get it all.

Tito would get beaten senseless by Wandi now. Vitor got choked out by Alistair Overeem in the last pride event. Chuck did OK until he got destroyed by Rampage, but I think Chuck would do well since it seems that Quinton is in a rough strech of his career. Like I said, Zuffa puts on a great show as far as production goes...but there is a reason why UFC fighters like Chuck and Randy keep saying they want the pride belt. It's because they know that pride is where the best are and to be the best you have to beat the best in Pride.

Biting was allowed in those early UFC fights.

Without question certain martial arts can be detrimental to self defense. This is especially the case in certain arts that advocate strange and unatural body positions and the movements are not freeflowing. When you choose a striking art you must pick one that has freeflowing movements and not stiff moves. STAY AWAY from styles that teach you "if his does that then you do this" in a striking situation. That isn't realistic because in a striking situation the action is unpredictable and it's impossible to accurately judge time and distance to catch his wrist and apply lock A. Or block and do B. The martial art that teaches responses that are efficient, natural, and flow best with the chaos of a real fight are the best to choose from. That is why arts like Muay thai and kyokushin are so successful. They don't teach trained responses to certain attacks, but instead focus on foot work, proper blocking and combination striking in natural, freeflowing movements. A grappling situation is different and you can train for "if your opponent does this then you do that". In a grappling situation the space is closed between the two parties and you are basically fighting to keep or establish position. In a sense it's more like a chess match. There are certain techniques to escape from what your opponent is trying to do to you. For example the way to escape a person trying to do a kimura lock from the bottom/guard position is to spin out and do an armbar. So in essense your teacher can tell you "if the guy does this, then you do that". And then you have the problem of the concept of SELF DEFENSE in and of itself. A true martial art has to be both offensive AND defensive options, not one or the other. Self defense is implying that you are a victim and you will train as such. But in certain conflicts it is necessary to go on the offensive. Just my 2 cents.

I heard this story. It actually went like this. The bjj guy got the takedown, armbarred the crook and actually SNAPPED his elbow. The bjj guy got up thinking the fight was over and the crook picked up a metal pole with his right hand and beat the living hell out of the bjj guy. It turned out that the bjj guy snapped his LEFT elbow but the crook was right handed. Burt Richardson told that story. The point was that you always have to follow up on your attack, and yes... You fight like you train.

Which is why I said the UFC puts on a better show. Who from the UFC do you think could do well in pride? I think that Andrei Arvloski would do well in the pride heavyweight division. If he beats Frank Mir I don't see the ufc being able to keep him unless they break the bank open. Outside of Andrei I don't see much in terms of who would have a legit shot at the pride heavy and light-heavy weight belts.

Yes and no. It's normal to feel pain and stiffness at first. Your body needs time to get accustomed to being streched and extended in strange ways. Give it a month and you should get used to it. Now as for your throat hurting I haven't heard of that. See a doctor just in case to make sure everything is all right.

Thats a strange rule that they have in pride. Kicking a downed opponent is ok but no elbow's, what is that?. As far as Tito is concerned the competition is just so much tougher in Pride I just don't think he is a talented enough fighter mentally to deal with it. Too emotional. What do you think of the current MMA shows? IMO pride is the best in overall talent but UFC puts on a better show as far as production goes. What fighters from UFC do you think could do well in pride?

I stand corrected about randy. As for Tito I really hope he stays away from K-1 or Pride. He is a UFC style fighter and his domain is in a cage under UFC rules. If he fights in pride's 205 lb division he will get his head kicked in.

Could'nt have said it any better then that.

Yes and no. A two handed is certainly more effective but a one figer fishhook is still hard to get your teeth on if it's already "HOOKED" in. Pun intended

One teaches techniques and theories, the other puts those theories and techniques into practice.

Yeah I know, he has had trouble finishing but he still puts on an exciting fight because everytime he steps into the octagon people have that anticipation that they will see something they have never seen before. If he puts butts in seats then you have to put him in the spotlight. How often does Randy or Tito finish? Chuck Liddell is the only fighter who is finishing on a regular basis lately. In the UFC anyway. And speaking of Tito, whats this rumor I hear about him not fighting in the UFC anymore? Is there any truth to this?

Basically I look at MMA as the testing ground for techniques. The ones that I find useful I and others like me, modify them to suit my needs on the street. For example the floating knee on chest position is useful because it allows you to control you primary opponent while being in a position to see if he reaches for a weapon or to flee if his buddies come to the resque. Hammer fists can be rained down on a person from that position as well. The U.S. Army with the help of the Gracies, have modified BJJ to a battlefield worthy art so effective that it has become a standard field manual; FM 3-25.150. Also Ernest Emerson of Emerson knives has taken bjj and other grappling techniques and added knife offense and defense from the ground that he teaches to the spec ops community. At the Valhalla training academy they teach a form of grappling that allows you to retain and control your weapon while stopping the bad guy from getting to his, again derived from wrestling, judo, and BJJ. Others modify the clinching tactics of muay thai and boxing into a close quarter battle system for up close and personal shooting and defense. Judo and bjj helped lots of women successfully defend themselvs against men. A women battered for years by her husband takes up BJJ and after 1 month of lessons she defends herself by triangle choking him out. Another battered wife learns judo and uses it so successfully against her abusive husband that he ends up in a nursing home. A blind man uses judo to throw a guy trying to rob him. The list goes on and on. NHB/MMA is the testing ground for what works and what doesn't work in unarmed combat and has been modified to deal with armed combat. And it all stems from actual battle tested experience. Times change, criminals evolve, what worked in ancient times may or may not be valid now, Have your training methods evolved as well?