JR 137

Do I go there or don’t I? Oh well... Tiger Balm and the like (Ben Gay, Flex-All 454, et al) are classified as counter-irritants. How does a counter-irritant work? It irritates the nerve endings in your skin and tricks your brain into thinking there’s a deep heating effect going on. Basically it’s like if you hurt your hand. I stomp pretty hard on your toe, then ask you if your hand hurts anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I like counter-irritants too. But they’re not heating, loosening, etc. anything.

Adults don’t like to do things they’re not good at, and kids don’t either. The student you mentioned saw actual success, and therefore was most likely motivated by it. Most likely she realized that she could actually break the board and it’s not impossible to do, so she wants to do it again. The more successes she actually sees, the more motivated she’ll become. Part of the problem is everything has become all or nothing. Parents make success too easy (everyone gets a trophy). And when success doesn’t come immediately, parents make excuses and/or allow the kid to make excuses and quit. Somehow people got the idea in their head that hard work ALWAYS equals success, so if you’re not immediately successful, it’s not worth it. Maybe I’m weird, but failure motivated me far more than success ever did. In my first stint in karate, we’d spar bare knuckle immediately (Kyokushin offshoot). My first night on the floor, I sparred with several higher ranks - mainly brown belts and my sensei. I had quite a few bumps and bruises. My thought: “I need to get better at this.” 90% of people’s thought: “I’m never coming back!” In hindsight, what was done wasn’t the best approach.

Not that I’ve really had that moment yet in MA, although there’s been many ah-ha moments, but it’s exactly like when my father told me some things when they was a kid, and now that I’ve got my own kids, I realize “now I understand what he was saying.”

IMO there’s a great reason for jumping, spinning, etc. kicks. Even kicks above one’s own waist - to develop athleticism, agility, coordination, etc. I don’t believe there’s any genuinely combative application for them, but that doesn’t make them worthless by any means. There’s no genuine combative application for pushups, squats, etc., but I don’t think anyone could say doing them is worthless. I agree with you. I did not say that we do not utilize higher kicks to gain flexibility. We just do not use these exercises as real kicks for real scenario's. In my experience and in all of the fights that I have been in over the years and those that I have seen there is one truth... close quarters. Distance fighting only works if both parties wish to fight at a distance. So high kicks are impractical at best in 99.9% of a real fight. I'm sure someone will have a story about how they use them in real fights all of the time but in my experience they are useless other than to gain and remain flexible. If it starts off at a distance or you have perfect timing and can get to a distance in order to throw one of these kicks before the distance is closed then great. However it's been my experience that I can close the distance thus negating the leg all together and take advantage of their lack of balance and bad positioning. To each their own. Nothing says that I am an expert in all things and if high/jumping/spinning kicks work for you then ignore what I am saying. For me they do not work. Just one mans opinion and nothing more. I’m not good at highlighting and chopping up posts... I love what you say about the high/jumping/spinning kicks - they’re EXERCISES. Perfect way to describe them IMO. My father and his brothers were TKD black belts in Beirut, Lebanon in the late 60s-mid 70s. They told me they did those kicks as line drills, but never did them sparring. Except MAYBE if they were being very casual (in a good way) during light sparring. They kicked thigh to rib height, and didn’t wear all the “armor.” Maybe that was exclusive to their school, general area, and/or era though. And I agree - I’m sure there’s a few people who could pull those off in an actual fight, and im definitely not one of them either. Nor do I care much to be. I feel if I could pull off one of those in an actual fight, the guy I’m fighting has to be so bad that I might as well knock him out with a well placed punch or two. Doing one of those kicks would just be showing off.

Absolutely. But having all that access can be a double edged sword. I could easily go on YouTube and find someone who’ll contradict what my teacher is teaching and believe that, when the guy on YouTube is no more credible than some guy on the streets that never deserved any attention from me. And with all this technology at our fingertips, we’ve become a very instant gratification society. Why put in 5-10 years to get a black belt when someone down the street can get you to black belt in 2 years? I guess the 2 years teacher must be a genius because he can teach you everything you need to know in 1/2 - 1/4 the time it takes the other guy to do the same thing. A guy my CI worked with was a 2nd dan at a TKD place down the road. It took him 3 years to get to 2nd dan. He came to our dojo to train a bit with my CI and spar with different people. How skilled was he? According to my CI, about as skilled as any average student with 3 years of training; about 4th kyu level.

