White Warlock

Soo... no pics of samurais, eh?

Where's WolverineGuy when you need him. After a workout, sugars are a good thing to take in. 100% grape juice, mixed with half a teaspoon of creatine, seems to be the #1 recommendation of body builders. Before working out, high protein, mid-level carb meals are recommended, or protein drinks. Vitamin/mineral complexes are recommended as well. It was stated to me that i should avoid taking carbs at least 4 hours before going to bed. Your body supposedly does most of its muscle/fat building during your sleep. Drinks like Gatorade (or the grape juice/creatine mix noted above) are not necessarily good to take 'while' you're working out, but instead... after you've worked out. During your workout, you should stick to water to keep yourself hydrated. The reason for this, as i have been led to believe, is that if you take 'sugar' drinks while exercising, your body goes into some sort of sugar-burn state that supposedly builds more fat than muscle. Do note, i am not an expert on this. The information i relate was obtained from reliable sources, but that does not ensure its accuracy.

Good post P&P

Apologies for interrupting, but what is the argument?

Actually, yes i would consider Muhammad Ali a martial artist. Just because boxing and wrestling originated from Ancient Rome's pankration, doesn't mean they aren't martial art systems, albeit converted into sport. Judo, as well, is a sport, and yet people call it a martial art. Also, Ali was a great boxer, but not necessarily a great fighter. Same could be said of a judoka, who may be a great judo practitioner, but not necessarily a great fighter. I do find it a little unnerving that the general tendency is to look at Asian martial art systems and to state they are the only ones that deserve to be called martial arts.

Pretty much everyone has a different definition of what a McDojo is, however the concept is based on McDonalds, which offers substandard products and services at unreasonably high prices and is geared toward expansion. Essentially a McDojo is a school, or more likely a chain of schools, whose #1 goal of profit undermines all other aspects of the business.

I rest my case.

Doug, no insult was posted by anyone. I said i took offense, which is quite different.

Well, here's a simple one... The teacher tells his student he will be instructing this day on how to fight with rocks. The teacher then hands his student four rocks. The teacher tells the student to throw the rocks over a ravine. After the student throws the rocks, the teacher directs the student to attack him with one of the rocks. Obviously, the student no longer has any rocks, nor is he capable of going over the ravine to secure a rock, so he states he cannot. The teacher asks why, and the student tells him why, at which point the teacher asks him why he did not keep one rock? The student, frustrated, tells the teacher that he, himself, had told him to throw the rocks. At which point the teacher asks, "can you not think for yourself?" Perplexed, the student asks, "but am i not supposed to be obedient?" The teacher says, "if all you want is to learn to throw rocks, then yes." The moral being: you will be given the tools and be told what to do with those tools, but it is up to you to learn beyond that which is instructed.

I believe that one goes more like he has four cups, one filled with large rocks, another with small pebbles, another with sand and another with water. He then asks his students if all the cups are full. He then pours the small pebbles into the cup with the large rocks. The pebbles fall into the various cracks between the large rocks. He then again asks if they are all full. He then pours the sand into the cup containing the large rocks and small pebbles. The sand fills up the spaces between the small pebbles and the large rocks. Again, he asks if the remaining cups are full. He then pours the water into the same cup, which soaks down into the sand. He closes by grabbing another cup of water and asks if it is full. He then attempts to place a large rock in the glass of water, which causes the water to overflow and spill on the table. At which point he gives his lecture about making sure you take care to put the large rocks, representative of the important things in life, first or you'll make a mess of things...

It also comes down to circumstance. In the circumstance of being a bouncer, the opposition isn't initially targetting you... you're more often the third party participant, which lends itself to being given the opportunity to implement submission techniques. Add to this your position of authority, which tends to buffer the likelihood of outright assaults, and you're mainly using the martial arts as a tool of your job. Martial arts can serve as tools for various jobs, but it is when they come into play in surviving a 'life-threatening' altercation that things change dramatically. I worked in the crisis center for mental health and my skills at aikido, conflict resolution, and my tendency to respect people regardless of their condition, worked well as tools. However, in a 'life-threatening' altercation, i abandon the tools of aikido altogether and go right into rending and pounding the crap out of the opposition.

ooo, i just turned red!

That is actually one of my assertions, in that i was an avid practitioner of wrestling, judo, and ju-jitsu at the time, yet found so many ju-jitsu schools putting way too much attention to stand-up techniques and other schools (primarily TKD) that were churning out tons of black belts with false confidence. But, that's another discussion.

