Luther unleashed

In all fairness the lack of popularity (compared to TKD) might be a good thing for TSD. Fewer imitators and fewer politics. Yes good point. Also, as an instructor it means less straight across competition

Oh, and one more thing. The tittle is to Korean ma, BUT I don't find too many negative ideas surrounding TSD as a whole like TKD, and again I think it's because of the Olympic thing and popularity but also in Phoenix I can tell you tkd places are so commercialized and I view them as business first and do-jang after. They just don't have a traditional experience from what I see, I see them as the k-Mart of martial arts. I hate to say that as I stated I started in this art. I also use heavy tkd one steps instead of TSD because I simply like them better but it's just what I see. It's a shame.

Dwx, I hear you. I started in ITF as my first school experience. There was really no more emphasis on kicks then anything else, some of that may vary by school and not by organization however! I wasn't saying that the masses are correct to assume kicks are all tkd is about, because I felt that way, I get what your saying. I was just saying since it's the Olympic system, that it happens to be the one they see most, and come to know it as. Thanks for the clarification on the way Tae Kwon Do is presented. As I stated I have done a few systems of tkd and seen it differently but never really researched why it's shown differently. Lastly as for it being a good foundation art, haha don't get mad but for me that's what it was. I started in kickboxing/boxing actually from an instructor who was my best friends uncle. I took lessons at home because I wanted to learn to fight. I Soon After found a tkd school and began training at 17. It became my foundation. I went on to do other arts more extensively but always appreciate my background. Because it's my foundation I will often stick up for tkd as well. My main style has become tang Soo do, which is also Korean so it fits nicely Thanks again.

Cool. Kichu ee bu for me looks similar. A bit less rigid then the first video and more hip doing the high blocks. Kichu ee bu http://youtu.be/bULgq3Hx13c Brian if you look at all shotokan forms you will see the TSD forms come from them for sure. Very very similar, but changes, same patterns but not identical techniques.

Thank you guys. I think it will be cool to upload pictures of the completed product. I'm going to be light on the equipment side but I just mean as far as what it looks like with the walls the flooring and anything else I can afford at the moment. Stay tuned!

Thanks. I use century martial arts for things actually, I'll keep that in mind for sure. As for price, I don't know what others are paying in that lot so it's hard to say if I'm getting a good deal. The good deal for me was the rent that slowly scales up to asking price on a 3 year lease. I looked around and the price was comparable for size, but in my opinion it was a btetter location then a lot of them for the same price. I agree about the corner spot, happy about that. The big yellow karate sign, man I couldn't complain if I wanted too. I was stressed about how to teach at the rec center and teach at this new location at the same time. Well, I made a deal with a black belt Jiu Jitsu instructor to teach at the new school while I am at the rec center teaching, then I'll get back and finish with some karate. I was stressed because I did not want to have to only be open a few small hours while I was down there teaching, now my business can be open and be productive. Things working out, well, I'm not going to lie I'm making them work out haha. A lot of work

Here a few from the outside. Sidewalk view http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NxhBhSFHLXk/Vo_yaFzoE6I/AAAAAAABCxM/Pm7FVe2UAkg/s1024-no/IMG_0553.JPG Front view http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NzRsfzdYvHY/Vo_ya7nPyjI/AAAAAAABCxU/Rf_msao0Ajc/s1024-no/IMG_0554.JPG

Thanks guys. A bit small especially when I'm used to a gym but I'm excited to see how I can make it look myself

Dwx, I actually think it's a fair assessment about Korean martial arts and fancy kicking. Did you know that Taekwondo is the only Olympic sport and not karate, King fu and so on? I'm sure you know that, and I don't mean it to say that you don't know, I am just making a point. The WTF style in fixes all kicks, as I myself practice WTF techniques I can tell you it lacks many of the traditional karate techniques even with their kicks. The kicks are meant to be fast and thrown in combinations and are different then traditional karate kicks as traditional karate tends to commit to the idea of one strike one kill. I realize that karate does combinations well, and so do other taekwondo organizations other than WTF. The thing is though that the style that is seen the most is the one in the Olympics and that is what people think of. That is what propels taekwondo into a new level of popularity. As a Korean martial artist (primarily) I do wish this was not something that was thought about the Arts that I do (primarily tang Soo do)! The fact remains that I absolutely understand why. Many taekwondo schools do not even count points for hand strikes, this makes them rely heavily on kicks just to win the match. These factors create the perception people have about Korean martial arts, it is not something that can be changed easily. May I ask why your profile shows tae kwon do as "Tae Kwon Do"? Reason I ask is when I speak into my phone as I'm doing now it spells it without the spaces as taekwondo, this is the reason I often will write it this way when I'm on the forum, because it's automatic. I often see it this way however, and I also see it as "Taekwon-do". The way I first learned it back in around 95 or 94 was Tae Kwon Do. I rarely see it this way though, did you mention you were ITF style I can't remember. The reason jist complete curiosity that's all. Take care.

