JR 137

With all the (excellent) talk of kata lately, so many people have so many different ideas of what training was actually like in the days of Miyagi, Funakoshi, etc. People imply it was all kata from day, and not much else for quite some time. I’ve heard people say students would be taught a kata and work on it for years before learning another one. I found a great interview with Meitoku Yagi a while back. Yagi was one of Chojun Miyagi’s (founder of Goju Ryu) students. He offers some insight on how the training was conducted back then... http://www.hgweb.nl/isshinryu/history/yagi.htm Excerpts I find quite interesting (I deleted some stuff in each one to simplify)... Yagi: We did many, many repetitions of yobi undo drills, that's why Miyagi had so few regular students. (Yobi undo drills are basic conditioning exercises that can be extremely demanding). Each student would count for 100 repetitions of a single drill. Sometimes everyone would have to count for 1,000 repetitions. After a year or two most students would leave because there was easier training elsewhere. Yagi: Sanchin training. Yes, in the early days many students came to Master Miyagi to train. He would train them very hard for three to five years before he taught the kata sanchin. Many of the students left before they even learned sanchin but if they stayed he then began to teach them kata sanchin. He would only teach them kata sanchin and this went on for two or three years. It was hard training. Many students left and went looking for another dojo. Yagi: In the old days Master Miyagi often taught in two ways. One, the beginners way, was with no understanding of what they were learning. And last, for the advanced student, was a complete understanding of what they had learned. He would very rarely give insights or meaning to the kata that he taught until the student showed mastery of the form through hard and consistent training. Yagi: When Chojun Miyagi taught karate he taught all students the beginners way. He had very few advanced students but many came and learned the beginners way. After a period of time, these students left but only with the beginners way of doing things. It is my responsibility as senior to teach the advanced way to the world. This is my future and my intention. Goju-ryu is now world wide. These methods must then be passed on world wide. Yagi: Miyagi never awarded anyone a black belt. He was in the process of formulating requirements for the black belt but he died before he completed this. What I gather from this is Miyagi didn’t teach kata until the student was there for a few years. Before kata was taught, the student was taught basics, strength and agility training, and body conditioning. After the student reached a level of proficiency, then they were taught their first kata - Sanchin. And they weren’t taught application of the kata for quite some time. From what I’ve read in that article and elsewhere, Yagi was the only student taught all of the Goju Ryu kata from Miyagi. Advanced students learned some of them, but not all of them. It probably wasn’t until after Miyagi’s death that the other seniors learnt the rest of the Goju Ryu kata. From other articles/sources, Miyagi taught the same kata differently to different students. He altered kata according to individuals’ strengths and weaknesses. He also developed some of the kata himself and/or assisted his teacher (Kanryo Higashionna) in developing some of them. By developing some of them himself, they probably went through some changes along the way. This could explain the variations in different Goju schools, as the head of each school’s lineage may have learned them at different times. This seems in stark contrast to how we’re taught today. Any opinions? Anything I’m missing? If you have similar articles about other founders or people from Miyagi’s generation, please post them. I’m on a history kick lately. How do you think Miyagi would feel if he walked into a Goju school today?