So are we to say that martial arts is not about fighting? The art of war, as we study it in the training halls, is primarily about melee. That is, it is about fighting. Fighting is not merely your ability to punch, but where, how, when, why, etc. There are various schools of martial arts that teach things 'other' than the martial arts. Many include religion, language studies, ancient or foriegn ettiquette, and other things that are truly 'not' about martial arts... but about the nations those particular styles originated from.

First off, let me say i am not keen with the derogatory manner of your posts. Moving on... Then you read it wrong, because that's not what i said. I did? Yes, you did. Sounds pretty much the same to me. Read it again. I did not mention training or teaching in that line. In fact, in another line, which was in response to one of your queries, i clearly stated, "These are things that get worse if you push it in a fight, so full contact is applied to make these problems apparent, but not to get rid of these problems. The practitioner needs to spend time working these things out of their 'habit,' in low/semi-contact before they can full-on spar again." I.e., expose the flaws during full contact... and train/teach during low/semi-contact. No, i wasn't. You stated very clearly, while discussing this exact same thing, you had not really thought about it. No, we're not here to argue, but to share and discuss. I can argue with a turnip, but it gives me no lessons. As to the reason for my snippitiness, it had to do with your comment about how you have a "hard time believing it." I took offense. Not merely because you said that, but because you essentially said, "it sounds much to complicated and ellaborate" as a basis for argument as to why you don't believe. And this after i already stated that, "In practice it is much less complicated," which caused your response to seem facetious. There are some things that are just too hard to explain with words. They must be practiced and pointed out. You know this. Yet when you asked for an explanation and i made a reasonable effort to provide one, despite the fact i didn't need to, i received for my troubles a backhanded response. Anyway, here's something for you to work with that is along the same lines and is one of the training tricks. When you get hit in the solar plexus next time... don't try to regain your wind. Don't try to inhale. Instead, with all your force, repeatedly and quickly push out the remaining air in your lungs. By forcing your diaphragm to contract further than it intended, you uncramp it and you recover almost immediately. Now, please... chill with the attitude.

Jumping back in a bit late, but here goes: Hehe, well... as i see it, most people breed, but only a select few should. Seriously though, the basis for the argument about, "most people don't get it" is that... well, most people don't. In my line of work, small business consulting, i encounter thousands of close-minded individuals; people who think they know what they're doing and insist upon the effectiveness of their approach, but who fail to recognize they're simply keeping the boat afloat and not actually sailing to a destination. All in all, what i'm saying is... the vast majority of persons on this planet simply do not delve deep. Essentially, their studies are shallow and they learn only what they need to function. This applies to understanding politics, international relations, economics, child psychology (child rearing), sociology, etc. Martial arts is not merely hitting a bag or entering a ring and making points for a win, yet so many don't really see it as much more. Through my early years, i found my mind constantly challenged by my friends and so i didn't really feel too smart. But, when i joined the military, i was surrounded by friggin' idiots... and that's when i realized that my early years were designed. I chose who i hung around with, and i found out later that my friends were to be physicists, bio-physicists, top-ranking government research analysts, geologists, etc. Where am i going with this? Well, part of the problem with "looking at the big picture" is that we invariably do not. We instead look at our small little pocket of the universe and make assumptions as to how the rest of the world functions, based on the empirical evidence obtained from our personal examples. In the case for these discussions, all of us work out with like-minded individuals. In my case, i work out with those who strive to understand more. Beyond that which is presented. As to generalities, it is 'generally' not a good thing to do, but it is important, nonetheless, to realize that most of us do generalize, to one extent or another, especially when it comes to communicating concepts or ideas to others. For example, i'm sure nobody would be reading my posts if i were to break each and every aspect of my examinations into detailed dissertations. Instead, i shortcut it with generalities, making my thoughts seem less insightful, but nonetheless succeeding in providing a more lucid presentation of my ideas. Facts for my above-stated argument are everywhere, but it is most notable in the way most people respond to (or fail to respond to) international and political issues. It is these facts which substantiate the overall argument. You bring up a good point. Prior to 1992, I would get into countless 'friendly' arguments with fellow martial artists about training, and how many schools practiced in a "test tube" environment. Thier systems would work well when subjected to same or similar techniques or under optimal training conditions, but that when subjected to the harsh reality of a street fight... where people "don't fight the way you do, circumstances and terrain are not pristine, and your own body doesn't seem to work quite as well as it did during those friendly training sessions," these very same techniques would prove ineffective or inadequate. Shortly thereafter, the UFCs came to be... validating many of my assertions. Not all, mind you. note: as the UFCs slowly morphed away from a grand educational spectacle for martial artists, into a marketing project geared toward the ignorant masses, the messages i iterated became muffled. Such is the case now and i hold far less value in the lessons provided by the modern-day UFCs, as opposed to the early days. Although it may be fun to add new definitions, i don't think it is necessary to do so. As it stands, most everyone has been using the word, "street" to define what you call "full contact." Since the overwhelming majority of people have been using the definitions of, "non-contact, light-contact, full-contact, and street," i think we're set already and really don't need to redefine things.