Yes, taekwondo is not really a martial art that uses application much. In Tang Soo Do we use application, because the forms come from shotokan and shotokan is heavy into applications. If you were to research applications of TSD however they are not nearly as plentiful, so most applications would be found from shotokan specifically. There are SOME forms depending on the lineage of TSD like yuk ro, that are not used in shotokan, but they are higher level forms past black belt. Up to black belt is almost always shotokan style forms, so applications are plentiful thanks to the grandfather art of shotokan. I enjoy application probably for then anything sometimes. There are some really great ones out there. You can easily determine your own and this is an exercise I do in adult classes, developing your own. It's fun and helps students to develop the way of thinking. Noting however that if you do not practice application, kata is still very useful in that you are training stances, stepping, posture and so on. To the poster, I would not get frustrated. A person on this forum said something and I repeat it often. This forum is a great place to get ideas and use them in training and I have done it myself. Anyways, (can't remember who) he said "application should be reserved for good karate"! I really like that. I think it's ok to dabble and get the mind geared for it but the karate should be good first. In this sense they should start to be learned more after black belt because if you think about it, the basics are typically mastered by the time you achieve black belt. You can always research application on your own, but remember, work hard to make your forms/hyung/kata better then ever first, then your applications will be solid! Good luck!

Just watched it, yup, as bushido_man stated its a combination for sure. Defiantly not a TSD form, but I'm certain it's not a form at all. The outside knife hand blocks are "American tang Soo do" and probably other martial arts do them as well but I have only seen them as that. I do practice this, however I do them differently, as mine start from under the arm. If you look closely his start above the extended arm near the shoulder. Around that time chuck Norris developed American tang Soo do, as Time went by he altered it to chun kuk do. Since this time period it has also been called American karate but this term is more relevant when referring to American freestyle karate which is very different. Sorry to get all deep, it's just a confusing mess, the history of SOME branches of TSD ha! Defiantly not a TSD form though. The main thing about TSD forms is that they typically have a good deal of foot movement, moving in a direction, not stationary. Foot movement is a certain TSD characteristic of "hyung" or commonly known as kata/poomse in karate/TKD! Shotokan forms are the main forms of TSD but even MDK Which uses yuk ro and different forms like that, are heavily movement based.

Just saw this, sorry I gave up on the Korean forum haha! J/k, I'll check it out now and get back. I know what part of course I just can't remember the exact sequence of movements. As for the name, do you know I first saw this in somewhere around 1994, and I saw it as "return of the dragon"! I then saw it years later as "way of the dragon"! If you google it, it seems the way of the dragon as you called it is the more popular name, although it strangely comes up with the same movie under return of the dragon. Just a weird thing I have wondered about for many years.

Here's an inside pic. Needs some paint and some cleaning up. Last karate place had mirrors so that's something the walls regret lol. Thinking of going similar colors... We'll see. http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PCX28UD1IyU/Vo_yZtd-p_I/AAAAAAABCxI/PG2Uvgy5ea4/s1024-no/IMG_0552.JPG

I suppose it depends on how testing is done but in my testing I am very loud in my commands and if people talked you wouldn't hear a thing. Just not an issue. In the instances in which a student may be performing a hyung/form and things are quiet, people tend to be respectful of that. I'm not knocking a testing that is more quietly performed and lower energy BUT high energy and commanding the room is absolutely essential in how I do a testing so these things aren't really an issue. I have some videos around in sure, I'll have to post a small clip of what I mean.

In a very simple and direct way you have stated some of what I was saying. I felt that way when my son had his testing that I couldn't see. In my mind, if he failed that leaves me with so many questions as to how or why no understanding of his progression or lack there of Would the instructor not tell you and your son why he did not pass if he failed? Another reason our's are closed are so if someone fails, that's a private thing between them, their instructor and the other candidates. Obviously it can be seen that they don't have the new belt but it is then up to them if they want to share with others how it went. Regardless my instructor always takes time to go through with the student what they need to do to pass next time. Im not sure really but yes I assume he would. I also assume I'd have to just take his word for it and couldn't form my own opinion about how to help my son improve from what I see, obviously I know his abilities and training habits and so on.

In a very simple and direct way you have stated some of what I was saying. I felt that way when my son had his testing that I couldn't see. In my mind, if he failed that leaves me with so many questions as to how or why no understanding of his progression or lack there of

I can respect that angle of why to have it closed, I it's an interesting one. I have witnessed these types of things throughout all activities and not just testing. Why is he testing again, why is he always s using him as an example and so on. I happen to think it's a normal part of life though. I also think that attitude is going to be there or not be there and weather they see the testing or not, isn't going to change that... Unless they are color blind and don't notice the new belt lol

In a very simple and direct way you have stated some of what I was saying. I felt that way when my son had his testing that I couldn't see. In my mind, if he failed that leaves me with so many questions as to how or why no understanding of his progression or lack there of

I wish there was a "like" button because there are some great posts!

Very interesting thread, I have did before I used to have my 8 year old son in a karate program. He wasn't where I trained because of class times and with us training and myself in a very demanding instructor training program the times didn't work so he went elsewhere. I was really taken back I couldn't view his first testing. As an instructor I was frustrated because I wanted to see his progress and him perform under pressure. As a parent I felt it was like hiding something and I felt jipped! I was never able to understand completely why, and I always felt it was wrong to have me outside while my kid is inside. Not a knock on those with private testing, but as a parent and instructor I just can't be ok with it. Iv also said before that to me, students testing is equivalent to our version of a "game" as there would be in a sport like soccer or basketball! Also, it shows the newer students what to expect. Open testing here!