Are you buying it strictly for competition/tournaments, or are you looking for a gi that you’ll train in as well? I know it sounds like a stupid question that shouldn’t make a difference, but bear with me... I had a long conversation with Shuriedo’s USA distributor last year regarding traditional cotton gis vs blended ones. I wanted a gi that was as cool as possible, as my dojo gets pretty hot and humid in the summer, and we don’t use air conditioning. I inquired about the Shuriedo New Wave line, as it seemed like it would be a good fit for those purposes. He told me the New Wave line is a great competition gi, but it doesn’t hold up well to constant wear and washing. The fibers break down significantly faster than pure cotton. He likened it to a formal dress suit you’d only wear on special occasions. The New Wave lines were a few dollars to about $100 more than the traditional ones, so there wasn’t any bait and switch going on. I don’t know the Waza line and didn’t ask, but if it’s a blend rather than pure cotton I’d imagine it would be similar in this regard. I wear a Shuriedo K-11 during kumite class at my dojo. It’s lighter weight than their heavier K-10, but just as good in terms of material and construction. There’s been nights were we did an hour and a half of kumite drills and actual kumite total (with no air conditioning), and I had zero complaints about the gi being too heavy or hot. Completely drenched in sweat, but still comfortable (relatively speaking). I don’t know the other gis you mentioned. Maybe I’m a bit biased, and I haven’t worn one, but I haven’t heard much raving about the non-Japan made Tokaido gis. They’re a different material, made in different factories, and cut differently than the Japan made Tokaidos. If you can get a good fit, I wouldn’t hesitate to get a Japan made Tokaido. People argue Shuriedo vs Tokaido a lot. I’ve worn a friend’s Tokaido Ultimate and owner 2 different Shuriedos. They’re equal IMO. Shuriedo fits me better, so I wear that. If Tokaido fit me better, I’d wear that instead. I wish a store carried a bunch of gis in different sizes were I could go in and try on a bunch of them to see what I liked best. Until that day comes, we’re all stuck ordering unseen and returning what we don’t like. I hear Kamikaze makes excellent gis too. A dojo mate wears a Kamikaze America gi. Looks well made and comfortable. It’s held up well too. A little heavy for my tastes, so I’d go Europa if I was taking the Kamikaze plunge. Just some opinions. Sorry if I rambled.

It’s really too broad of a question to ask and get much valuable information from us. What style karate? How long have you been training? Which kicks? If all kicks are weak, which kicks do you currently do? The biggest question is... have you asked your teacher(s) and possibly senior students in your dojo? They see you and know you far better than we ever will.

Moderation wouldn’t be able to walk up to you and beat the tar out of you. Moderation would walk up, without any emotion, and slap you hard enough to feel it, but not hard enough to cause any real pain, and say in a normal tone of voice “I’m moderation.” He’s probably done that to you a few times, but you didn’t realize it because he wasn’t excessive in his force nor demeanor In all seriousness, I have no advice because I can’t do any physical activity within moderation. The adrenaline gets going, and I have to push my preconceived limits. We have a monthly mediation class at the dojo, which a senior ranked lady immediately follows up with a restorative yoga portion. What do I do when I accidentally go to that class forgetting that it’s not a regular class night ( )? I force the yoga techniques, which I flat out suck at, thereby undoing the exact benefit it’s supposed to have.

Yes I guess you could demote based on inappropriate behavior. However the facts are the facts. If you have earned something you have it whether it's on paper or around your waste. You can not take away knowledge or the skill that has been attained so I see little effect in removing grade. If your going to go to that extent it would be better to just kick them out of class. On the opposite side, if you have not earned something it doesn't matter what is on paper or around your waste you are not that grade, period! You are nothing more than a paper tiger. And the difference between the military and the Dojo is one very important factor, you go home to your family at the end of class and never have to return if you do not wish to and nothing will happen to you. I get that because of some schools training methods you might liken it to the military but trust me it's nothing like it. Your last line reminded me of something a great guy I used to work with said one day... We were in a department meeting when I was working in college athletics. I had to sit through a part where each coach had to talk about what went right and what went wrong the previous year. One coach who was a bit squirrelly (although a genuinely nice guy) made this speech about how our rival got lucky last year because we were unprepared for them and were young, but this year we’ve got a bunch of veterans who are ready for war. He mentioned war about a half dozen times in his tirade. The next guy’s turn to speak was our women’s basketball coach. He had the most memorable speech I’ve heard in quite a while... “This isn’t war. This is nothing like war. I know; I fought in one. Thank you.” I guess being a Vietnam combat veteran and having to sit there and listen to some late 20 something year old idiot rant about “going to war” will elicit that response I miss working with that guy. He always had a great no-nonsense view on everything. He knew how to put things into perspective better than anyone I’ve met.

