pvwingchun

I personally would be very leery of any WC instructor who would take and teach you just Chi Sau. You simply cannot take WC Chi Sau and add it into another system and call it WC Chi Sau. At that point it simply becomes a drill in sticking and sensitivity which many arts have why not just go to one of them because you won't gain insightful knowledge of WC Chi Sau if all you care to learn is chi sau. To properly understand and train WC Chi Sau you must first have the knolwedge of the principles of WC if you do not then you do not know or understand what it is that chi sau is teaching.

BTW a good WC instructor will never say to you "that's not how WC does it." He will teach the forms and the principles and guide you along, teaching you what a WC combat response would be teaching you to meld the two into the proper response. I frequently have students show me things they have learned and I tell them how it either does or doesn't fit WC principle.

Why do you want to learn chi sau is the first question ot ask? Why not learn Wing Chun then the Chi Sau will make sense to you. So many people want to take bits and pieces of WC and put it into their sysem doing so compromises the understanding of what you are taking and adding. As I said learning chi sau without the proper foundation is not chi sau. Without understanding what it is for and the principles behind it you aren't learning chi sau. To many people believe that chi sau skills convert to combat skills and they don't. Again chis sau is not combat no one is ever going to step into that range and start a fight by rolling with you.

You can't learn just Chi Sau. First ask your self why do you want to learn Chi Sau? Chi Sau is simply a drill, one spoke in the wheel. Too mnay people think that Chi Sau is the end all and that is what everyone wants to learn. Unfortunately great Chi Sau doesn't equal great fighting skills.....although there is much to learn from it to just learn Chi Sau without the foundation is simply not a good idea.....

I teach my students QiGung and encourage them to practice on their own. I am not teaching them QiGung per se but it is part of the curriculum I am teaching them Wing Chun so I want to spend their class time doing just that. They can "meditate" on their own and at the time that is best for them.

IMO belts mean nothing except to those who hold it. We don't do belts. The problem is som many places are just belt factories anymore it is hard to judge. As for the bad mouthing of other clubs and schools I simply will not tolerate it from my students and should I get wind of it then it is grounds for dismissal. Healthy debate and discussing the differences are one thing but to talk bad about another style is not in my rules and is not tolerated......

DM That is exactly how I train my students. I want them to be effective defending themselves as quick as possible. Start with a few tools and build on it. Teaching only private lessons allows me to train each student to their personal need while still teaching the art and the self defense aspect of it. It can be done but you have to emphasis the fighting and self defense aspects of the art. You are right most average WC schools probably don't teach it that way, at least in my opinion and from experience. I have an ex cop training with me now who recently told me that she learned more about self defense in the first few weeks then she did all the time she was an officer. Any art can be effective for Self defense if taught in that manner. Although some are inherently better than others because of the nature of them. But so much of it is in the instruction.

Wing Chun. Easy to learn, very direct and very effective. The forms teach you to cover all ranges of fighting and it doesn't tie you up in predictable sequences (Sorry simpso1j no kata's here just the form). You learn the techniques and you learn the principles and you make it yours, that is you utilize what is taught in a fashion that works for you not what works for someone else. At least that is how I teach it. But be wary because anything can be watered down and taught in a fashion that preaches self defense but doesn't teach it.

You are right there is no static moment in time in any fight it is a flow through your ranges but you still need to be able to use the proper weapon at the proper distance.

OK are there or aren't there different ranges? First you said there wasn't now you agree with me?? The confrontation only happens at conversation distance if we let it, of course there might be that instance where you make a mistake. I train my students to dictate the situation not the other way around. But if something goes wrong and it starts there they deal with it. WC is very multi faceted and I let them explore all angles of attack and defense and never limit them to just conversation distance because this is where most things happen. Certainly we are a close range art but not everything happens there that would be foolish to think and only train for.

True many are short but I have seen just as many fights go on for much longer than that. Where do the statisitcs come from? The ranges exist whether you use them or not. I will dictate the situation and put you into the range I want to so I can utilize whatever weapon I dictate. With my WC it is about dictating the fight and not letting you fight yours. Again you can't hit me with a punch from kicking range unless you have freakishly long arms so there is a difference especially in a confrontation. Because if I get even the slightest hint you are a kicker I either stay out of that range or get inside and render the kick ineffective. If as you say someone lunges at me from 6 feet and I throw an elbow when I am in a punching range it would just look ridiculus and open me up. And if I go to use a palm strike that should have been a fist I miss and you don't take the blow as intended so in our training we actually train the ranges and we train it at speed hard and fast so it becomes natural. I better know the ranges whether they come into play or not.

To say there is a fighting and a non-fighting range is an oversimplification. As I said kicking range is not punching range, get in a little closer and punching range is not palm range. But you are right there is fighting range and non-fighting range I just choose to break it down a little more and learn or teach to apply the proper weapon to the proper range.

