Luther unleashed

Someway or somewhere I'm sure I am repeating myself. Last night I was teaching and I had a situation come up but I made a split decision. I added a new class a few months back, it was for 4 & 5 year olds. Originally intended to never teach this age as I enjoy the older kids or adults better because they can retain much of what I'd like to teach. One thing led to another and the recreation center really wanted me to try this class and I figured it would help me grow as a school so I gave it a shot. I had a situation come up in this class that I did not handle correctly, on the way home I looked to my wife and said "why did I not just do this, instead of that". She asked what I meant and I explained to her why I should have done something else. Long story short I think it is so very important to be open as a person in life in order to learn, & I think the same is true to be a great instructor. I never think myself great, I think to myself I always have room to grow and get better and better and even better. In my mind if I chase perfection it is much more likely that I will one day reach greatness. PS it is also worth noting that it could be very difficult to find a great instructor in every age group. I am a better instructor with adults and older kids, the younger they get the more I work hard because I know it is someone of a short coming for me, not that I don't enjoy it butts I find it more difficult to integrate fun with karate disciplined sometimes, with the older children and adults of course it's easier because they can retain so much more information. Only on very rare occasion do you find an instructor who is just great at all of it. As in my signature here, hustle and hard work are a substitute for talent. Some people will have it come to them more naturally but that does not mean that others can't outwork them. To all you students who hope to become instructors, have faith in yourself and go for it.

Very cool, i have never sparred in this way, without padding. Looks pretty fun. Nice kicks btw.

I know a little Hung Gar but I have only been training it for 3 years so I don't know much about it,however I do know a lot about wing chun and wing chun and hung gar share a very similar root..very similar. Studying the Hung style has taught me alot about wing chun..and has changed my wing chun in the process for the better..I only know only know gung Gee and the Pole.. "Gung gee fook fu kuen"? I dont practice that form. Its interesting but i enjoy "tiger crane" much more. I think its because gung gee is much slower paced (probably varying based on schools) and is heavily based on breathing. I really dont see any resemblence in wing chun outsode of maybe forms to an extent but not in application and direct fighting methods. You probably know more then me though since your so heavy into wing chun. Pole form is cool, iv always had a real negitive feeling about weapons. I just dont enjoy weapons like bare hands. Tiger crane is a great deal of fun for me because its broken into seperate forms technicaly, which make up the one form tiger crane. In this way i can teach small portions in my program and not have to get too involved as im a tang soo do based school. I like the mix though as its not a martial art you see on every corner. BTW i still want to get heavier into wing chun. There is a guy i was looking at in town and may at some point but he wants 150 a month, and i really dont have that type of money at the moment, hopefully it will happen at some point though. Thanks for sharing sronecrusher.

Oh Lord..how many tests have I done? Many hundreds at least. I've said this before...I test my students each and every class, and they know it. I watch them every class..guage who is practicing, and who is not. Who is making the corrections I make, and who is not. Who is putting forth appropriate effort for their belt level, age and experience, and who isn't...etc. The test itself is really a formality. If the student has progressed to where I want them to be for that next belt and has really worked for it..they will be tested..sometimes without them knowing it. If they pass, GREAT! If they don't, they will know what exactly it is that they need to work on. I couldnt agree more and I appreciate the way you put it. I always say it as well because its how it was put to me. Good post.