If I visit a dojo, I bow when I walk in as a sign of respect. For the reasons MatsuShinshii mentions- I’ll show respect until I feel I should revoke it. I won’t bow and say Osu as I do at my dojo, because I’ve learned that some groups don’t know that, don’t do that, and/or take offense to it. I just bow and say Osu in my head Unless of course I know they say it, such as an affiliated dojo or a Kyokushin dojo. I made the mistake of saying Osu at an Okinawa dojo once (part of Seiyu Oyata’s RyuTe Renmei group). The sensei smiled and said “I take it you’re a Kyokushin guy.” He wasn’t offended, but I could tell that just wasn’t done in his dojo. Respect is absolutely something that is to be earned. But that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t initially show it. It’s a 2 way street - show it, and the person will often show it in return. Especially if you’re walking into someone else’s house.

A couple things come to mind... When you’re sparring, you’re not supposed to “try to win.” It’s a learning experience for both people. Figuring out what works for you and what doesn’t work for you. Figuring out what your partner is doing and trying to stop it, counter it, etc.; and seeing if you can incorporate it into your repertoire. If you’re trying to win, you’ll fall into a pattern of doing the same stuff every time rather than trying new things. My teachers and seniors always say you should new try things out with the seniors especially, since they’re the ones who should be the best at protecting themselves and not taking full advantage of mistakes. And it takes a while to learn who’s who in the dojo. Some people like to hit hard and be hit hard, some like to hit but don’t want to be hit, and some don’t want to hit nor be hit. Depending on the size of the dojo, it could take a few months before you’re truly comfortable with all your sparring partners. I’m the guy most of the seniors beat up on (in a good way). They know I don’t mind getting hit, and I like to hit. They know I can handle it. They know when I’m making angry faces after I got hit that I’m frustrated with myself, and not with them. That took some time to figure out. And it took me some time to figure out who I could hit hard and who I had to go easy with.

I agree with what’s been said so far. Physical education teacher talking now ... Maybe have them come in a few minutes earlier than the usual time. Explain the basic etiquette of bowing, titles, names, etc. Keep it brief. Then go into warmups and so on, all the while reminding them of those things when appropriate. During everything you do during class, a brief explanation of why is also good. The kids are there to learn karate - they’re there to move. They’re all excited about becoming the next Daniel-San. Making them sit there for 20 minutes and listen to you lecture about history, philosophy, etc. isn’t going to accomplish much. If it bores you to do so, how do you think it feels for them? Furthermore, do they really need to learn that stuff all at once the first night? Do the absolutely need that information before they step foot on the floor? Are you never going to mention it again? There’s things they should know their first night - who to bow to and when and why, how to bow, who’s who, etc. Those things shouldn’t take more than a few minutes, tops. If earning your white belt requires knowing history and the like, then by all means do it. If not, don’t get carried away with it.

Stripes basically take the place of another full colored belt in some organizations. In Seido we have... 10th kyu - White 9th kyu - Advanced white 8th kyu - Blue 7th kyu - Advanced blue 6th kyu - Yellow 5th kyu - Advanced yellow 4th kyu - Green 3rd kyu - Advanced green 2nd kyu - Brown 1st kyu - Advanced brown I’m currently 3rd kyu - advanced green belt. We see a patch on the “advanced” color belts. Many organizations just use a strip of tape to denote the same thing. My next promotion will be to 2nd kyu - brown belt. It’ll be a new and solid colored belt. When I’m promoted to 1st kyu, I’ll be given a patch to sew on my then current belt. Some schools do a whole new color for each kyu rank, others don’t. In the grand scheme of things, there’s really no difference.

Congratulations Lex. It's great to see you back.

Welcome to the forum

When I travel, I always check our organization's website to see if there's an affiliated dojo where I'm going or along the way. Even if I didn't have the time to actually take a class, I'd try to stop in just to say hi and see how things are done there. We have others from different Seido branches take a class and/or stop in to say hello every now and then. There's two people from different dojos who come in and take a class or two every year during their college reunion which is down the road from us. Unfortunately, none of my travel destinations have had an affiliated dojo. I haven't tried visiting an unaffiliated dojo. I don't know, I think maybe I'd be a distraction at best, or people might think I'm there to show them up. If there was a famous dojo, I'd most likely stop in and meet the CI and watch them teach if it was acceptable. If I'm ever in Denver, I'd make it a point to visit Joko Ninomiya's Enshin dojo, or Fumio Demura's dojo in CA or the like. But I wouldn't show up with a gi and ask to train. I'd call ahead and ask if that was acceptable first if I genuinely wanted to take a class.