My sister-in-law is from that ridiculous thought camp. Instead of telling her kids no, she’ll change the subject, distract them with something else, or tell them “not right now, but later.” Her husband is even worse. And she can’t figure out why her kids don’t listen to a word either one of them say and have zero respect for anyone nor anything. It genuinely pains me to say that about my 9, 7, and 5 year old nieces and nephew, but it’s true. They’ll both wake up one day and wonder why their teenage kids are swearing at them and worse, telling themselves that they gave them everything they could and how can they treat them like that. I won’t. It’s called being a parent rather than being a friend. Too many of these so called parents are more concerned with their kids liking them and not hurting their feelings than actually being a parent and putting their foot down. I’ve never hit my kids and I never will. But that doesn’t mean I don’t know how to discipline my kids. I think too many parents think the only way to discipline is to hit, so they do nothing. All they do is talk. Kids are easily smart enough to know that actions speak louder than words. When kids don’t do what they’re supposed to do, you take things away from them, be it physical things or social things. Simple as that. You don’t threaten anything you don’t intend to do, and you follow through with the consequences. Every single time. It’s not rocket science, and I’m not the parent of the year by any stretch of the imagination, but this pretty cut and dry IMO. No one wants to give their kids consequences. Either they don’t want to hear the complaints, or they don’t want to damage their kids’ fragile psyche, or they don’t want their kids to “hate” them. I love my kids more than anything in the world. I’d love to be their best friend ever, but not at the expense of letting them walk all over me and everyone else.

IMO there’s a great reason for jumping, spinning, etc. kicks. Even kicks above one’s own waist - to develop athleticism, agility, coordination, etc. I don’t believe there’s any genuinely combative application for them, but that doesn’t make them worthless by any means. There’s no genuine combative application for pushups, squats, etc., but I don’t think anyone could say doing them is worthless.

Daniel - “What kid of belt do you have” Mr. Miyagi - “Canvas. You like? J.C. Penney, $3.98...” “Daniel-san, Karate here (points to head), Karate here (points to heart), Karate never here (motions as a belt). Understand?”

“There is no first strike in karate” doesn’t literally mean “you should never throw the first punch” (or kick). It means don’t start the fight. If you’re certain there’s no way out of an imminent physical altercation, a pre-emotive strike is quite often the best defense. So long as you’re certain there’s no other resolution. For example... I was walking to my car late one night after work when I worked in the Bronx. A few feet away, a guy walking towards me asked if I had a light. Once I responded I don’t smoke, it became clear that what he was pulling out of his waistband was a gun. As he was pulling it out, I punched him as fast and as hard as I could in the jaw, dropping him to the ground. I soccer-kicked him a few times while he was on the ground to ensure he wouldn’t get up, then I ran faster than I ever ran in my life (and hopefully will ever have to run again). Did I violate Funakoshi’s precept? Nope. And if I did, it’s a pretty stupid precept. Side note: After I settled down and thought about what happened, I thought I did the stupidest thing I could’ve done. I thought I should’ve stopped and did want he wanted. My boss at the time put it all into perspective: I didn’t know what he actually wanted, although it was probably money, and how do I know he wouldn’t have shot me after he got whatever it was that he was after? How do I know he didn’t just want to shoot me for no reason? I’m alive and unharmed, so it wasn’t the stupidest decision. It would’ve been the stupidest decision if I knew for certain he was only after the $8 in my wallet and I got shot over it. A pre-emptive strike is a beautiful thing. You did right. Somehow my iPhone changed “pre-emptive” to “pre-emotive” in my post.

“There is no first strike in karate” doesn’t literally mean “you should never throw the first punch” (or kick). It means don’t start the fight. If you’re certain there’s no way out of an imminent physical altercation, a pre-emotive strike is quite often the best defense. So long as you’re certain there’s no other resolution. For example... I was walking to my car late one night after work when I worked in the Bronx. A few feet away, a guy walking towards me asked if I had a light. Once I responded I don’t smoke, it became clear that what he was pulling out of his waistband was a gun. As he was pulling it out, I punched him as fast and as hard as I could in the jaw, dropping him to the ground. I soccer-kicked him a few times while he was on the ground to ensure he wouldn’t get up, then I ran faster than I ever ran in my life (and hopefully will ever have to run again). Did I violate Funakoshi’s precept? Nope. And if I did, it’s a pretty stupid precept. Side note: After I settled down and thought about what happened, I thought I did the stupidest thing I could’ve done. I thought I should’ve stopped and did want he wanted. My boss at the time put it all into perspective: I didn’t know what he actually wanted, although it was probably money, and how do I know he wouldn’t have shot me after he got whatever it was that he was after? How do I know he didn’t just want to shoot me for no reason? I’m alive and unharmed, so it wasn’t the stupidest decision. It would’ve been the stupidest decision if I knew for certain he was only after the $8 in my wallet and I got shot over it.