This is a very good question...I think that the Sensei should have to show an skill set that they are still capable of the position that they are in. I can, on the other hand, understand why the senior ranks promote Dan grades with contributions to the art. I see no harm in promoting past 6th dan or so based on contributions to the art and the school/system. After 6th dan, they've been physically tested so many times; why should they have to prove physical ability tests yet again? To be considered a master of an art, I think you've proven your physical skills, and now only need to prove your contributions to them. Promoting and teaching legitimate high ranking karateka, teaching a very diverse body with definite measurable and non-measurable criteria, contributions to your area and society as a whole, living what you preach, and so on. These things seperate a master from the rest IMO. It's about advancing your art and the arts as a whole. What do you honestly expect from an 80 year old man or woman physically? Just as in other ranks, does an 8th dan have to be able to beat up all 7th dans and lower? Does he/she have to punch, kick, and strike harder, faster, and more effectively than everyone below him/her? Same goes for every rank. Every nidan shouldn't be expected to be better at everything or even anything than a shodan. Rank is a personal thing. Just because a master's physical skill and attributes decline doesn't mean they regress as a martial artist. In fact, most grow from this, learning to adapt to new challenges. So long as someone is showing growth, they should promote when appropriate; even when their physical skills are regressing due to nature taking over. I respect the camp that believes everyone should test, regardless of age and rank. But if Gichin Funakoshi came to you at 89 (right before his death and he had no known terminal illness/disability other than being 89) and asked you to test him for 10th dan, what physical standard would you hold him to? What physical standard would have been reasonable? If he didn't meet your physical standards because he was 89 years old, would you fail him? Karate is a life-long endeavor. I always enjoy when you say rank is a personal thing. You have said it before and I can't tell you how much I really appreciate that statement. Years ago I was visiting a taekwondo school, I noticed a girl with Down's syndrome on the mats putting in work, she was a belt away from black belt, it always stood out in my mind because I loved her heart and enthusiasm, from a technical standpoint of skills she was not really up to a standard that many of us would hold ourselves to potentially, but it is similar, what you say about age is also similar in the disabilities department. That is why I agree with you so strongly that rank, is a very personal thing. I think in this regard, we should appreciate how much knowledge a person has to their study and what it means to the rink, not always physical ability. To take it one step further I'm not sure if any of you have seen the karate practitioners performing Kata/hyung/forms in a wheelchair. It's all over YouTube just look into it if you haven't seen it, to me it is quite breathtaking and I can't appreciate it enough. I have seen some comments that mention how they do not appreciate it because they could never use these techniques and doing some of these forms without the kicks makes it not authentic. The heart of the warrior and the knowledge is so easily overlooked when we look at appearances and physical abilities, it's a shame .

Jaypo that's really interesting. I'm not knocking the in between rank, if you will, I think it really is an interesting angle. I have thought about doing something similar myself, as some martial arts like to get to do it this way. I guess the main reason I go with the new belt at every testing is it seems like a bigger deal to the students, this is just how it's always been done at places I train. I've never been in a place that does not give you a belt. The main purpose as I see it anyways, of testing for me is to test the students progress, as everybody seems to be mentioning. But, also it is to reward them at the end of that testing for the hard work and keep them motivated to keep going, getting the belt and the round of applause at the end of the day is simply Encouragement and a marker on their path. I'd love to do sparring as you describe it during testing I just don't really know how to pull that off myself, when we do it for black belt testing it tends to run quite a bit longer than a regular testing. Sensei8 that's pretty crazy how many test things you have done, I was born in 1977 LOL. You see, I have been part of organization before and tested for them, I have never been the instructor holding the test for an organization however. It is obviously a completely different angle and point of view on the side of the fence. When I was going to teach for the last studio I was with, it was going to operate in a similar fashion to what you described, as that studio ultimately being like the association I belong too. I was all for it but as I've said before things just didn't pan out between me and my instructor. There was also a great deal of jealousy from other adult students towards my family, who dedicated hours a day to training, and they did not care for how we progressed. In this sense I do not regret leaving, the one thing I can say I was happy about when I started on my own was I was starting to get bored teaching some of the classes under that studio, it became very redundant and repetitive and I felt like I was handcuffed and could not teach to my full potential and spice up the program when I saw it needed to be spiced up. I saw a lot of board students, I guess my biggest thing for people who belong to an association is just that, how, if at all, does this affect you? You say you are free to teach as you want but when it comes time for testing, if the student was not taught what they are expecting there would be a problem no? It's interesting, as for myself I really enjoyed being a freestanding entity in the martial arts world, I can appreciate both sides but I just enjoy doing as I please, it makes me feel more like my program is a work of art and I am the artist. I don't think I would be good for that situation As you describe though, who know, only one way to find out... Are they hiring ??? Hah!

Yes, I would say it's similar to a boxers guard, not unlike to the one Luther_unleashed has in the picture he just posted. Depending on my opponent I do sometimes let my arms drop completely and rely on slips and laybacks to avoid attacks and try and find openings. For the most part though, I do have my hands up. Mo. ok cool, its a good position so why not extend it forward/out. Keep the high just go 'forward' with it claim the space directly in front of you. Easily a good position you explain. Personally I like my lead hand to be a bit more coiled so it can explode more easily, but the way you describe If I get what your saying, can be good to as you say "claim your space"!

That's my daughter, only 13 lol. She spars a lot and likes the more boxing like stance to protect the head, she's been hit a lot haha.