Well, that was vague.

Although I agree with your assertion, i feel it important to bring up how people generally wield swords... with the same side forward.

Humility is fine and dandy, but i believe it defeats the purpose of answering this thread if humility would go so far as to override honesty.

Yeppers, in no uncertain terms Jackie Chan is a 'real' action hero. He does all his own stunts, and many are seriously risky. The guy has broken bones all over his body, including a fragment of his skull still lodged in his brain. Can't say the same for Seagull, Van Dancer, Governator, Jet Lie, or any other movie-magic martial artist of today. When someone asks what a martial artist should strive for, i point to Chan's humble personage and general outlook on life.

Hmm... 10 is perfect, which we all strive for, and can never obtain... unless we delude ourselves. 0 is an infant, totally incapable of self-preservation. I would say that 2-4 is the average human. I would think different areas should be considered as well: Range 0 - Groundwork = 7 Range 1 - Close Striking (elbows, hooks, knees, bite, lick) = 8 Range 1 - Throws, clinch, standing grapple = 7 Range 2 - Short Striking (punches, short kicks, knees) = 6 Range 2 - Weapons (knife, etc) = 6 Range 3 - Med Striking (lunge punches, medium kicks) = 5 Range 3 - Weapons (swords, etc) = 7 Range 4 - Long Striking (long kicks, charges) = 5 Range 4 - Weapons (long spears, etc) = 4 Range 5 - Short range missile (throwing knives, shirukens) = 6 Range 6 - Med range missile (archery, guns) = 6 Combat Theory = 7 Combat Avoidance (non-communication) = 6 Communication (de-escalation, etc) = 8 Instruction = 8 Fitness = 4 (too many friggin' injuries) Will (determination, perseverence) = 4 to 9 (matters if the cause is just) Let's see... that would be 7+8+7+6+6+5+7+5+4+6+6+7+6+8+8+4+(4 to 9) / 17 = 6.1 to 6.4

I know you were addressing SevenStar, but feel like chiming in. He didn't mention pain, he mentioned taking a hit. When adrenalin is in your body, pain isn't as big a factor as most people think. I'll pull up the gun analogy... When purchasing a gun for home defense, and the ammo to go along with it, there are a few things that need to be considered (by all means delta1, jump in): 1. accuracy 2. recoil (less is better) 3. penetration (not too much, not too little) 4. damage factor (mushroom, fragmentation, etc) 5. stopping power Interestingly enough, i've heard it argued over and over by professionals that stopping power is the #1 most important thing to consider. Stopping power is the ability of a shot to stop a person in his tracks, literally. It's essentially the baseball bat that people feel when they've been shot. Without that effect, people may not realize they've been shot, may not care, or may simply continue forward unimpeded. I've also heard argue that the #2 factor is recoil. The less the better. Recoil is the jumpback of your barrel when firing. The less, the quicker you are able to re-aim and refire and the less disruption your shots may receive. The gun analogy fits well with how full-contact works. If you are not used to taking hits, you may get "stopped in your tracks." If you are not used to the feeling of having a hit go awry, your gameplan could get disrupted and your overall effectiveness undermined. There is a huge difference between throwing punches/kicks in perfect succession, with little to no contact or disruption, and throwing punches/kicks while being barraged, battered, and tossed about.

hehe

As obnoxious as DLopez' post is, he is right. One can 'make up' any story to fit the argument, but stories do not make fact... fact makes fact. Even a single incident doesn't make fact. It only makes an incident. There is no comparative analysis. You cannot determine whether it was because he failed due to being non-contact, failed because he sucked, failed because he was studying TKD, or failed because he simply should have handed over his wallet. You cannot park someone in there, with the exact same mentality and skills, but change 'non-contact' into 'contact.' Real life does not present itself that way, and thus... it is not a fact. The fact is, no matter what system you study, no matter how hard you practice, no matter how many hits in the head you get during training... everything changes in a life-threatening confrontation. Everything. Nothing prepares you for war, nothing prepares you for death, thus nothing can prepare you for a lethal confrontation. All you can do is study hard, and hope those skills you have attained can find an opportunity to present themselves. What truly matters in the study of martial arts, is not the art of war, but the art of peace. It is learning when and where to fight, how to avoid a fight, and how to strive for peace with everyone... because there truly are very few reasons to battle.