For starters just saying that GM Ip Man was a master and taught Bruce Lee and he was good doesn't mean anything. BRuce Lee was great because of his training not the art. as stated it all comes down to personal desire and determination, how hard you train to become effective. No WC doesn't translate well to the ring or competition it is a self defense art, at least as I train it and thats how I train my students. I don't train them to point spar or dance around a ring, I train them to go home to their families at night should the need arise. Much of WC in based on differing fighting ranges, yes IMO there are Karate and Muay Thai ranges. Specifically to me that would be a kicking range I train to get into my range where I can effectively use WC and not fight someone elses fight on their grounds so in essence I am fighting in WC range. Yes there is a kicking range, a punching range and a trapping and groundfighting range you just have to train to use them. There are a few more but I won't bore you with the details. You see if I can kick you I can't punch you I am out of that range. It certainly doesn't mean I won't use a WC kick to close the gap and make my bridge. WC-Strayder said it best "Wing chun is as complete as any other style out there, both in short and long range." The key is learning to use at all ranges to make it effective against a kicker find a kicker and train against him put the principles to work for you, to fight on the ground find a wrestler or a good groundfigter and get down there and roll around finding what does and doesn't work utilizoing your principles. The key is to explore.

It doesn't even sound like Wing Chun to me I would be leery of what the hype is. Once you mix WC with something else it is no longer WC.

Exactly so get down on the ground practice with WC you don't need to adopt BJJ becuase the principles of groundfighting are there you just have to practice it. Most WC people ignore it but through careful exploration and practice you can find what is needed.

You don't need to add anything to your WC it is already there. The biggest difference is your root to the ground is very different. Get down on the ground with WC principles in hand and explore. Think of your techniques in terms of principles as well. You may be amazed at what you find.

Very risky move. I have trained this and it is hard in a controlled situation, now try it with someone moving, the adrenaline flowing and the attacker moving the knife hand around. Remember if a knife is shown plan on getting cut.

First and foremost the "legend" of Ng Mui and Wing Chun is just that a legend. Until the mid 1800's there is no hard of eveidence of the founders only myth and speculation. Most of the time lines don't make sense for starters. There are many stories out there as to who and how it developed. Chances are there were many players in the developement of WC accounting for the various lineages all having their own view of history. I just read a very interesting article last nite by Hendrick Santo, Rene Ritchie and Robert Chu that put a whole new spin on the origins that was much more historically based than anything I have seen to date. It tied the revolutionary activities of the mid 1800's and the Red Junk Period together quite well. As for you sensei saying that WC comes from gojo ryu that is a new one on me. I would have to dispute that vigorously. And yes there is some speculation that Ip Man either embellished or made up the history. Early in life he supposedly told a different story than later in life. It has even been suggested that the history is credited to someone he told to make up the story that he didn't feel like recounting what he knew?????????. All of this is pure speculation and adds to the lure and mystique of WC.

Sorry this is a little late guys but it is not to late to let Sifu Don know you will be attending......

2nd Annual Arizona Wing Chun Gathering Sifu Don Grose of the Tucson Ving Tsun Academy has asked me to help promote the 2nd Annual Arizona Wing Chun Gathering. It will be held on Oct. 16th 2004, from 10am to 2pm in Scottsdale. Sifu Don Grose has asked that those who wish to attend to please R.S.V.P. by Oct 1st. He can be reached via e-mail at dgrose@comcast.net . Hope to see you there!

I couldn't agree with this more...... The wooden dummy is more than just something to beat on. See this article on the "Mook Yan Jong" https://www.wing-chun.us/mookyanjongorwoodenman.htm

The "traditional" triangular footwork. You may not consider yourself very good but you are knowledgeable in the art. It sounds as if you are now on a path of self discovery which is what WC should be about after a certain length of time in the art. Once you have the techniques down it is up to you to adapth them and apply the principles in a manner that works for you.

I personally think you have plenty of confidence from what you speak about and the knowledge you seem to possess. This is a concept very radical to many and many will decry it as non-WC since it doesn't make absolute use of cutting angle footwork but it is there in the system (weapons) and most of all it doesn't break principle. It is something I have only recently adopted for empty hand work and began to use after I began training with someone else. Trust me it makes much more sense especially for someone your size. It allows you to get to the outside and flank your opponent totally taking his balance and center.

but like i said, i've only ever done this in poon sau. you kinda need both hands in contact to get it 'structurally' right. the odd thing is, you have to make your structure 'bad' for a moment as you move into the new position when structure is correct again (i.e shift hips, step). As I said it is all in the feet. You don't have to compromise anything or shift into a weaker position even for a split second as you move to a new postion. You can present a false center to your opponent either in or out of contact. It is hard to explain and very hard to do using cutting angle footwork that is why you have to switch to moving on a circle around your opponent. and the false centre only exists as you are moving to your new position. as you step, the idea is that you partner still only feels forward pressure on him when in fact you are applying pressure from an angle. You can maintain this false center at all times. It has to do with changing the angle of the triangle you are working with or elongating it. the fact that you've changed angles means that when you apply 'correct' pressure, you instantly have control of his centre and he has to play catch-up. Again you can do this at all times not just moving and making him catch up.

Very interesting I have only heard a few people use the term percieved or false center. What you present to them is what looks like the center but what is really happening is you have theirs and they think they have yours. I wasn't sure what you menat or where you were going, you never know with a keyboard between you. You are obviously learning or have discovered something on your own that isn't normally taught, at least in my experience.