I foresee a future where the dojo/school evolves rather than Karate itself. The best school that I have seen offered traditional Karate, Judo, Jiu Jitsu and even Kendo. Some how they fitted everyone in. Even the traditional Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are filling their schedules by adding MT kickboxing and Judo. However, no one is trying to teach a jack of all traits, master of none style. As a consumer this is what I want. Expertise rather than some Karate guy trying to teach a wrist lock. Or a BJJ guy trying to teach a throw. I do not see Karate changing. Just the package offered to consumers changing. Maybe it's just me but I learned wrist locks in karate, pretty in-depth I might add. Disclaimer: it has been questioned by some as to whether TSD is karate, it is a derivative of shotokan and commonly referred to as "Korean karate". It is in this way I refer to it as karate. If you do not feel it is karate in the sense of being a traditional Japanese art, the concepts are still the same for the topics. I think there are places that teach as master of none and jack of all trades through. Look at freestyle karate and American systems that blend as they please. I do it, although I keep a strong base in one art I do NOT really want to specialize. The consumer is a few groups as I see it. There's people like most on this forum, and that group really cares about what style they are learning specifically. Then there is the group that just likes the school or the instructor and learning self-defense and things of that nature and doesn't care what specific style it is, that was always me, never cared, just wanted more information coming in. Walking into a school and joining and dedicating time to your art requires a lot of trust, trust that the instructor knows what they are teaching. If you dedicate time and apply the techniques taught, in most cases I think you will see if it is, or is not for you! For the future of karate you must look at the past. Everything that has to do with human beings will evolve, practicing traditional martial arts is great, as long as being traditional does not mean that it cannot grow or evolve, growth is important as people grow So should their endeavors, that's just my opinion and why I teach a blend of styles though. Many seem to prefer a more rigid traditional environment it seems. I simply just do not really encounter that as a whole out in the world, The mixing of arts is such a common thing that all days. I say let it grow and adapt With humanity and the direction we go. Martial arts can be something for everybody. You can tell me until your purple in the face about how effective jujitsu is, and I agree with you. I simply do not care, I have zero interest in studying the art, there will always be something for everybody out there. Please remember one important fact about people, the future is what you make of it. Do not be concerned about the future of how others practice, you may practice and even teach the way you perceive is the best way. The future of karate is safe, as long as people are alive and practicing/teaching it.

I believe after learning the basic katas in one particular system. A student should be introduced to the higher level katas. However, one particular student should really focus on one or two and make that the best of his or her ability. Not saying they shouldn't be good at all their katas that they learned. However, everyone should have his or her speciality. Sure, I think that is a general rule for martial arts in general. I think that everybody has their strong points and weak points and as much as they should work on the weak points to make them not so weak, they should also continue on with their strong points to become even stronger. Whether it be kicks punches, concepts, or forms. I hear what your saying!

I didn't see a recent hung gar thread, so I figured it was time for one. It is the only King fu style I have studied to this extent. I've studied a small amount of wing chun and love it though. Any practitioners? Would be great to get a comprehensive thread going where we could post the different aspects, lineages, and same/different ways of doing things. Would also be great to get into some applications to forms like the classic "tiger crane" form.

The saying was originally from Bruce lee, he said " I don't fear the man who knows 1000 kicks, but I fear the man who practices 1 kick 1000 times"! Jaypo adapted it nicely hah! I do agree, I feel that is why we lose some at higher rank. I think there's nothing wrong with starting from basics though and working up to higher on nights when forms are performed. Only doing lower/intermediate forms would be not as much beneficial to higher ranking students though. I have that problem sometimes, when I look out and see 1 black belt and realize I didn't focus on his forms as much as I needed. Does your instructor have help? Does he have many higher ranking students?

That's interesting thanks for sharing! I follow a belt pattern similar to wtf taekwondo which has a "high belt) for every rank, which is a striped of the same color. So white then white with stripe, yellow then yellow stripe. The way you do it having a rank that isn't quite full next rank is interesting though. Testing is similar to class for us as well. The thing I don't do is similar to the last place that taught there, is sparring. We soar in class but. It for testings. Only required for black belt in which the student has to spar 2 people Independently and then a double team. I'd imagine your testings would be drawn out with the sparring if a good deal test at the same time? How many test on average? Mine is usually about 15 or so at a time. A testing is also one hour usually.

