pvwingchun

yes I have

If that is the part you are talking about then it is bong sau. This sounds totally different from how we do it, but in the portion before the lop it is definitely a bong sau.

I am trying to find out where in the form you are talking about there is no reason to be defensive. There are numerous different ways of performing the dummy and several moves in the form can be misinterpretted. In chapter 6 we use gum saus, and in Chapter 7 we use low bong sau just before the lop. I believe that is the portion you are talking about.

They must have met a minimum time requirement, then forms (all of them depending on where they are), applications to the moves of the form (all of them), history, terminology, principles and how to apply them and to which parts of the form they apply, must be good citizens and have good attendance. We also have drills that go aloong with each section of each form and they must be able to demostrate or perform with you each of them proficiently.

Drunken Monkey if I follow you this would be near the end of the form??? At least the way we do it. It can be difficult because every lineage has variations in the form and the lengths vary also as well as the order in which they are put together. There is a chapter that uses gum saus. But the way we do it, it is with a low bong sau, so it would be like using a bong sau on a low punch. I am from the Ip Ching family.

I would say 6 months is fast. But the way we train we get people up to speed as quickly as possible. You can train them to begin to use the form for defense in as little as 3 to 4 months if it is done right. And it can be done without taking away from the Wing Chun. You begin teaching applications very early on. It is not a diffcult thing to do if the intent is there and the guidance is recieved from a good Sifu. There are schools that as you said, "spending a hell of a lot of time just punching, turning stance, stepping and switching hands", working basics. I believe it is possible and in my experience it is possible to bring students along that quickly, as I said to defend oneself but the nuances take a lifetime. Keep in mind there is a certain amount of dedication involved init though.

What do you mean? You can become proficient in WC in a very short amount of time, at least being able to defend yourself.....with a little dedication. Wing Chun was developed to be learned in a short time. It can take years to learn all the nuances of WC but to be able to use it thatcan be done relatively quick.

Pressure points are only useless if you don't know how to use them. But as said that knowledge comes with time.

Depends on the aim of the individual. But if it is self defense I would suggest the art developed and made famous by a women, Wing Chun. Althought I am a litlle biased it is great for self defense.

Yoshie, good rule never kicking above waist. There is no balance and where there is no balance there is no power, plus you can never be sure of your footing in the street, on the mat is a different story. Two more rules or "principles" to remember concering your hands. Small bones to small target. Hard on soft, which means never use your knuckles on any hard surface of the head. I have known several who have broken their hands on the first shot and no the fight wasn't over yet. I prefer the palm, as in Wing Chun soft palm to just about any part of the body, it can be very effective. But it really can cause damage to the ribs and can really rattle the teeth if it is used on the head.

After several years in Wing Chun I began to study Tai Chi. While it has enhanced my Wing Chun i would not recommend it for the beginner. Advance in one system before learning another. If the styles are close then you could have a problem separating the two and become confused. I have a very close realationship with my Sifu and cleared it through him before I began to study Tai Chi. We agreed that if any problems arose, that either one of us detected, I would drop the Tai Chi and concentrate solely on Wing chun since I maintain that as my "mother" art. One thing said it the styles compliment each other then one may make the other stronger. Although the opposite could happen I believe it is an individual thing. We ahve students who in no way shape or form could handle two arts at once, they can't even understand the one.

Vyvial Very interesting. do you have any experience with the Hung Fa yi Wing Chun folks. There style is very similar to William Cheungs Traditional Wing Chun. As for me I am of the Ip Ching lineage. I recently had the opprotunity to spend an evening with some students of Augustine Fong and Randy William's, while there were similarities there were also differences throughout in the forms and the way the energy was used. How about you from the ground up. What is your lineage and what do you see as your particular differences.

This is why we don't do tournaments and we discourage our students from doing them. One event like this can ruin a young kids self esteem and all he has worked for. If a judge doesn't like your haircut your out. The rules often favor a certain style or even to that point certain groups and if you don't have the rules in advance you can't train appropriately.

massa Don't dispair there is a lot of trashing going on in the Wing Chun world. Don't worry about those videos either, I am sure if you look hard enough you could find some with the opposite results. Who knows how good those guys were, plus they may tell you they are good when they are not. Give it a few months before you give it up. Give yourself a chance to learn a little before quitting. I was working with a student the other day who told me his head was going to explode because of all the info he was getting, I told him he has to look at it as a progression, that he needs to remember how much he knows compared to the average joe on the street. Sho-Ju That is surprising to me. As from the ground up stated I would like to hear more. Just knowing the forms is not enough you need to know how to apply them. While I have never sparred full contact karate I have sparred with some TKD guys and it was easy to neutralize them and make their kicks ineffective.

