just another view....kickboxing and other pro combat sports have belts also that cost, such as entry fees,travel fees,trainer fees,and etc. fees........win or lose......however there belts are leather with big shiny silver and gold buckles. just a humble opinion _________________ rushman (taekwondo moderator) 3rd dan wtf/kukkiwon florida This Message was edited by: iamrushman on Aug 9, 2001 1:13pm