I like the input here and it's, for the most part, very free thinking and open minded. Here's a picture of my gaurd... http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XDqi7sHM6eg/VguOqN8cj-I/AAAAAAABAZY/KMcTJyyuq3U/s1024-no/IMG_0276.JPG That is my "home base" as I say. My hands tend to float and are free to flow with my situation and opponent. I do not lock them there but it's where they eventually go back to. My first experience in the arts was boxing so it's a fitting stance. The pros, my face is protected, my ribs are protected, and because I'm more sideways my body is protected. The cons, well I don't see a great deal that's why it's my base, but there are a few. For one thing my hands will be easier seen in my opponents vision so I must be very quick and do not telegraph. There is also typically a larger opening to the chest then a traditional stance. I let my hands float because as seems to be the general idea, the situation should dictate what you do. As I say the boxing gaurd as I use it (although I don't do the most common version in which both hands protect the chin, I leave my lead hand out a bit) is simply like a turtle shell, and is a great base and a great gaurd for the less reactive martial artist in my opinion. My real answer, each person is unique and all does not fit every person. Find your turtle shell and free flowing abilities writhin a loose, reactive gaurd/stance.

As a student of different styles I found most schools had their set style curriculum but as was eluded to, not all schools did the same within that style. I have never really seen a school that did Bassai Soh, and Bassai Dae in Tang Soo Do. I teach both, I also incorporate one form from hung gar Kung fu, and a few Tae Kwon Do poomse. I also have a school specific form. I think it's important to keep a strong base but also open the doors to other ways of doing things. This is why the material I teach is integrated, while maintaining a strong base in Tang Soo Do as to have a (in my opinion) much needed structure. Many schools don't follow the same concepts as mine but I enjoy the topic, it's always interesting to see how others thrive and grow in martial arts. Clearly, focusing on one general way can help you achieve a better and more rich understanding and growth in a shorter time, potentially! I also agree with jr137 about most schools doing too many forms. I also like forms now, but they are overused I feel. For 1st Dan I use one form per rank but in second degree we focus on one-steps and kicks and perform only 3 in total. I think there should be a break up sometimes in the main curriculum. The forms are great to build a foundation I beginning students, it's a great way to help them refine technique. But at some point I feel you should slow down and break them down more, rather then keep learning patterns. Just my opinion of course.

So tonight was my 5th testing. I was teaching for some time With a studio and was set to take over my location with them, i was to do all the teaching and then the students would test for them. I had no experience running testing a other then going through plenty myself as a student and assisting with board breaking and what not. We went separate ways and I opened on my own, big decision but here I am. I have learned a great deal at every testing, things like, how low the energy is if I test all new students and why I like to have some seasoned students in there with them, and what pace keeps different age groups performing at their peek. I am curious how many of you currently perform testings and how many you have done, also the general focus of them? For me my students do a real good workout, usually 15 min or so. Then, I have them do kicking drills fro. One end to the other, while moving forward. Then traditional techniques in horse stance and front stance followed by sparring style combinations. Lastly ages 8 and up perform their forms/hyung/poomse/kata! After all is done they hear me say a few things each student breaks a board with his/her chosen technique (must be different every time), and they receive their belts/certificates at the end. Some here seem to be part of an association as I am not. I am free to do as I wish for the betterment of my program, I don't know if all are as well or bound by a structured rule of "how to"! I'd love to hear how you all operate and bounce ideas for general knowledge amongst us as teachers.

Great points about time off. I have always taken a few weeks off when I got burned out from training. Now that I teach I hope to find the same thing at some points.

Those are good numbers, congrats on your success! I hear you about the drama in a dojo. I personally have none and I feel blessed but this is because it's me and my family I.E. Wife and kids. When I was a part of my previous school that gave me my start teaching it got stupid with adults in particular. Jealousy, different ideas of what was right, not following technique and teaching it right, ego yada yada. Don't miss that at all. impressive numbers though, I think I'd be as big as I can handle alone at 50 to 60 students in the 4 classes I do, don't think I could handle your numbers but time will tell lol!

I met a guy that was a scuba diver for years, he taugh it for years as well, tours and what not. I said "wow cool job"! He said I don't care how much you love what you do, you get tired of it. I have. Even teaching a relatively small amount of time, around 2 years. Running my own program 9 months. I have already hit points where there's nights I'm much more motivated. I find that when I have a very busy week dealing by with Buisness it's harder for me. What I personally do is find perspective. I live in Arizona, I just realize when it's 117 outside that I was a mechanic for many years in this heat, it only got more annoying as time went by, and I then realize how great I have it with my 2hr and 45 min shift in an air conditioned Rec center. For me keeping perspective is key, but like I said that's from a relatively new instructor.

