Luther unleashed

This is an interesting point often made in MA study, and Bruce Lee is often cited as saying it, too. But, like many MA adages, sometimes, they are taken too literarily or taken too far. For example, I can look and look and look in TKD for some answers to grappling situations, but I'm going to find better answers in a BJJ school. Likewise, I can train one punch over and over and over again, but at some point, I reach the point of diminishing returns, and that time can be better spent working some different techniques and skills. Training certain techniques extensively can be very important. But one should be sure to not take it over the top. First, never read a book from Bruce Lee. To me he is an actor FIRST and Excellent Martial Artist second. Sadly we will never know if his "theories" ever would work in real fights or even a normal tournament. A high level Martial artist will understand that venturing into another Arts world is just plain "STUPID". why would a striker want to wrestle with a wrestler, why would a wrestler wand to box with a boxer, why would a TKD want to grapple with a grappler,etc... I explain VIVIDLY when going thru basic self defense sessions, "if a Judo man grabs your IT IS TOO LATE", "if a boxer cheap shots you ITS TO LATE" if a "JJ guy sneaks up behind you and sinks a choke in ITS TOO LATE".'a guy with NO FORMAL TRAINING CAN WIN ANY FIGHT"...etc.. As for training one specific technique. I never saw anyone in my life perfect any one technique. EVER. Techniques are "PERISHABLE" its not perfecting it one time and retaining it forever. it does not work like that, period. i could go on for hours about this. but if your happy with building "knowledge" it is fine, that is the most important thing, WHAT MAKE YOURSELF HAPPY and enjoy martial arts. Disclaimer: Do what your instructor says FIRST over a random guy(me) posting on the internet. So I'd like to comment about the Bruce Lee thing. I personally did read Bruce Lee books. The first book I read was called Tao of jeet kune do. I was 16 years old, the book was so inspirational to me along with Bruce Lee as a person that it inspired me to become the martial artist I am today. In the book Bruce Lee introduces people to what seems like simple ideas and concepts but are truly much more deep than the average person could see on their own. This is probably the reason why I am so open minded when it comes to using different styles, because the thing that inspired me was an open minded style free source of martial arts. Ask for him being a martial artist second and an actor first, if you read his books and did more research on him you would find that there is a great deal of reasons as to why he should be considered a martial artist first to you. The fact that he was an actor only means that he deserves credit for spreading and commercializing martial arts the way he did as a martial artist., and as a martial artist I highly recommend reading a few of his books but I would imagine that one with a mind that it is not open but not gain the same as an open mind while reading his book. Chuck Norris may be considered an actor first by many people, but again just as with Bruce, if you look deep enough you will find that he is a truly inspirational and accomplished martial artist first. Chuck Norris has put in an unbelievable amount of dedication to training and time and deserves to be recognized as a martial artist, just as Bruce. As to not knowing whether his techniques with work in certain situations, not only has the things that he taught been around a very long time and carried on, because it is Bruce Lee so let's face it people carried on his work, but he has direct students that have gone on to teach, so to say that we would never know is not correct. A few students are Dan onsanto, and Jerry Poteet. ( I highly doubt I spelled those right, sorry). I asume you have heard of jeet kune do? I teach some of it in my class and I assure you it is effective, which is why I use it. It is truly more concept than style or system, it is more of a mental approach of intercepting your opponent's attack much like a good boxer or kickboxer learns to do, this concept mostly comes from fencing, but I assure you it has been tested. And if you've never read a book of Bruce and know very little about him I can understand why he would be an actor first, all I'm really saying is you're missing the actual picture here and I think in knowing Bruce Lee's vision and philosophy any martial artist could truly benefit from his teachings, he was truly before his time. I agree about the part when you said that techniques are disposable and you must continue to work on them, to me this does not mean you should not learn new techniques, it only means that you should make sure you continue to practice old techniques, of course if I may take this back to the Bruce Lee thing, Bruce thought people to throw away what is not useful and keep what is useful. It is in this way that the style itself becomes not the style anymore, but the techniques themselves remain the techniques. In this way we are focusing more on the person then we are the style. I teach integrated Tang Soo Do. I blend because I feel that I want to teach what I think works best, so I teach more TSD than anything, but as an example I teach a lead roundhouse the way I learned it in Taekwondo at 17 years old. I believe my students and my self benefit from doing it this way and blending, so you see it's not always about learning more, sometimes it's about taking bits and pieces of things and in this way I believe having an open mind to different styles is more beneficial then sticking with one style. Typically one style were Wilbur aid you with a million techniques anyways so the same issue comes into play of too many techniques, this just gives you more options to find "your way"! Sorry for the long post guys, and thank you if you actually read it lol