When you're in someone else's house, you follow their rules. When you're in your own house, you make the rules. The rules can be very stringent or very lax, but they're reflective of the CI's priorities. I wouldn't walk onto anyone's floor with a hat on. But if it that CI's rule stated I had to wear one or it was disrespectful not to, I'd assume there was a very good reason why it was worn.

I don't think there's a side all Kyokushin IKOs wear it on, but I think most wear it on the right side. Some may wear it on the left. Next time you're in class, look to see how the other kyu ranks are wearing theirs. Especially the upper kyus such as brown or green kyus. If your sensei puts the stripe on your belt while you're wearing it, remember which side he put it on. If all else fails, ask your sensei after you earn it. I'm quite sure he'd prefer you to ask about something you don't understand rather than you assuming something and being wrong. Most senseis are and should be pretty flexible with beginner students when it comes to protocol. How do they expect you to know something they haven't taught you yet? I'm OCD and always wear my patch on the right. In Seido we sew a patch on our belt rather than a stripe when we earn an advanced kyu rank, such as advanced brown, advanced green, etc. We don't have a set side that everyone wears it on. Yudansha don't have a set side to wear their stripes either. In my former school, we always wore stripes on the right. As a black belts we always had the school's kanji on the left and our name and stripes on the right. It drives me crazy that there's no set protocol in my current school, but that's my issue I need to work on When I earn my shodan in my current school, I'll always wear my stripes on the right

Yes. They all probably truly do want unification, so long as the others are going to do things their way

I read a post on a thread on Reddit about this group which sheds some light on them. It was written by a former student... "Headmaster" Dealy (as he's called) is a headmaster at a private school in Brooklyn, NY. The TKD school he runs is mainly for his academic students. The majority of adults in the videos are parents who train with their kids, parents that stuck around after their kids left, or faculty and staff members at the school. There's not much if any videos of the kids to protect their privacy. Most of the students are kids. They do kata at a chaotic and frantic pace. They believe fights are chaotic and frantic, so their kata should also be done so. They believe they should overwhelm their opponent with speed, so their kata should be done accordingly. It makes sense on paper, but you be the judge if the theory is effective in practice. The adults aren't being duped into thinking they're fighting machines; most are just there to bond with their kids and have some fun. Some stick around when their kids outgrow it, so to speak. If they're meeting their true goals and aren't being sold something they're not getting, so be it. Nothing wrong with that at all IMO. If they're happy, which they seem to be, more power to them. It's not for me, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not for anyone else here either. But that doesn't mean it's not the best fit for them. Live and let live. Sure I've had my share of laughs about them, but I don't take myself too seriously either.

I earned both of my master's degrees in unrelated fields to each other and unrelated to my bachelors degree before 40. I was 36 when I earned my second master's degree. A professor in my first master's program earned her Ph.D a few weeks before she turned 26.

I've used it as described in the OP in a rehab setting. To be honest, I found its effect minimal. I used it (Russian stimulation, which is the waveform) a lot on ankle sprains; I'd attach it to motor points on the peroneal muscles and have the patient dorsiflex (bring the toes to the shin, so to speak) while the current was on, and have them relax when it went off. Same with ACL rehab, where I attached it to the head of the VMO muscle (lock your knee out, it's the teardrop shaped muscle on the inside edge of the kneecap). It helped with disuse atrophy (muscle loss due to not using it properly) and relearning some motor movement. With these injuries, I felt it was better to do it and say it was minimal if anything than not do it and have someone say they would've been better off if they did. For any other way to build muscle or strength, IMO it's a waste of time. And money. TENS and other waveforms can work well for pain control. They hypothetically desensitize nerves, blocking some pain signals. This allows better regular use of the injured muscles/tendons/ligaments, which can help the recovery process along. As far as cost and quality of the pads go, I've used many different ones and found no difference related to price. The main concerns should be the appropriate size, shape, and type. If it's too big, you can't zero in on an area. Too small and you can't get enough current without burning the skin. Type - there's 2 main types: adhesive and non-adhesive. Adhesive has a sticky gum-like bottom that goes onto the skin. These typically dry out (and dry out faster if not sealed in a bag when not in use), and if you're not careful you can pull the wire out of the pad easily. The non-adhesive type have a flexible plastic pad, and you can put either ultrasound gel or a wet sponge under it and strap it onto the area. They're far more durable, but can slide off easier. I mainly used adhesive. And there wasn't any realistic difference between brands and cost. I'd avoid the fabric backed ones in favor the foam type ones. The fabric ones fell apart quicker. Get the cheapest of this type and call it a day IMO: http://www.djoglobal.com/products/chattanooga/dura-stick-ii-self-adhesive-electrodes Not this type: https://www.tensunits.com/product/E235PRWCP.html

