MatsuShinshii

Yes. Some instructors (especially foreign) speak relatively little English so learning from them would be very difficult if the lingual basics are not known.

I wish her the best and pray for a speedy recovery.

Lack of Drive. Lack of Discipline. Lack of Respect. Entitlement Mentality. That's it in a nut shell. This is not to say that some where not like this when I started. But there a lot more examples and is more prevalent, and unfortunately I would say more accepted today.

I agree with your statements. Every art or sport has it's traditions. Those that play baseball in other countries have adopted these traditions. We have adopted the traditions of the arts that we study. This is part and parcel due to the fact that we did not invent these arts and the traditions go hand and hand with learning the art for the most part. I also agree with others that some traditions such as bowing have been taken to the n'th degree and are an abomination and over exaggeration of the true intent. This again is mostly due to a misunderstanding of what the traditions mean, when, why and how they are used. With anything overkill can become an issue especially when it is used to control those under you. Everything can be skewed and in this become something that should be controlled and moderated. However that does not mean that a tradition, even though from another culture, needs to be discarded because it did not come from the west. Having knowledge of the traditions dispels and removes the abuses and ignorance surrounding them. They are there for a reason. However if you do not understand the reason it is easy to judge them as foreign and not worthy of following. The decision is up to the student of whether they want to study that art and follow the arts traditions or find another art. I think this is the real key. Not to get political but this is one of the problems with society today. If one person or a small portion of people object because of ignorance then it's deemed as worthless and should be removed. It really boils down to ignorance. Learn the traditions and cultural reasons behind them and then make a decision of yourself. No one can force you to do anything that you do not wish to do as we are free to make up our own minds. If you inform yourself and still disagree then leave the art and find something else. It's really that simple. But the answer is not to change the way an art has been taught for centuries. In stead of trying to mold everything to fit into what a few think is right leave and find another art. Popular or not, the arts were invented long before any of us were born and they have been taught the same way ever since. What makes one or two peoples opinions right over centuries of studying things the same way? Ignorance! Pure and simple.

No I do not consider ourselves progressive at all. As I have been taught this is exactly the way the my Shinshii was taught and his before him. I am not saying ask or question your instructor on the floor, in fact the direct opposite. We are allotted time for questions after class has ended. Personally I would not be much of an instructor ("Teacher") if I did not answer questions. This would make me a dictator. I understand reasons for not allowing dissension in the ranks but I do not view asking question, whether white belt or black belt, as dissension but as a natural means of learning. IMHO if you do not allow your students to question the why's of the art they are learning so they can understand then you are not teaching the art but dictating the art. How is one to learn? When do they finally get the answers, when they become Yudansha? This is in my mind a fabrication of those not wanting their breadth of knowledge or lack there of to be discovered. In large part I feel this started due to the fact that many that brought the arts to the US where not even true BB's or were just Shodan and did not understand everything themselves. To me there is nothing wrong with saying you don't know. I have, many times over the years came across questions I did not have the answers for nor did I ever think to ask the question in the first place. I find no dishonor or strike to my pride by saying I don't know but I'll find out and then ask the question of my Shinshii. This is part in parcel how we learn and get better. Most of what I know I learned or picked up directly in the Dojo. However with the advent of the internet the learning curve has been lessened immensely. If certain commands are used look them up and find out what they mean. I don't think I have ever been to a new school that did not have a student manual that gave the words used and the definitions/meanings of those words. If not start your own. And again you are not challenging your instructor. To ask a question that you honestly do not know and have a genuine interest in is not a challenge to their authority. If they feel this way maybe it's time for you to find a better class of instructors. It would be different if you told your instructor that they didn't know what they were talking about. Asking a question is what students do. I would have walked out of class looking for a new school after the first week if I was told to just accept everything. Analytical thinking should be encouraged not quelled. A thinking student is a better student. If nothing else you know they are actually interested and invested in the art. This is the point. Why teach a bunch of robots? You want that interest and excitement to grow in your students not be halted. Call me progressive or what ever you want but I would rather a student ask so I know they understand than to just go through the motions. Students are a reflection of their teachers. It's not a very good reflection on me if my students tell layman "I don't know" or "because my instructor told me to". Students are the arts future. A knowledgeable student is a better future instructor and carrier of the torch than one that is uninformed. Just another 2 cents worth of my opinion for what it's worth.

As I stated there are many reason for and for not teaching applications. The overwhelming reason today is that the vast majority of instructors have not been taught them so they can not pass them down. Is this due to their instructors not knowing them or is it because they chose to not teach them? No one will ever know.

Depends on your instructor, your art and your interpretation of the art and how it was passed to you.

Some instructors did not teach the applications and others would not teach them until a student was awarded Yudansha. This was for a multitude of reasons, for which I've heard plenty. We teach along with the kata. Hachikyu start learning Pinan Shodan, and immediately learn the applications and are taught two person drills so they can apply what they've learned. To each their own. I feel that teaching the applications while learning the Kata gives the student a deeper understanding.