So, as we have such little interest in this topic I think it's time to try and bring it to light once again. This thread has gotten some good attention on the historical side such as its history, but is really lacking a good deal of people who actually practice the art such as myself. Historical facts are interesting to some extent however, they don't always reflect what's really happening in the NOW in a place we train. Tang Soo Do is a very popular martial art, if you research places in the Phoenix area ( which is where I am) you would be surprised to know there are really a large amount of places that teach it. Because it is referee to as Karate, I think it's a much easier thing to remember, so it sticks quite easily. This is why I believe so many people have to actually heard of it. Tang Soo Do is a very humble martial art as a fighting art goes, practitioners are taught about the negative impacts of having a bad attitude, how important enthusiasm is, and spirits, and how to fight so that you do not have to. This is why although I teach a mixture at different levels of different martial arts that I have studied, I choose this Korean karate martial arts as the foundation, because it offers so many great mental approaches that are truly beneficial two people and children in our society. Tang Soo Do is not a sport, it is not a fighting art, it IS a way of life. Many martial arts have these, and as I teach other martial arts like Tae Kwon Do and kickbkxing, I can only sit back and truly appreciate how in depth Tang Soo Do works on the SELF.

Thank you sir

So with 10 months behind me as my own buisness, I had the privet age of doing my very first party lastnight. Most studios have them, my last had them although they never did a Halloween party. Was a lot of work, it cost money, but it was a ton of fun. I was nervous at first, my first time hosting a party means my first time NOT teaching martial arts. I wondered what I was going to do as if I live in a bubble lol. Things went well however and we had a great turnout with 80 percent of my students showing and bringing friends. At the end we an ounce our babies sex (were 4 months pregnant and thought it would be a cool way to share). Was really fun and I decided to share with others here, check it out...

A recreation center is a great way to go, they advertise for you and there's no rent, they just take a cut. FYI if you ever go that route Mentally filed for future reference. There's several Seido schools in NYC that operate out of YMCAs. Another trend I've noticed recently is different instructors in different styles teaching out of the same dojo, i.e. MWF BJJ, Tues Thurs Muay Thai, with another art thrown in. Not an MMA approach, but different people splitting the overhead, or others renting a few days from another like a sublet. I was sharing a space if you remember, next to a martial arts supply store. I backed out of the situation. Things weren't right for me and that's another thread, BUT in reference to sharing space I was sharing with a Muay Thai instructor, escrima instructor, and another for if karate, and teaching my "integrated tang soo do". As for sharing, one of the teachers had a very bad attitude, and was not cut out for dealing with people IMHO, I couldn't help but feel it reflected on me because I shared the location. Clearly we were different times and classes but customers would come in unhappy on my watch at that pocation. Just something off the wall to think about in sharing space. The ymca is good too, although I'll tell you our market is a very competitive one and finding space is the problem. I think that's the biggest plus in renting your own space bit as you said, will they come?

Yeah, I always love when new students love class, because I ALWAYS ask them how they liked class after their first. It's a great feeling when they say they really like it because it's more then a job, it's sharing something I really enjoy, kind of like when you used to play Nintendo and couldnt wait t I show a friend and they really liked it haha.

Yuk ro cho Dan YUK ro ee Dan Yuk ro sam Dan Yuk ro sa Dan Yuk ro oh Dan Yuk ro yuk Dan These forms are very much Korean and less emphasis on kicks. In fact most Korean forms that are not of Tae Kwon do origin place less emphasis on kicks. If you haven't seen these forms check them out, very cool looking to me, and different.

Solid post!! I like that thanks. I do always simply try and be me, it's a big reason I went off on my own, because I felt "I" would do well. Something not to forget huh? What I try to do though is learn from others, not exactly take their style, but allow myself to further grow by watching those that I feel are good. Like I said I have the least experience with the little ones, all a process for sure.