The advice I give most often to new students: white belt is the hardest rank IMO. EVERYTHING is new, and there's very, very little point of reference to draw from. Once you start moving up in rank, you can say "that movement is similar to X, only you do this instead." An example is kata. Taikyoku 1 was the hardest kata for me to learn. After I had that one memorized and felt comfortable with it, the katas that followed it could be viewed as variations of it, like instead of low block, do an inside-out block; instead of middle punch, do a high punch; instead of forward leaning stance, do a backward leaning stance, etc.

Congratulations. As Col. Hannibal used to say, "I love it when a plan comes together."

If it's a dumb question, I'm just as dumb as you are I've asked that one too. Both karate schools I've been in came from Kyokushin, where hands/elbows aren't allowed to the head, but kicks are. The answers I was given, along with what Wado Heretic stated, was that "it should be easier to block a kick to the head because it takes longer to get there" and "it's too easy to knock someone out with a punch, but a kick is harder to land" meaning if punching to the head was allowed, competition fights would be a lot quicker and the higher skilled competitor wouldn't win nearly as often. I don't agree with those answers. Reading a few things written by Oyama's students in the early days is probably the best reason why it's not in Kyokushin and their offshoots... In the Oyama Dojo days (before he named it Kyokushin and started expanding), punching the head as allowed and was a regular occurrence. Students were cutting up their knuckles on partners' teeth. So they started wrapping their hands in towels and aiming for the chin, like an uppercut. Additionally, students were getting knocked unconscious constantly and missing training time and/or leaving because they just couldn't do it anymore. Oyama reportedly got tired of students not being able to train (but didn't get tired of them leaving), so he stopped punches to the head, but reportedly allowed kicks to the head because he felt students should be able to block those (keep in mind Kyokushin's main kicking target is the legs, not the head, especially back then). And he reported felt kicking the head took far more skill than brawling and throwing punches to the head. Sources to the above were books and interviews of Shigeru Oyama (no relation to Mas Oyama), Tadashi Nakamura, and I think Hideyuki Ashihara; they were all more or less original students of Oyama, and are some of the most reknowned Kyokushin students and teachers before they left. I guess that makes sense. I don't buy it but the reasoning at least has thought put into it. I will say that when I was a younger man and participated in kickboxing, the vast majority of guys that got knocked out were knocked out with kicks and not punches. I get the theory that a kick would be easier to block because you can see it coming but most experienced fighters time their kicks and because of that the opponent either doesn't see it coming or does but it's already too late to react. I hate to admit it but I am in that last classification as I was knocked out twice with a kick and saw it too late to move both times. I was actually never knocked out with a punch while kickboxing. Others may differ and disagree. I did watched a couple of video's last night trying to understand this rule and it's funny you mentioned Kyokushin because most of the videos I was watching where Kyokushin tournaments. The funny thing is there were a lot of knock outs or knock downs using a flipping kick I am not familiar with. Sweet kick! I guess a hybrid of a front flip with an axe kick (I think that is what the TKD guys call it). After seeing that I'd rather get slugged in the kisser than take one of those kicks. They look pretty devastating when they actually connect. Probably 60% of the fights the guy was knocked silly or just knocked completely out. If the ban was focused around limiting knockouts, they missed their mark with this kick. I guess it just goes to show that if you remove something or put an obstacle up, a way will be found to accomplish the same goal with in the rules that have been set up. Love the kick! However I doubt that it would be something to use in a real life altercation. If you miss there would be no ref. to stop the fight and being on the ground, i'd imagine it wouldn't go well from that point on. However it was really neat to watch and definitely effective when it connects. All very good points. I'm not a fan of that flip kick. I've seen it miss far more than land, but I've never seen in done in person. And I'm with you - I'd rather take a right hook to the head than that kick. To the best of my knowledge, that kick came about way after Oyama banned head punches. I'd say mid 80s, it a Kyokushin historian could probably easily prove me wrong. One other reason Oyama reportedly banned head punching - people breaking their hands and losing training time. Yes, that could be remedied by better technique, but heads move, so sometimes the first 2 knuckles don't land exactly where you thought they would. If I ever get the chance opportunity to ask at the right time and place, I'll ask Nakamura why Oyama banned head punching. But I do have more important questions to ask him first