Congratulations Danielle! Thank you for everything you do here. You’re a big part of why this place is such a great place.

It depends on how “breaking away” is defined. I had to leave my first dojo to go away to grad school. A career, wife, and 2 children didn’t leave enough time to return. 14 years later when I had enough time, my sensei moved his dojo an hour away, therefore I couldn’t go back. My current CI won’t be alive and teaching forever. I honestly don’t know how many years he has left until he turns the day to day operation and teaching over to someone else. He retired from his day job 2 years ago. If the right person/people take over when he’s done, I’ll happily stay. If not, I don’t foresee staying very long. Only time will tell, and I’ll have to make the decision to stay or find a new dojo when that time comes. I won’t blindly follow his successor out of loyalty, but I’ll definitely give whoever it is a chance.

Miyagi’s main teacher was Kanryō Higaonna. He could’ve gotten that mentality from him rather than the Chinese. I think he made 2 main trips to China - one with a fellow student of Higaonna, and a second trip after Higaonna’s death in order to further his knowledge. I think he wasn’t able to find who he was looking for his second time, and therefore trained with others; this is where he allegedly learned skills he incorporated into Tensho kata. As far as his popularity and acceptance of his methods goes, Miyagi’s Goju Ryu was reportedly the first style of karate to be recognized by the Dai Nippon Butokukai, and he taught at police stations and schools, so I highly doubt it was all strength and conditioning for several years. Perhaps he taught differently in his early days when Yagi was coming up compared to later on? Yagi was one of his senior-most students. Or perhaps he taught differently in his home garden/dojo than he did (relatively speaking) publicly? I’m no expert by any means, nor am I a Goju practitioner. It’s mostly speculation on my part; I’m just trying to get more insight into how things were back in the day, and how much things have changed. I haven’t seen much on how day to day training was done back then by original students of that era’s founders.

Dave B That’s an interesting view on Miyagi and one I hadn’t considered. It could be correct, but I lean another way... Miyagi wasn’t poor. He came from a relatively wealthy family and could afford to travel to China several times for a few months at a time. I doubt his students and most others’ students were peasants. How much time and energy would peasants have to truly dedicate to training? Regarding a lot of students leaving, I think it was due to the harsh training. In the article I posted, Yagi claims that the students were covered in bruises. Many of them were so sore and beat up that they’d rig up a rope to pull on to get themselves off the toilet. My view is he probably made the training harsh to build mental and physical toughness, and as a way of the student proving they were worthy, in a sense. I don’t think they left because they didn’t learn anything; I think they left because it was too harsh. I highly doubt training consisted solely of line drills, exercises, and Miyagi tee-ing off on them. For a modern perspective, think of Kyokushin. It’s probably the biggest revolving door in TMA due to the full contact nature, and starting that at pretty much day one. I’d imagine Miyagi’s Goju Ryu wasn’t much different in that regard. Which viewpoint is correct? That’s the million dollar question.