I think this point is key and seems to be the missing component in too many classes. While I agree it's the person that makes an art effective, I think the more important point is that proper training and preparation is what allows a person to do that. You get good at what you practice but you also don't get good at what you don't practice. To build on that point...At the last place I trained, before I opened my own program, they had a saying. "Practice does NOT make perfect, perfect practice does".

Congrats on all of your longevity in martial arts, not a small task. Weapons would be the way to go for something different and interesting for sure. Of course it's a matter of preference though. A good deal of people seemail to really enjoy weapons, I perso ally enjoy empty hand martial arts very very much. I have trained in staff, nunchucks, sword, and fan. I'm not great at any because my heart isn't in it, but I'm pretty good. If a person thinks they might like weapons I always say it's a great way to go because it's different. Different gets your attention, for me anyways. Also, I recommend a Chinese martial art for karate practitioners because it's also different and really offers a different concept in methods more so then another similar style like Korean martial arts vs Japanese and so on. Kickboxing and the like are great too and I always liked that but it lacks some of the forms and concepts many of us martial artists become a custom to. My answer is really, whatever gets your attention, get it!

Sure that was kind of what I was trying to get at in the video. It's all effective for something, good point.

Thanks for the compliment, for the record anybody can call me Lex in any post, it is my real name. If you grew up watching superman like I did it will become very apparent where Luther comes from lol

Train in different martial arts that I am not as good at any one particular martial art as somebody who trains in just one of them? You do realize that A practitioner of tang soo do, that only practices that art twice a week for an average of 45 minutes is probably less skilled and knowlagabe even in a few techniques, then a person who crossed rains but dedicates 3 to 6 hours a week in each art! Understanding what you can handle is important also. Listen, I want to ask a question to my students, I ask if you make it to black belt and instead of learning new material for 2nd degree, you simply practiced everything you knew prior with you then be better than a person who went on to study second degree material? In some way I think obviously yes, there are two different beliefs and approaches, one believes in reinforcing what has already been learned and the other reinforces the concept of knowing more. The way I teach I introduce other martial arts in with tang soo do as a foundation. At each degree the martial art that we incorporate in to the system changes, eventually coming back to what we have already learned but just getting a deeper knowledge in what was learned and getting better at it. This is my believe so I am saying that I do agree with what you are saying, to some extent, but I'm also saying I do not believe that cross training takes away your ability to still focus on a certain amount of techniques. There is always a point in which you can try to cram too much knowledge in your head and when it becomes effective or ineffective. It really depends on the person and what they're looking for. In essence I'm saying I don't completely disagree with you because if I did I would just teach everything I know all at once rather than breaking it up to introduce it in different stages, I think the entire conversation will revert back to balance and as a practitioner, learning what you are capable of to produce the best outcome, as a teacher I think it is a similar task

Well yes, I think that we agree about that as I stated. However, what we are not discussing is doing 100 techniques 1000 times, - a long time practitioner this is possible. If we are only comparing using one technique 1000 times or 1000 techniques once then this all makes perfect sense. What I am saying is we cannot assume that because somebody trains in different martial arts that they only have a limited understanding because it's just too much for them. How much one dedicate their time to training is very important and it is definitely possible to cross trained in martial arts and through time, gain a deep understanding as well

Here's a quick video with some of my thoughts, check it out and tell me what you guys think. https://youtu.be/pz1NoTxc7CQ

This topic is something I'm very passionate about, as many of these topics are. Sometimes I'm better at putting it into words that I am writing it so I made a quick video in a spinoff thread. Check it out guys if you get time! What makes martial arts effective is sort of the topic and it applies to whether a martial artist should take many martial arts or what martial art they should take because in the end, what is effective? http://www.karateforums.com/how-effective-is-your-martial-art-vt48930.html

As Bruce Lee said that he fears the man who knows one kick and practices it 1000 times, but does not fear the man who knows 1000 kicks and practices it once. This is a valid point, however you don't feel that if you learn how to fix a car that that knowledge will get in the way of you defending yourself will it? So what I mean to say is that whatever you practice, it can carry value. I know a great deal of techniques but there are a few select techniques that I practice for self-defense purposes, and these are the techniques I would likely use in a fight. Again we move directly towards effectiveness being related to fighting alone, but what many fail to understand is that martial arts, unlike simply boxing, is a lifelong movement towards progression, and much of it is not intended for fighting. You see, if you use your mind to understand that some techniques should be your go-to techniques in a potentially violence situation, then I see nothing wrong with learning the entire art or many arts as long as you can differentiate between the techniques that are best for you to use in that situation.