How much time is left to train outside of class when 2-4 hours are spent training in class everyday. Add work and other responsibilities to the mix. But I agree with your point. When were you taught your first kata? Was it pretty much immediately, or was it after you had been there for some time? First day along with applications. The primary teaching tool is Kata.

Efficiency = Maximum damage with the least amount of effort or damage to you. Okinawan Toudi 101. The least amount of effort (or moves) to effect a singular goal (end the fight).

With all due respect I must disagree with you that all MA's are this way. During class you are correct. Do what the instructor says. After class we have a question/answer exchange in which the students are able to ask any question and to question anything that was taught. The reason you do not question the instructor during the class is as simple as it takes to much time away from training, it's a distraction and it's not respectful. However there is nothing wrong with asking, "why are we doing this" or "why is it done this way", etc. fill in the blanks. If an instructor is not willing to teach, meaning showing the technique/ application and then be willing to explain and even answer, then I would leave that school. Because I said so does not work in combative arts. The student must have an understanding of what they are learning and why they are learning it. If not, how do you know it works? So no, we are not all alike. This is sad. We utilize the language to teach because my Shinshii's teacher was Okinawan and could only say a few words in English so he taught the way his instructor taught him. Not to be cool but because this was the way he was taught. As a Hachidan I knew what the Kanji said, I knew what the words meant (or at least represented) and could to some degree utilize that language in class. Over years it is picked up and you begin to understand more and more of the language. I must confess I am my Shinshii's student and as such teach using the Japanese or Uchinaaguchi (Hogan) languages. Since the art is not American and was taught to me in this way I carry on those traditions because to be honest we don't have words to properly describe some of the Hogan words. Having said this, all too often this is not the case and the language is used without understanding and your master instructor might understand the writings but all too many don't. If you do not speak or at least understand the words don't use them. If you can not pick up your arts grade certification and read what is on it, you shouldn't be using it. A short story. Years ago I had a student ask to train. I interviewed him and one of my questions is if they have had past experience. He said yes and produced a grade certification that said nothing about martial arts whatsoever. In fact it said nothing coherent. It was just words and some where not even words but made up jibberish. When I asked for his instructors information and called him, I was told that he used the same cert's that he was given by his instructor (of course some mystical person that could not be contacted because he lives in the mountains of Japan and has no phone or address). The bottom line is, many use this to hide their fraud. Others use it because it's tradition even though they have no idea what it says. If you do not know what the Kanji on your Gi says you should ask. There are no stupid questions, only stupid students for not asking them, or stupid instructors for not answering them. A student should be encouraged to ask questions. This is how we all learn. If an instructor says you can't ask questions, you should ask where the door is because you should be using it to leave. An honest instructor is not afraid of questions. He may not answer them until you have a better understanding of the art but they should answer them. If not they are hiding something. If a student blindly follows instruction without question this is a cult not a Dojo. Those that are afraid of being questioned have huge ego's and little knowledge. Think about it.

Most of what you have as a class schedule we do not do. We do bow into the dojo and to the founders and to the instructor and off the floor when we leave. I'm not sure if I would categorize this as pageantry or as tradition or as just plane old respect or a sign of common courtesy. These are not American traditions this is true. However the art is not American either but we study it. I know where you are coming from but IMHO I find nothing wrong with showing respect to the art, it's founders or the instructor if you truly respect them. As far as ceremonies go, 100% agree. It's down right sickening how much bowing goes on just for the mere sake of bowing. I agree this makes me sick as well and I refuse to join in to the cult of bobble heads. In fact I will go so far as to stop students and other instructors alike and ask them why they are bowing. If you don't know why then stop doing it. The real problem is that most do not understand why they are bowing and when they should or should not be bowing. This over bowing comes from the Japanization of the art. Showing respect to the art. the founders and to the instructor for passing on the knowledge is in my book worthy of a bow. All the rest of it, bowing to everyone as they pass you, to guests that don't even understand the meaning of it , and at the beginning and end of every exercise is a clear misunderstanding of the practice. Oh and once bowed to it is not necessary to do it again and again. Once will suffice. I like you can not understand the reasoning behind bowing every time a student asks a question or an instructor gives instruction. Once is enough. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

I get it. Funny, sad and true all at the same time.

To the bold - 1000% agree! Well said and absolutely true. To the underlined - Again I could not have said it better. This is absolutely true. Solid points!

What was passed down to me through instructors and what I have researched is somewhat similar. Years of training in one Kata before being allowed to learn the next. Endless drills both singular and partner for years on the applications of the Kata. A greater emphasis was put on conditioning and the way you condition as opposed to today's training methods. A typical class was 2 to 4 hours and was everyday instead of 1.5 to 2 hrs 2 to 3 days a week. They did not utilize what is referred to as Kihon then. Instead they utilized partner drills. The emphasis was Kata and the applications of the Kata and conditioning. What is referred to as Kihon was what the student did independent of class time. Imagine that... students training outside of class. [sarcasm] Couldn't help myself.

