TangSooGuy

Any TKD schools that practice original hyungs are not practicing TKD, they are practicing the kwan system (Ie Chungdokwan, Jidokwan, Ohdokwan, etc) Also, I should mention that when refering to TKD I should be more specific and say WTF TKD or KKW TKD. I am not comparing to ITF TKD due to the fact that ITF TKD still holds to its tradtional karate roots. So with that said, if the TKD school is not teaching Taeguks as their patterns then they are not practicing what is now considered WTF TKD or modern TKD. There is really no such thing as "Traditional" TKD. That would simply be Korean karate or original kwan system. Just going off what I've seen....Most Chung Do Kwan schools for example that I've seen claim TKD as their style... The addition of competition is not what I consider sad..I consider the loss of many hand techniques in today's schools due to the restrictions of competition sad...and that is what I have seen. i have met black belts from other schools that have never even seen some of the handtechniques I regularly teach in class. Agreed. Again this is just from personal experience, not anything I'm saying is inherent to either art. Just wanted to clarify a few points. Other than that, I'd have to agree with most of the points you made, and thanks for the response. .

Tom Y- What you say is true, up to a point, but Tom M is right- we're really splitting hairs... GM Shin states that "martial arts originated not in any one place, but all over the world as needed by primitive peoples." Just wanted to clear that up, as your post does seem to imply that all martial arts started in China... That said, The Shaolin temple probably is the cradle of Chinese and Asian martial arts... I happen to agree that most of the forms did have a Chinese origin...but trying to tell a karateka that is sometimes as bad as trying to tell a Korean stylist that everything they do didn't originate in Korea... As for the origin of the forms created by Itosu....it is said that they wre originally one form- Jae Nam... Truthfully they wre probably created from a combination of Jae Nam and Kong Sang Koon, also with similarities to Bassai Dai and its' predecessor, Pal Che... So While Itosu did create the Pinan forms, and Funakoshi rearranged them, Itosu didn't come up with them from scratch, and there is a Chinese influence that if you look hard you can trace back to Kong Sang Koon... Almost all martial arts are influenced in one way or another from the Chinese arts...getting people to admit that is the hard part. However, there is an equal amount of influence from Japanese and Okinawan methods... Truthfully, I think the prevalence of TKD has had a Korean influence on all modern martial arts, but most people probably wouldn't want to go there... tommarker is right about the argument, though...I think you guys are just looking at it from different angles.. To distill it down: 1) No, not ALL martial arts originated in the Shaolin Temple in China 2) Yes, the forms DO have a Chinese influence...

While I do believe that this is a "tall tale"...one I've eeven told my students from time to time, although I make sure they take it with a grain of salt...it is possible, although not likely.... For one thing, the horses we're talking about most likely weren't the size of the horse that the average person today thinks of.... ..for another thing, it is possible to jump that high, and I've seen people who can do it... Now, to do it reliably, in the heat of battle, wearing whatever armor, carrying weapons...not very likely, I'll admit. However, it has been shown that many legends and tales do have some basis in relaity, so it is not impossible for me to believe that at some point it did happen...just not as often as many people would have us believe... Besides...it would probably be more realistic to believe that they would just cut the legs off the horses... This is about as high as I've ever jumped using the kick in question, but I know people who can jump higher: http://www.homestead.com/nebucron2/files/flyingside.jpg

4th Dan, World Tang Soo Do Association I have been training for 20 years in traditional Tang Soo Do, in a curriculum that also includes quite a bit of Hapkido. I have trained in the weapons of our system, including the staff, knife, sword, and cane. In addition, I have some experience in knife fighting, as derived from Master at Arms James Keating's Riddle of Steel, and although my training comes second-hand, it comes from someone who he as allowed to teach there on several occasions. I also have some experience with flexible weapons and improvised weapons. I currently teach about 30 students out of a small YMCA, but hope to increase that over time. I am definitely open to new ideas, other styles, and new techniques. One of the strengths of our system is that our Grandmaster encourages mastersto learn as much as they can wherever they can, and bring it back to share with others.

The first one is "The Eye of the World". While it is fantasy, it is not "overdone", in my opinion. Their version of magic (a quite interesting spin on yin and yang, in my opinion) is actually pretty interesting. Also the storyline is of a pretty epic scale that rivals The Lord of the Rings in my opinion. Jordan's series is quite good...but if you get into be prepared to be in for the long haul... it's up to what..10 books now? ...and in the last few he is really starting to darg...the last one is truly 700 pages in which NOTHING major happened to advance the plot...

I think he's referring to the hard core Christian Right that thinks Harry Potter is encouraging children to become Satanists, that playing Dungeons and Dragons will corrupt your soul, that dancing and rock music are the tools of the devil, etc....