A recreation center is a great way to go, they advertise for you and there's no rent, they just take a cut. FYI if you ever go that route

I disagree with this comparison. I would certainly choose the brain Surgeon who specializes here, BUT training in martial arts is very different. First off people train for different reasons so there's no single outcome desired, as of course with a brain tumor the desired outcome will be treating/removing it. Some people train as a sport, self defense, self confidense, health, comrodery or other reasons. Secondly, depending on your desired outcome or reasons for cross training/not cross training, it's hard to answer. All styles are a blend to begin with, maybe some blended many years ago so we don't think of it as so, but it is. All systems are strongly borrowed from other systems so a strong foundation in a base single art is really a foundation in a blended art already. Bottom line for me personally, I have learned a few different ways to execute a roundhouse from cross training in tang soo do, Tae Kwon do, and kickboxing and a few others as well. I now have a choice of which way I prefer, and not which way is "said to be right". I believe that our greatest mountain to overcome in martial arts, happens to be within this topic. Not to be so bound by styles that we are less free then had we never practiced the arts. We are easily loyal as people, to styles, to sports teams and so on, freedom is using what's useful to you for whatever purpose you seek it, and not questioning weather the movement can fit based on style alone. I have said before, I started in the streets, where I sought to fight better, and learned from a Tae Kwon do practitioner who also boxed in the army. I learned a few really great things that I still teach and as it was a blend, I never questioned which was which, I used what was beneficial to me. I dont think a person should know 10% of many arts, but a dedicated person can learn multiple arts well. A side note, I teach with a foundation in an art, but blend other because I agree that having a foundation in one art can be more stable and beneficial. I don't however, wait a certain time frame to blend anything I think will benefit the student. As an example, I know literally one really great kenpo karate technique that I teach, because it works well, so why fuss about the system, too much fuss makes for less growth IMHO

Hey thanks man, I get what your saying. I just haven't completely found my identity as an instructor to 4-5yr olds. I'm getting there, but not completely at the level of comfortabilty or confidence, or even skill as an instructor as I could be. Honestly I went through a really great instructor program and taught a good deal of classes so I had the experience teaching ages 6 and up. I never did the 4-5yr olds so I lack the most experience there. As time goes by confidence and abilities grow, so I'm getting there. Thanks for the positive feedback Brian? My real name is Lex BTW. Lex like superman's nemesis, which is where I got Luther haha. Thanks again man.

In fact as I wrote the above message, I realized that to me I'm so far from being one to say don't learn different styles until... that my style has a base art, and integrated or secondary art throughout the whole system. As an example I teach tang soo do (primary art) and kickboxing (integrated art) to 1st Dan black belt. We then do tang soo do (primary art) and Tae Kwon do (integrated art) to 2nd degree black belt. The integrated art switches at every black belt level, while the base stays consistant. A student in my place studies 2 martial arts from the beginning and it has never felt like it's getting in the way of something. I personally believe that it, not only ads to their abilities, but also I feel it opens the door to open minded learning.

I see what your saying now shotokanan, maybe it could help you to help students who need to adjust, and is certainly good for your personal growth. I actually disagree in a large way with many posts here that state you should wait. I DO NOT AT ALL think you should wait a period of time before you adopt another style and training. I didn't do it and I personally felt it was nothing but good. Now let me say this, in a way I teach my own style, but I keep a major foundation in tang so do. I do believe having a strong base makes things less chaotic and, to a certain extent, more effective. I dont think you need to know that right away though and dabbling in the arts is a really great way to see what's best for you. I respect people's opinion here, and obviously you should do what you feel is best for you, BUT I am absolutely for crosstraining in another style. I believe it has helped me personally in many ways, and to be very open minded about martial arts is just one of the ways. Good luck whatever you do.