I can see both sides of the story, mastering one art, or adding something to make you more rounded. I have been training in Wing Chun for several years and believe in mastering the system, any system, it is my "personal fighting' art, the one one I train to rely on in a confrontation. But I recently began to train Tai Chi with the distinct purpose of learning it as a health exercise so that I could teach it where I train as a way of opening up another market segment. The benefit I have gotten from it has been incredible, it has helped my Wing Chun in ways I would have never dreamed. Not that it has made my Wng Chun more complete but it has opened my eyes to a different way of looking at things. Tai Chi and Wing Chun are actually very similar in some ways and that is what has helped. While I personally cannot stand the martail arts "mut" who has done dozens of styles and is always comparing one to another or claiming that in "art a" we wouild do it this way or that won't work because in "such and such art" we would do this. I find nothing wrong with broadening your horizons a little you never know what you might learn.

I believe it comes from the NAPMA program.

I personally don't buy the whole hidden argument. Speaking from a personal point of view as someone who has recently begun to learn Tai Chi after several years of Wing Chun training. I can see and and know what the applications and techniques are without them being expalined to me. So someone who has studied a similar karate styles should be able to do the same thing. Someone with no knowledge of the art on the other hand is in a different boat. As one of my kung fu uncles is fond of saying, the body only has two arms and two legs which limits the possibilities on how to punch and kick. With that said it seems to me that it would be easy to determine the "hidden" techniques within the kata's. With a good foundation in Siu Lim Tao and Chum Kiu students learning the Biu Gee form of Wing Chun can apply and figure out most techniques on their own with minimal guidance at this point. Sounds to me more like has been mentioned and I see frequently advertised, "Come train with us and learn the secret hidden techniques not shown to outsiders." Of which all arts are guilty.

MuayThai Fighter I don't know what your experience in the martial arts is but it is obviously been seriously lacking in good instruction or you would not have the views you do. Either that or you have been brainwashed into your thinking and I have met people with your attitude and when they come to the kwoon to "try out" they are the first ones to "tap out" so to speak when they are put in a situation on the floor where they have to back up what they are saying. I train in both Wing Chun and have recently took up Tai Chi. And I can tell you that for every move there is an application to the movement. Since I have trained in WC much longer I can tell you there is no wasted movement, everything we do has a purpose. The WC forms are a set of tools or answers we use to apply in certain situations and since every situation is different there is a different answer for each situation and each individual can apply whatever he is most comfortable with in any given situation.

Tai Chi is more than just forms and a competent instructor will know the martial applications to the movement but they must be practiced as such. Most Tai Chi today is practiced for health but anyone who has studied other Chinese arts will see many similarites in the moves and techniques. I am constantly amazed at how similar tsome of the movements and techniques are to Wing Chun.

As a Wing Chun practitioner I may be a littel biased, but Wing Chun is extremely effective as a self defense art. It is not difficult to learn. I beleive the difficulty lies in the application of the techniques. We have no set pattern of flow in our techniques therefore it is up to you to determine how to use what you have learned. It can be a difficult task to figure out what works for you in any given situation. The techniques can be learned rather quickly and you can be proficient in protecting yourself in a relatively short time. As a practical question ask yourself if you can step back and kick someone in a crowded bar or restaraunt if you or accosted there. What about outside on a sidewalk with some sand or gravel on it. Do you live where there is snow or ice. Will you be able to keep your balance in these situations and execute kicks?

I would have to disagree with the last post on the applications point of view at least from the way it is taught where I train. We teach the applications to the moves and they are very straight forward and easy to comprehend. It is a very easy to comprehend art and the principles guide the practitoner. We like to say that Wing Chun is very easy but at the same time very hard because it is up to you to determine how to use what you have learned. As for Sifu Redmond he is very well respected in the art of Traditional Wing Chun.

Don't have to be an instructor toreply would like to know how students feel also.

How many of you out there have a handbook that you give to students. What is in it? Is the curriculum in a book like a training manual? How is it accepted? Is it something that is given out at registration oris it optional?

Who are you to say what another school should charge. There are so many factors that go in to it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the school being a school of a traditional art or an mma. It has everything to do with where you are located, the city or town, population, the clientele and what they can afford. And literally dozens of other factors. What if the MMA school teaches absolute garbage and the instructors themselves have only been training for a year or two, then is it still worth $100.00? And what if the self defense they teach is no good? Cost is relative to what the individual feels it is worth. Cost of my training. Priceless.

What does that have to do with anything. Cost is relative to several factors. I beleive that the heart of the matter is if you ara or were uncomfortable you need to find another school.