pvwingchun

Is it possible that more than 5 survived but they get the recognition because of their contributions to martial arts???????????? We will never know. But the truth is wrapped up in the legends somewhere. The Native Americans had an oral history does anyone doubt that? As did many other cultures, is it any less accurate than the written word? What we or anyone writes is clouded by their own biases as well as what we say. We must honor our ancestors by remembering and repeating what they said but we must also seek out the truth. But we should be skeptical of groups that claim to have researched and are reporting the history now. Is it any more or less accurate than the oral history we have been given. I would like to hear from more of you.

Explain better. The basics for JKD come from WC. There are many tales as to why JKD was invented. It is kind of like the history thread. One group says one thing one another.

Actually I am in the process of researching this exact question at this time. To this point cursory information says it was common for women to hold high positions. The Abbess was the head of the "female order." At this time what I have read suggests that the temples were "basically like a university" a place for higher learning, they weren't just for buddhist monks. The more, what we may call liberal arts, were also taught to balance the martial teachings. Keeping inline with the balance of the yin yang theories and buddhist philosophy. When I know more I will report it. If anyone can shed some light on the subject it would be appreciated.

from the ground up I am trying to get all history into this thread that is why I anwered here. You ask in another thread, "When were there nuns in the temple?" My research says they have been there, I am trying to for a more definitive answer from someone who actually studies the history of the temple but with summer here it is hard to find people and my resources are limited, I may venture into the library at ASU later today to do a little research if I get chance while I am in Phoenix today. But a cursory internet search suggests that women have been present in temple. There is enough info out there to suggest this to be true.

Since there seems to be a group in here that may like to debate the history have at it. Explain what you believe and why. Any references or dcumentation you can cite to back up your claims would be a big plus. Even within the various lineages there is debate, was it a fox and a crane or a snake and a crane. I will start us out by saying that: Wing Chun history is clouded in mystery and legend. I believe that the truth is in the legends, although I believe it to be wrapped up in between and is probably a mixture of more than one legend. Did Ng Mui exist and was she actually a Ming Princess sent to the temple for protection? What role did Jee Shim play? Was Yim Wing Chun a historical figure and was the name changed to protect the innocent either purposely or accidently? What role did the opera boats play? Did the Southern Temple actually exist? Was Wing Chun actually developed in the village of Yong Chun (Mandarin for Wing Chun)? Did Leung Jan recieve more than one system of Wing Chun? I could go on but this should get you all started.

All of Wing Chun history is clouded in mystery and legend. Even those who are known to exist, Cheung Ng for example, their contributions to the development are nothing more than any of the rest of it simply legend. Until around the time of Leung Jan little is truly known about the development of the art and even from that time forward the truth is not known, but there is a pretty good idea. What is widely held to be believed at this point in time is that Wing Chun "was developed in the temple" during a time when the monks realized that the classical styles of Shaolin took to long to train in. They needed a style that was quick to learn, efficient and would work in the streets and alleys of the time, which were narrow, therefore the close in fighting style. They took what they considered the best of current styles and began to develope a system. Some of this shows in the similarity to other styles. It is also believed by some that the system was incomplete and refined at a later date. It is true that Wing Chun flourished on the Opera Boats which became a place that those in the rebellions and secret societies hid due to the nature of the operas and the hiding of martial systmes in the performances. And it is likely that Wing Chun footwork further developed at this time. As for the temples there is some historical evidence that both the north and the south temple existed. Some claim the southern temple never existed and was simply a ploy to throw off a government searching for it. Although recent archeological digs claim to have found the site, which some claim is not the true temple. As for Cheung Ng, also known as Tan Sao Ng, he is known to have existed but any ties to Wing Chun are speculative at best. But there are accounts that even he learned of a new style taught to him by monks who had developed a new style in the temple.

Every history that I am aware of points to developement in the Temple even those that dispute the Ng Mui legend..... I am aware of the "legend" of Cheung Ng. There is historical documentation to prove that he exists but beyond that his contributions to Wing Chun are only speculation contrary to popular belief. It is believed that his largest contributions were to rebellious activities associated with the Red Junk Operas. The biggest problem with the Opera Boat history is that people frequently changed their names to protect the true identities therefore much of what is known cannot be trusted. Even Cheung Ng also known as Tan Sao Ng is said to have learned his Wing Chun from monks in the Temple in some histories (and I have literally read dozens if not hundreds) but it is pure speculation. All historical accounts that I am aware of tie the development of Wing Chun to the Temple in one form or another whether it is the "Five Elders" or other histories that are floating around out there. If you know of histories that do not tie developement tot he Temple I would like to read it. As I said the exact history is unclear but it is believed that Leung Jan received the system that he taught as Wing Chun was relatively complete from Leung Yee Tai when he received it. My comment about learning more about the history of Wing Chun was directed at all on the board. Unfortunately we will never know the true history of Wing Chun as those who know it have since passed into history.

Sorry. I am kind of like my Wing Chun, direct. Plus I thought it was an honest question. We could pick one movement and name the applications for it but even that would be quite a task as each movement can have dozens of uses depending on the situation and the principle behind the application.... Now take a pak for example I would say that executed properly it is a block and a strike at the exact same moment as long as it is executed with power. But I do understand where you are coming from.

Every strike is a block and every block is a strike.

When doing demos we always take someone big and strong and thinks they have a good strong punch out of the audience and let them hit us (using a focus pad or chest protector of cousre). They can usually hit pretty good. But then we take them aside for 5 minutes and introduse them to proper bone alignment and how to use the body, we then bring them back to punch again and the increase in power is amazing. The straight punch when used properly is much more powerful than the hook or roundhouse. As you progress through the Chum Kiu and learn how to use shifting power the straight punch becomes even more powerful. When reaching the Biu Gee you learn about the powers of Biu Gee and how to use that in applying it to the punch and the punch becomes even more powerful and strong.

Wing Chun is not a "new system". As an art it was developed in the Shaolin Temple over 300 years ago. The monks realized they needed a fighting system that could be learned quickly, was simple and effective. Systems that were currently being taught took many years to learn, hence the developement of Wing Chun. The exact histroy is unclear, but if you want to learn more do an internet search on "Wing Chun History" and you can learn the various perspectives of the lineages and families.

The principle is small bones, small target. So you use the fingers on small targets like the eyes or the soft part of the throat. You would not want to use your fingers on the skull where you would hurt them. When you get to the Biu Gee you will understand more.