I think I know what you’re talking about, but I’m not 100% sure. Could you post a link for an example? If it’s what I’m thinking about, it’s for power generation. Why was it rejected by Funakoshi? It is for power generation, although it is often exaggerated in training, both for biomechanical study, and to account for the shrinking effect of stress/adrenaline. Not all Shorin-Ryu people use the hips that much, and some use it more. Just as an example of the range you can find, below are videos of Uema Yasuhiro, myself, and Shinzato Katsuhiko, all running Naihanchi Shodan, but with drastically different hip usage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBKAZ3WxX78 https://www.instagram.com/p/BbCed1qlJUW/?taken-by=karateobsession Plenty of Goju-Ryu people use the hips that way, as well. Also, some of the hardest punches I have seen thrown by Kyokushin fighters have been done with very effective "hip quaking," as we call it in our system, despite them not doing it in kata. To the best of my knowledge, it wasn't rejected by Funakoshi, and you can see some evidence of that in old Shotokan footage. Now, it is possible that Funakoshi Gichin didn't learn how to use the hips in that way, or wasn't very good at it, or simply didn't like it. I tend to think that, if he did know how to do it, the stances are what killed it in Shotokan. As we can see from his books, Funakoshi Gichin used the more natural Okinawan stances of Shorin-Ryu. It was his son, Funakoshi Gigo, that lowered and lengthened them to what we see today. The trouble is, once you make your stances as long and low as modern Shotokan has become, you CAN'T move your hips the way you are referring to. The hips simply don't have enough range of motion left. These stances also cause a lot of strain and wear on the hips and lower back, which is why so many senior practitioners of styles of karate that use such stances have bad hips and back pain, at least in my experience. That actually goes to your second post regarding their ability to kick--it's hard to kick well if your hips are in pain. Now, that is easily adjusted by going back to higher, more natural stances as you age, regardless of the style you practice, but I know plenty of dojo where such compromise isn't acceptable, so that could be an issue in that regard. Is Shinzato Katsuhiko doing the kata that way for the video, as in demonstration purposes, or is that how he actually teaches the kata? I haven’t seen it performed that slowly and deliberately before; not that I’m criticizing it by any means. I’ve heard the theories you state on why Shotokan doesn’t use it much. They make sense. I doubt Gichin Funakoshi didn’t learn it, but agree the rest are plausible. A high ranking karateka I know who’s studied in Okinawa and Japan for extended periods of time told me another theory - it is somewhat difficult to teach how to properly and effectively use the hips like that, and it takes a long time (relatively speaking) for the student to truly use it effectively. In a small setting it’s relatively easy to make constant corrections, but when Funakoshi started teaching large numbers in Japan, it was probably too difficult to give individual attention, so he most likely dropped it in favor of an easier way that he felt was still effective. One of Funakoshi’s concerns at that time was getting karate accepted as part of physical education curriculum. It was sold to the Japanese government as a way to prepare students for military service. These things combined could be the reason Funakoshi didn’t teach it. If he didn’t teach it on the mainland, it wouldn’t have been passed down to his students, thereby basically eliminating it altogether over the course of a generation or two of Shotokan students. I personally think he knew that way, but dropped it due to a combination of all the listed factors rather than just one, with teaching a lot of students at the same time being the biggest single factor. Gigo Funakoshi reportedly changed his father’s karate quite a bit. Gichin Funakoshi never pointed at his son, but Gichin Funakoshi did imply he didn’t like where Shotokan was headed and it was becoming unrecognizable compared to his karate and intents near his death. I’m pretty sure it was stated near the end of his autobiography. At that time, I think his son was pretty much running Shotokan. As a side note, you still see the hip emphasis in Sanchin kata in Kyokushin and offshoots.

I’m going to go against the grain a bit here, but hear me out... I like the “flashy” katas like Unsu and Kanku Sho. While the flashier versions may lose something in bunkai terms, they gain some things in other areas. They teach coordination, balance, body control, etc. Basically, they’re helping the karateka develop athleticism. It’s like the sensei at a Taika Oyata RyuTe Renmei said when we were doing kicks during kihon: kick as high as you reasonably can; for flexibility and coordination only, NOT for actual self defense!” He said it over and over. We even did a few spinning kicks, and he said the same thing. During actual partner drills and kumite, we never kicked above our own waist. Mas Oyama changed some of the kihon and subsequently the kata he learned in Shotokan and Goju Ryu; some of them look exaggerated. IMO it doesn’t matter what it looks like, so long as you know what you’re doing and can apply it. Same goes for the “non-flashy” kata; in true resisted application it’ll never look exactly like it does during kata. And everyone will have to alter it somewhat depending on their personal strengths and weaknesses, and further alter it to fit the attack coming. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making a kata look “prettier” for competition, so long as it’s not butchered and so long as the actual intent is still intact, functional, and can be passed down. But I get it; some things can get lost. Seido Juku and I think just about every Kyokushin offshoot changed the end of Pinan 3 from the kick/sweep/whatever at the last count to a lateral jump. The jump makes zero sense in bunkai, whereas the kick makes a lot of sense. A lot of people came through the ranks not knowing it’s been changed and therefore couldn’t pass on the true intent.

I think I know what you’re talking about, but I’m not 100% sure. Could you post a link for an example? If it’s what I’m thinking about, it’s for power generation.

Congratulations

Ive met the guy who wrote that. He’s pretty smart. And it’s a pretty good book. He’s my organization’s founder. I originally bought that book in ‘95. My former organization’s founders are front row in a picture of Nakamura and his senior black belts. I bought it back then because I thought it was cool to have a book with his and a few others’ picture in it. Turned out to be some very good reading.

Paraphrasing because I’m too lazy to look up and copy and paste the exact quote... Walk on left side of road, safe. Walk on right side, safe. Walk down middle of road, get run over. You either karate do, or karate don’t. You do karate “guess so,” get squashed like grape.

I’m pretty sure Macchio said in an interview a few years back that he was given the yellow car from the movie and he still has it.