Don' t worry about price... worry about what you are getting. Price is going to vary wildly depending on location, frequency of training, the association to which the school belongs, the instructor's financial status, the surrounding area's median income, and too many other factors to list. You are far better off just watching classes, decidingwhat you want, and deciding how much you are willing to pay for it. Frankly, if I was offered a billion dollars, but the condition was that i would forget all my martial arts knowledge and related experience, I doubt seriously that I would take it...it is worth more to me than money. Do many schools overcharge? Absolutely! However, it never ceases to maze me that the same people who will pay $2.00 for a gallon of gas, $10.00 for a movie, $40-50 to get into an amusement park, $25.00 for dinner out, etc...will cry price gouging as soon as martial arts training begins to approach a level that will allow the instructor to actually put food on his table, pay his bills, and continue to offer the training.... $100/ month may be unreasonable, but it may be a value. It all depends on what you will get out of it.

I'd tend to agree witht that....again, in general... the problem with classifying it that way is that not all TSD schools or TKD schools will follow this pattern. You'll find TSD schools that fit closer into the TKD mold you described, and you can still find "traditional" TKD schools that practice the original hyungs. With the addition of the Chil Sung and Yuk Ro forms that many TSD students (but not all) now practice, it can't be said that all TSD students practice only the same forms that existed when Hwang kee first started... ..The truth of the matter is that the Korean government basically wanted ALL korean martial arts to be united as "Tae Kwon Do", and may Kwans and/or styles that didn't use the name before began to... If you ask the difference between modern TKD and TSD though, I'd tend to agree with the above post. You will, generally, see more willingness toa ccept Chinese, Japanese, and Okinawan influences in TSD than in TKD, which, in general, sought to remove itself from these influences and become a more uniquely Korean art... ...as for the emphasis on legs vs. hands, i'd tend to agree, but with more and more sport competition, I'm sad to say that alot of TSD is being driven that way as well... I'd also say you're more likely to see more grappling and joint locking techniques in a TSD school as opposed to TKD, but that, too will depend on the instructor. The problem isn't that there are no differences, just that one has to speak in generalities when dealing with these differences. To do otherwise is to imply that all TKD and TSD schools can be fit into a particular mold, and I just don'tthink that is the case. As has been said, there are TKD schools I could walk into and feel at home, while there are TSD schools I could enter and feel like a complete stranger to their method of practicing the art. Personally, I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to categorize the differences between styles, to attempt to explain why one is better than the other, etc.... The longer I train, the mre I realize that all martial arts are essentially the same, no matter how much people try to differentiate them.... I've yet to see a technique from another style that I could not easily adapt into my own, and have yet to come up witha technique unique to TSD, that could not be easily adapted to other systems as well....

For Fantasy: A Song of Ice and Fire series by George R R Martin Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan Runelords series by David Farland Dark Tower Series by Stephen King

The yellow in this picture is a sample of the "gold" gear from martialmart.com: http://store1.yimg.com/I/karatemart1_1808_4057246

According to the guy I know... go to: http://www.martialmart.com/mtifulsparse.html and order the gold gear...apparently even though it says gold, it is really yellow...

Women make outstanding martial artists...just ask my wife Anyway, she is not a ver large person, and I love watching are spar some of the bigger guys we have around, and seeing how badly she 'schools' them on how it's done...

How are you? Nice to see you over here. You'll probably see tommarker reply as well. I know there used to be someone in the association from the UK who posted here as well, but not sure if he is still around... I think that's about it, though....

Have to agree with the patch situation...it gets out of hand quickly. Some people just have to have a patch for everything.... It gets even harder when you are the one they ask to come up with designs for new patches Oh well, I'm a firm believer that what you DO is more important than what you WEAR.... ...but definitely ask about the guidelines from your instructor. Doing otherwise can be construed as disrespectful. And if you belong to a larger association, even your instructor may not have any say over what you put on your uniform. Personally, I have one 'tournament' uniform that has my certified judge patch and world championship patch on it, and other uniforms for day to day stuff... For some classes i don't even wear the embroidered belt... it can all just get to be a bit much after awhile...

I am also a TSD 'master', again for what it's worth...and I have to agree with you, sometimes the term is difficult to deal with, and sometimes it even gets in the way, but it is what it is. I really don't have anything against TKD...I've said it before and I'll say it again, both TSD and TKD are practiced with such a wide variety of emphases between studios, that trying to differentiate the two can be difficult at best. mind-numbing at worst. Some TSD schools have more in common with TKD schools than other TSD schools, and vice versa. It's true that the generalization is that TSD is more traditional martial art, while TKD has become more sport oriented, and that's the packaged answer you'll hear from most people. It's also true, though, that there are plenty of sport oriented TSD schools and traditional TKD schools. It really will all come down to who is standing in front of the class. I firmly believe that all martial arts, when taught correctly, are about the same when taken to their highest levels. It is only the path we take to getting there that differs.

wow..that sucks...I have no personal experience with Furuya one way or another...still think the book is quality reading, though... ...and he was the only one that really impressed me with anything he said on that Discover Channel martial arts special....