Haha that's funny! I hear you, pick what you will but pick or your done for lol. You know, the days of many battles is over, these days you can't fight like that, even compared to 15 years ago it's gotten tight with the laws and people going after each other the legal way, society has changed quite a bit. Even when I was a kid ~I'm 38~ I got into fights and that is just how we did it, it was common. My point is that if we are being honest then we should acknowledge that martial arts has taken a different path in today's society. I tell my kids, "what's the best self defense"? Some say "a roundhouse kick" some say "a punch" but the answer I am looking for is "NOT TO FIGHT"!!! I have always been a very real world martial artist and I like to dissect things to put its use to the test for myself, but in the end the real world dictated that martial arts is much better served as a way to "LEARN TO FIGHT SO WE DONT HAVE TO"! Maybetrue, I don't think anybody is getting to serious, I just think there's a great deal of guys here who are passionate about what they do. Your welcome to your opinion and I'm not personally disliking you, I just disagree but I typically enjoy the debating of these things so it's all good. I hear you about the students knowing one form better then knowing 20 average! As instructors we all have a decisions to make about standards!

My issue personally is when a person says don't kick in a fight, I'm going to call that a bit silly. Not that you chose to believe that, but that your spreading it so I feel obligated as a teacher to speak about how I feel, which is very different. I don't necessarily agree or disagree about your view on instructors as there are some bad instructors just like bad mechanics. Good and bad is also perception as some may think I am personally good or bad But as sensei8 would say The proof is on the floor and the students decide what is ultimately effective or not for them. I think that the students are paying for karate so yes you should teach them the forms and such when they are ready for them, it's not up to us to decide what you THINK they will do with them. Our job is to teach a curriculum. I'm ok if a person doesn't believe in certain techniques for the street, I just think that some things will always work for some people better than others and we each have our strong and weak points. It is just an interesting angle to be a karate instructor and tell students not to use kicks in a fight, the weapons we teach in class should be explored as options imho as they were designed for that purpose

You know, I slept on this and I have to make a point! I would never tell a student to "not kick" in a fight because their kicks are not really great, I would continue to make the kicks better and better. There is ALWAyS room for improvement. Some students may not punch good enough for a fight but I don't tell them, "if you get into a fight, don't punch"! I work with them to develop their punches or any technique quite frankly!! Lastly, an statement was made that a traditional martial artist can get smashed by a street guy with no training. Of course. That says nothing about traditional martial arts, some people are just tougher. You don't compare yourself to another person to determine how effective your martial arts are, you compare yourself to YOURSELF! It's not weather "jimmy" can beat "Peter" that should tell you about jimmy's style and its effectiveness, it's weather jimmy has a better chance because of his training, Peter might be tougher and not to mention sometimes things do or don't go your way in chaos. Are you better then yesterday is the question. Again, i can't seem to disagree more with your posts, and I will never teach my students to not use what I teach them because they aren't good enough, I will show them the level they need to make it effective and help them reach for that point. I wonder where Bruce lee, chuck Norris or other great martial artist would be if their instructor told them don't do that move because you aren't good enough, rather then be a support system for them to reach higher?!?

Yup, if someone comes to me and says "i want to learn to fight". i tell them go box and learn judo. My friends ask about fighting and i just laugh and dont even talk about martial arts. I explain to a lot of people that a Highly ranked martial artist "can" get smashed in a street fight by a guy that never had formal training. yada, yada. Karate or any traditional martial is a long process. Kicking is fine, IF you feel the person is capable of never screwing up the situation. But IN GENERAL, if i watch a 1000 average everyday students in a gym i would say 5-10 could be capable of handling themselves in a real street fight(not drunks or bullying stuff). So if i say "NEVER KICK" i am talking to the 990 people that are not up to standards or not street fighting material. As for "MACHICA/UFC" , they are kicking on a mat in competition. I think if you put any UFC fighter in dress shoes, skinny jeans, polished marble floor,etc... kicking will be minimal. I will respectfully end my argument here, because I can't disagree with you more it seems. We have made our points respectfully!

BTW welcome to the forum as I see your new, take care!

Like I said I respect your opinion, just disagree. I run my own program, I teach a more "real self defense" aspect in my teachings as I always learned this way, few small amount of sport aspect in my up and coming. I teach my students to use what I teach them to protect themselves. As an example to my angle though, I would t teach (and I don't) to use high kicks excessively, I teach that the most effective kicks are low and mid level. This I just my experience and what makes us all different in life. Ykur profile style says karate, not boxing and from what you say your a good kicker, I just can't wrap my head around practicing kicking so much to never use it, just seems like you don't perceive your system to be a practical self defense system that's all, not trying to pick on you at all and I respect your opinion and it makes for a good friendly argument, just can't get my head around disposing of kicks when we teach/train is systems where kicking is so important. I also practice boxing, and hung gar Kung fu. These systems have very little to NO kicks so you would not be the only person practicing martial arts to feel kicks or less safe, I'm just not one of them who feels that way.