Hey shotokanan, as far as learning other arts.. I have learned many and a strong reason was I moved around a great deal ever since I was young. I never sought out the same style as it didn't matter, I sought out an instructor I vibe with. I have learned many martial arts and I'm not like many martial artists that have a more pure back round so this question is right up my alley. First when you say you want to speak about it and help students, are you teaching? Typically this will only help you in my shoes. I opened a school where I blend arts and I'm open about that. If your in a style specific school and plan to use these other arts to help because of a richer back round in other arts, I don't think it will. I think it will be a problem. What I mean is even arts that are more similar then not, like shotokan and tang soo do do things differently, and although I'm all for the idea of blending to a certain extent to make a better experience, it won't help a tang soo do student with tang soo do specifically, or the other way around. Does this make sense? Now for your personal knowledge and personal growth I'M ALL FOR IT. Learning different arts not only teaches you a different way of doing things, but exposes you to different cultures and things like this. As an example I learn hung gar Kung fu and it takes me out of my usual Korean back round and gives me a sense of Chinese martial arts culture. So again my main question is are you teaching for your karate school? I just want to understand whats going on better, thanks!

Sensei8, I appreciate the comments and encouraging words. I don't know what makes you feel somebody li I e you could learn from me but thanks. I agree and I think we're pretty much on the same page here, and as I said If I had it to do over I should have had my kids deal with the child. I hear what your saying about them relating to him in one way or another. You see, they help me in this way often. If it was just me out there it would be so hard to make the environment seem the same with the kid energy that can relate to the kids. They are 10, and 13 and really make kids feel at home in that age group/class. You know it's probably good for its own topic but I struggle with fun vs structure often. Being somewhat fun and silly comes natural to me, and being structured in class does as well, but I find it hard to be as loose as I need to be and let go of structure as much as I need to, to really be a great 4-5 yr old instructor. I have seen some guys that are really goofy and have that energy like you said, and it's not as easy to me. I do pretty good, but again it's a real process I'm working really hard at. Thanks for the comments and words of encouragent again! Maybe true lol, man we are really just different people but I really do respect you as a person. I hear what your saying, BUT in the end I feel that (especially if an instructor has help) it's my job to attend to all kids there. There are times I have to just keep going, and a kid must work it out but I could never feel I gave 100 percent as a business if I let that happen while I have help from somebody in teaching. In fact it's the reason they are there. I can run large groups without help, but where I need help is the kids that stray from the group for whatever reason. As to your numbers, I can't speak for any students over 15. I took over my location from the studio I trained with, they left so I'm alone. They were their 9 years, and tried to get adults for a long time. I also tried and ha e pretty much given up trying after 6 months. For some reason the Rec center just doesn't pull adults like a stand alone. Anyways, my biggest turnover group (for reasons I can't figure out) is the 6-7 yr olds. 8-13 is my largest group and was for the last business 9 yrs straight. I can say they are the easiest for myself as well. However, the older they are in general I fond the easier it seems as they can make adjustments more easily without such confusion. Sometimes I explain something, even show it and they look like I'm breaking down algebra haha.

Solid post!! Not every instructor can teach 4-5 year olds; it takes a special instructor to do so successfully. And you're right, it is "playing" because that's how they learn, and how they retain, even if it's a miniscule of information...patience is greatly needed to teach that age group. Everyone knows that when it comes to that age group, I'm nothing more than a big kid. That age group responds to that silly instructor who they can play with. If I may ask... What happened that made you make that statement to your wife?? Well your right about how they learn. I am still learning how to be more fun because Im more rigid in a lot of ways. As to what happened it really wasnt a big deal, I always converse with my wife after class, she helps put as needed every night, BUT what happened was I had a new student, 2nd day in and he was crying. He was crying to the point he wouldnt talk to me. I was doing a relay race with 2 lines of kids 3 in each line. My 2 daughters also help me in class and were holding pads. The goal was to run to the front wall of the gym, and run back and perform the chosen technuiqe such as jump front kick and so on. I stopped to try and get the new kid into class and he wouldnt so I said ok and went on with the races. So, what i did wrong is what my instructor who taught me how to teach taught me... "dont ever let a kid stand around". Why would a parent pay for their kid to stand there? What i should have done is get one of my helpers to go work with him, or get a helper to take over the races so I could work with this kid. I had the help, so I had no excuse. Sounds so simple but to me I was so aggravated that I let him fall by the wayside. Its little things like that, that I work at every class to get better. When i taught for somebody else I always taught the 8yr oldand up classes the best. So when we debate a good instructor, I think its important to look at many things, because theres many different facets to what we do. The important thing is to get better. Sorry, I feel like im venting now lol.