It's supposed to but that doesn't mean that it does. Yes and no. Depends on the instructor, school, organization. The belt (whatever color) should represent that knowledge and skill level of the grade it represents. I have never appreciated the rainbow system of belts but really can't stand the tags, stripes, hashes and bars that are used to break down each grade even more. This is about money pure and simple. I see no need for the multitude of belts. White and black are plenty in my mind. It's gotten so bad that there are now different shades of color and I even saw a camouflage belt. Really? Worse, then you get into stripes, tags, split colors, etc. etc. Just how many Kyu grades are there? We have 8 and I know some have 10. So where do all these colors fit in when you can see grade charts with up to 20 colors or combinations of colors. This I think is a scam and all about money. Well Johnny you now get to test for your fifth stripe on that white belt, that'll be another $30.00. It's criminal.

In the kyokushin dojo I train at, we do light contact 99% of the time. Makes sense to train that way for a few reasons: Minimizes risk of injuries Allows one to experiment without the concern (fear?) of getting hurt Kicks to the head are OK and light head contact is also OK. Just enough to remind one to keep the hands up. Had a session outside the dojo a few months ago that included kumite with folks from various dojos. Despite being told to keep it light, some either forgot or couldn't do it properly. Unfortunately I'm still recovering from a bruised/broken rib as a result of a well executed but full contact hiza mawashi geri. When sparring out of the dojo and the rules and respect go out the widow; consider it as if walking out in to the real world.Self Defense rule 101: Protect yourself %100, %100 of the time, even more so when the word "friendly" is used to entice you in to a fight. You just have no idea what is going on in your opponent's head, perhaps he accidentally run over his favorite hunting dog, while in a rush to have a friendly bout with you! This was not a tournament or real life situation...it was a structured activity with fellow Kyokushin karateka from different dojos. Should I have avoided the hit? Sure, but in a LEARNING environment is it really appropriate to clock your opponent with a full contact hit? Depends on grade and skill level. If it is a friendly exchange or practice and it was stated that contact would be light then no it would not be appropriate. Having said that we are studying a combative art and should defend ourselves at all times. Accidents happen. Misunderstandings happen. He could have thought that he telegraphed his strike and that you would be able to dodge it. He may not have thought that he put that much power into the strike. Etc. etc. Now if he gloated afterwards and understand his true intentions then yes it is inappropriate and you may even be justified in being a little inappropriate yourself. Some students will attempt to hurt to establish a sort of pecking order of dominance. If you turn this around you often find the problem takes care of itself and they loose the macho attitude and are more amenable to training with you instead of trying to dominate you. Either way defend yourself at all times because you can not know the intentions of a new opponent until you have mixed it up with them.

I bow at the dojo door, to the instructor, and to the founders. Too often people think this is belittling or find it offensive but it's merely a way to extend respect and courtesy. I appreciate that respect is earned however I feel respect is given until you prove it is unwarranted. There is nothing wrong with giving others a modicum of respect until they prove they are unworthy of it. In a new Dojo I observe the following; Bowing at the door is nothing more than showing courtesy to a new group and instructor. This is not a belittling action but merely a show of thanks for allowing you to participate. Bowing to an instructor you do not know is extending a slight sign of respect or appreciation for allowing you to participate in his/her class. Again until proved unworthy. Bowing to the founder(s) is in my mind the right action and should be heart felt. These are the people that made it possible for you to learn the art in the first place. My utmost respect is given to the founder. In my Shinshii's Dojo I bow at the door, to him and to the founders and it is all about showing respect. Respect for years of passing on knowledge to me and to others selflessly for no other reason but to pass on the art. For this I definitely show the utmost respect and feel it and have never felt belittled by doing so. It is definitely warranted.

Yes I guess you could demote based on inappropriate behavior. However the facts are the facts. If you have earned something you have it whether it's on paper or around your waste. You can not take away knowledge or the skill that has been attained so I see little effect in removing grade. If your going to go to that extent it would be better to just kick them out of class. On the opposite side, if you have not earned something it doesn't matter what is on paper or around your waste you are not that grade, period! You are nothing more than a paper tiger. And the difference between the military and the Dojo is one very important factor, you go home to your family at the end of class and never have to return if you do not wish to and nothing will happen to you. I get that because of some schools training methods you might liken it to the military but trust me it's nothing like it.

Although you are most likely right I can not think of a worse reason to give grade. You either have earned it or you haven't. Not having enough of a certain grade is no reason to promote.

Congrats! Well deserved.

You should be able to look at your fellow students and see which side your grade goes on. Having said that since you are in a Japanese art the grade goes on the right side, along with your name (if your organization does this) and your art goes on the left side.

Welcome to KF!

Welcome to KF.

I heard this when I was a kid but did not know that anyone ever did this practice of dying your belt. Personally if your training regularly (every day for at least two hours) and work up a sweat and continue to tie (break down the fibers) the belt, it doesn't really take long for the belt to cinch.