Kodo: Ancient Ways by Kensho Furuya Traditions by Dave Lowry Zen in the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams are all books that are also excellent in my opinion, but so far any of the ones listed are great additions. Morgan comes off a little strong to some in Living the Martial Way, and sometimes even comes off looking somewhat egotistical, but overall the good of the book far outweighs anything negative...

I firmly believe that right now there are more than enough styles and systems (probably too many), that anyone who is willing to search a little bit can find the one that is right for them, along with the right instructor (ultimately more important, IMO). I don't necessarily have a problem with very experienced martialartists who create there own system or style, as long as it is based on a firm foundation of true skills, and MANY years of experience...with a legitimate desire to create something useful, and contribute to the well being of others through training. the problem is that all too often, martial artists become disgruntled with their teacher or organization, or come to believe that they aren't learning anything new, or have a badexperience and believe that their art is worthless (not thatt he fault could ever be within tme, not the art).... ..and they goout and create their own sytem that they feel is vastly superior...I know of a second Dan that brokeoff and started his own system, suddenly proclaiming himself a 5th degree master.. ..that just reeks of raw egotism to me. he believed he was better than his current system ranked him as, believed himself to be more knowledgeable than his instructor, and went ahead and promoted himself....that I have issues with.

I wouldn't necessarily put it that way...often everyone will pass abelt test because the instructor doesn't let anyone who isn't ready test to begin with... but you have the basic idea. If everyone is always ALLOWED to test and pass no matter what, if the focus is always more on attaining the belt than on training, if hey are charging for every little thing, including different levels of instruction, if they are guaranteeing black belts in a certain amount of time, etc...there's really no well-defined criteria, but generally it comes down to the focus being more on making money than providing quality instruction.... Now a lot of people get carried away with this accusation. An instructor has every right to charge whatthe market will bear for instruction, cover his expenses, ad make enough to provide for him/herself and family. The problem comes when there are charges for every little thing, and they get progressively more expensive for comparitively little gain...

I actually do tip testing myself...it is an excellent tool. I take the stripes off, rather than put them on, though. It's all in how you spin it, but the kids view getting the tip off as an accomplishment/reward, and strive to learn what is needed to take them off. I do it that way, because it is easier for me to look around at the tips that are still there to know who needs work on what area than it would be to figure out which ones are missing. There are someout there who charge fees for this, but I agree that that is ridiculous. It is actually a way for me to ensure that people don't get charged to test when they aren't ready and could potentially fail.

While there may be a large number of women interested in true kickboxing, I'd say the numbers you see do reflect the cardio kickboxing interest... I've met a number of women who say they take kickboxing or are going to their kickboxing class, when they are really just doing glorified aerobics.... The problem arises when these classes are presented as actual methods of self-defense... Now real kickboxing classes that a disproportionate number of women...I'd still say they owe it to the cardio fad, and that it helped generate an interest in legitimate martial arts... My own class is about 40-50% female students, so in general martial arts is just becoming a more "accepted" practice for everyone...

Think what you want, but breaking actually serves a number of purposes.... If it's the only area you're focusing on, of course that is ridiculous, but the same can be said of anyone who focuses on one thing to the exclusion of everthing else. The whole "no one's just going to stand there and let you hit them" or "boards don't hit back" argument is tiresome... Anyone who practices a legitimate martial arts knows that breaking doesn't make you a better fighter in and of itself...because that isn'tthe point of breaking. Breaking teaches focus (accuracy of delivering a stike to a specific point), speed of technique delivery (without speed, boards won't break, especially when you start stacking them), and penetration. Too often martial arts practitioners get used to pulling their techniques. If you pull your technique when breaking, the boards don't break. All of these things will make you abetter fighter when combined with other aspects of training. And yes, any idiot can be taught to break one board, maybe even multipes if they have the right attiude, but again, that's not the point... Breaking is a tool that helps one along the way, it is not the way itself.... ..Ack Tom, you beat me to it....generally i agree with what you say... if it's too easy, start stacking up more boards

You'd probably be able to find it cheaper with some google searching, but I believe that what you are looking for can be found here: http://www.awma.com/index.cfm/action/displayProducts/level/2|13|11.htm

Most I've ever broken was five with a palm heel strike..never tried more though. I've seen a guy break ten with a palm heel, though... no spacers in either case.

That's a tough question to answer...depends alot on what you mean by 'spiritual'... I would say yes, without a doubt, but others would probably argue no. Again it's something that is going to depend on the instructor, and on you. You really will get out of it what you put into it, physically, mentally, spiritually, and otherwise. Do you know anything at all about the class..what organization it is involved with, etc...