Perhaps a stupid question, but does the embroidery weaken the gi? Seido honbu sells embroidered gis. I really like the embroidered look, but I don’t like the gis they use; I’m pretty sure they’re KI 14 oz. heavyweight. I owned one (not embroidered) and it never fit me right. I’d love to get a Shureido K-11 embroidered.

Is it just me, or was “Wax on, wax off” a play on “Ren ma” (keep polishing)?

The deep stances are there to help give maximum power to techniques. The way I look at it, the deep and rooted stance is for when you’re delivering the “killing blow” and not for while you’re moving around. This is what I meant earlier when I said the important part is getting into that stance and strike, not being there. If that makes sense, anyway. Here’s a great way to assess if deep stances are worth it... If you have a punching bag or access to one it’ll become readily apparent. While in a normal fighting stance, move around and hit the bag as hard as you can. Make sure you’re light on your feet. Then do the same without staying light on your feet, but in a natural stance. Then do the same, only moving forward in a deep karate stance of your choice. Feel the difference? It’s even more apparent with kicks. If you hit a bag consistently, you’ll notice that you’re light on your feet while moving, and root down when actually striking. Try doing the same thing, only deepen your stance while striking. There’s a happy medium between deep and too deep. Speaking of that happy medium, there’s one in kata too. There’s a woman at our dojo who’s got stances that could easily be used in a textbook. They’re deep, stable, and strong. We’re envious of it. And she can easily move in them. If I tried hard enough, I could get as deep as she does, and I have once or twice. But I couldn’t get out of them to save my life, and I couldn’t deliver any power out of them. Hen she’s free-sparring and drilling, you can easily see her hit those stances when she hits hard, but she’s not as deep as she is during kihon and kata. If you look at the others sparring, you’ll see the same thing, but not as apparent. But those stances are there for a second or so while the power punch or kick is being thrown; we don’t walk around in them. As my CI has said many times - the deep stances are great so long as you can quickly get into and out of them. If you can’t, you’re going too deep. Practicing them in kata and kihon will help them naturally get deeper and help you get into and out of them easier. They’re not there for when you’re moving around during kumite; they’re there for when you’re throwing a powerful shot. My interpretation: They’re part of that finishing move. But you need to be able to get into it and out of it without hesitation, otherwise you’ll be a glorified punching bag. You may be able to ingrain the Karate reverse punch from something that resembles the clasical kata stance ( I advice against it though due to the non existent guard while punching=,) but in no way would it hold true for l stance, for an example. It is hardly a natural position to take in a fight. What is “I stance?” As for the chambered hand, if it’s at your side like in kata, there should be something in it, like your opponent’ hand, arm, etc. See this thread... https://www.karateforums.com/hikite-just-a-hand-on-the-hip-vt51004.html

The deep stances are there to help give maximum power to techniques. The way I look at it, the deep and rooted stance is for when you’re delivering the “killing blow” and not for while you’re moving around. This is what I meant earlier when I said the important part is getting into that stance and strike, not being there. If that makes sense, anyway. Here’s a great way to assess if deep stances are worth it... If you have a punching bag or access to one it’ll become readily apparent. While in a normal fighting stance, move around and hit the bag as hard as you can. Make sure you’re light on your feet. Then do the same without staying light on your feet, but in a natural stance. Then do the same, only moving forward in a deep karate stance of your choice. Feel the difference? It’s even more apparent with kicks. If you hit a bag consistently, you’ll notice that you’re light on your feet while moving, and root down when actually striking. Try doing the same thing, only deepen your stance while striking. There’s a happy medium between deep and too deep. Speaking of that happy medium, there’s one in kata too. There’s a woman at our dojo who’s got stances that could easily be used in a textbook. They’re deep, stable, and strong. We’re envious of it. And she can easily move in them. If I tried hard enough, I could get as deep as she does, and I have once or twice. But I couldn’t get out of them to save my life, and I couldn’t deliver any power out of them. Hen she’s free-sparring and drilling, you can easily see her hit those stances when she hits hard, but she’s not as deep as she is during kihon and kata. If you look at the others sparring, you’ll see the same thing, but not as apparent. But those stances are there for a second or so while the power punch or kick is being thrown; we don’t walk around in them. As my CI has said many times - the deep stances are great so long as you can quickly get into and out of them. If you can’t, you’re going too deep. Practicing them in kata and kihon will help them naturally get deeper and help you get into and out of them easier. They’re not there for when you’re moving around during kumite; they’re there for when you’re throwing a powerful shot. My interpretation: They’re part of that finishing move. But you need to be able to get into it and out of it without hesitation, otherwise you’ll be a glorified punching bag.