If it's a dumb question, I'm just as dumb as you are I've asked that one too. Both karate schools I've been in came from Kyokushin, where hands/elbows aren't allowed to the head, but kicks are. The answers I was given, along with what Wado Heretic stated, was that "it should be easier to block a kick to the head because it takes longer to get there" and "it's too easy to knock someone out with a punch, but a kick is harder to land" meaning if punching to the head was allowed, competition fights would be a lot quicker and the higher skilled competitor wouldn't win nearly as often. I don't agree with those answers. Reading a few things written by Oyama's students in the early days is probably the best reason why it's not in Kyokushin and their offshoots... In the Oyama Dojo days (before he named it Kyokushin and started expanding), punching the head as allowed and was a regular occurrence. Students were cutting up their knuckles on partners' teeth. So they started wrapping their hands in towels and aiming for the chin, like an uppercut. Additionally, students were getting knocked unconscious constantly and missing training time and/or leaving because they just couldn't do it anymore. Oyama reportedly got tired of students not being able to train (but didn't get tired of them leaving), so he stopped punches to the head, but reportedly allowed kicks to the head because he felt students should be able to block those (keep in mind Kyokushin's main kicking target is the legs, not the head, especially back then). And he reported felt kicking the head took far more skill than brawling and throwing punches to the head. Sources to the above were books and interviews of Shigeru Oyama (no relation to Mas Oyama), Tadashi Nakamura, and I think Hideyuki Ashihara; they were all more or less original students of Oyama, and are some of the most reknowned Kyokushin students and teachers before they left.

I absolutely agree with everything you said, except when you're with one instructor do it one way and do it another way with a different instructor. If it's different schools, that's one thing, but within the same school it should be consistent and not vary depending on who's running class. Just my opinion. And no, I don't think mine is THE way (wouldn't that go against the intent of the thread if my way was the right way? ).

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2017/09/19/study-links-youth-football-greater-risk-later-health-problems/UF3vWIAraotnJnbU8o8TDP/story.html What are we doing to protect kids in fighting arts? Not allowing head contact, and wearing head protection while free sparring. The biggest risk sport for young kids is ice hockey IMO. The helmets are awful, the ice and boards are at least as hard as concrete (I think ice is negligibly harder), and the kids are constantly falling, with and without any contact. I've seen enough pee-wee hockey games and practices to easily say my kids will never play until they're at least early teenagers.

We allow light and controlled kicks to the head, but don't allow hands/elbows. Light and controlled means a tap to the side of the head. Even if we didn't allow ANY contact to the head, we'd still wear head protection... My CI told me that Kaicho Nakamura was watching a tournament several years back (not our organization's tournament). A karateka was swept and landed on the back of his head. On a hardwood gym floor. The karateka was unconscious, and ended up with a fractured skull. He wasn't wearing headgear, as it wasn't mandatory. Kaicho Nakamura immediately made the rule that anyone free-sparring in our organization wears headgear that completely covers the back of the head (not all headgear does). It's also explicitly stated in the safety equipment section of every Seido tournament rules. Forget liability and all that comes with it. Do you really want one of your students to break their skull from getting swept? I'm sure the one he saw wasn't the only one to ever happen anywhere. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially my own students. And how would you feel if you were the one who swept him? Far too many good reasons to wear it, and far too few reasons not to.