Solid post!! I'd only start to fret when the numbers start a downward spiral dive to the bottom...then, I'd look at ME, and ME only as the cause. While I agree with taking responsibility, things can fall regardless of the quality of the instructor and assistants. You have to look all all outside possibilities as well. Keep in mind Lex is based in a rec center... Are the hours appropriate - perhaps he'd get more students on other days and/or times the space is unavailable Did the rec center change policies such as fees to members, wanting more money per his students, etc. These things can drive away students, and he's got no control over the policies the rec center sets. Is the building in disrepair Are the rec center clients bothering his students And so on. In a rec center, people look at the programs contained within it to be extensions of the rec center, and not an individual renting space and running his own program. They may also look at it as a short term activity. If parents have a membership to the rec center and view his program as something for the kids to do while they do their own thing in the rec center, what happens if the parents decide to leave the rec center? Being in there throws a different spin on things. A lot of it has no correlation to the level of instruction nor his personality. Haha that is a great post because it's so deep and insightful! I am in a Rec center, I have the center for the 2 days a week I have it, obviously I have to always wonder how things would be if I was in oposing days, or more days of course. I do my classes in 2 days a week only. Also, you wouldn't believe how many people email me and say "is there karate this month?" After doing their first month. I say we are a year round program until I'm blue in the face BUT what about the ones that assume and didn't write me? We are cheap as far as a karate program goes, and the Rec center takes a small cut so not a bother there BUT how are MY customers treated by the Rec center in general? That's a good question. The rec center does a poor job of advertising, they almost always have times wrong in the brochure, and they just allowed another program in one of their facilities about 10 min away. The style is goju ryu and I know nothing outside of that. Fact is, the real test will be what happens in April and I open my first stand alone facility, none of these factors will be an issue. I have condenced my rec center classes into 2 classes (was 4), and I am working on getting a few other classes at my dojo to run while I'm teaching at the rec center, then when I'm done I'll finish at the dojo with my classes. Have a jiu jitsu guy interested so I think it will be a lot of good stuff happening. Yes, April will be my true test as an instructor, and I sure hope I pass haha! Nervous to say the least, sensei8 said if I build it they will come lol!

I think that's a good idea, I think a pole would be interesting to see where the split is and how many do it each way. Maybe if nobody does it I'll start one up when I have time

Couldn't (respectfully) disagree more! To me, it's the game that soccer, baseball, and other sports have. It's a time for people to see the hard work and cheer you on. At my testing so do it as I have always seen it. Family and friends are welcome. It's a big day for student, and support of family and friends is well deserved. It helps to make the families more involved. I see grandparents and other family members show up that I NEVER see in normal classes, to show support. I think it's a very positive thing. I can't imagine too many benefits to testing a being closed but I'm open to hear somebody's argument?!?

So a bottom line for me? Well, in all honesty I'm a struggling martial arts instructor trying to make it. I have wanted a second location on opposing days since I opened but as many calls and many places I showed up, nothing. This is what made me sign a lease at the new location. It's because I'm under my bottom line at the first location and it wasn't enough to work 2 days a week. The other thing is I am not a member of the community where my Rec center is located so it's hard to grow a great deal of you never get out there. The new location is near my home. When I always meet people they find out I teach and say "oh, little jimmy wants to take karate, where are you?" I tell them, "I'm 30 miles south of here" and it stops there haha. Now I can say we're right up the street. We are very active in our community so I'm excited/nervous to see what happens. As for my first location I hope to still do what I do and make it as solid in 2016 as it has been in 2015. Now, with a full time location I'm happy, even if I don't make a million bucks I'll be content having a place I can dedicate full time to.

The bold type above tells it all!! Do you know what businesses like to do? They always compare last year numbers with current numbers to see if they're increasing. Most retail stores do what's called an X Reading of the registers once every hour, and write the numbers in a log book that also shows numbers from last years date and time for comparison, with a final Z Reading for...yes...comparison. Don't reach expectations, then their DM will be calling and offer some advices as to how they can pass expectations. This also allows the DM and the Store Manager to come up with a plan as to what might've caused the low numbers, and in Retail, it can be as simple as Presentation of an End-Cap or a section up to an entire whole isle. Shoppers are visual, and are drawn to pictures, and not drawn into reading what is on the shelf. Presentation where consumers have to read all of the time, well, they're numbers will be lower than the store that planograms so that consumers see the pictures before the written words. I ran those figures for the entire time I owned and operated my MA Retail Store in the front of my dojo...X/Z Readings, the whole thing because it was RETAIL, but as far as the main dojo ratios, I ignored them after some time because it started to run me, and not me running the dojo. Not good for any CI...I'm there to teach, and I couldn't teach by looking at the student turnover ratios. Students deserved much more than that from me!! But that's me! Starting out, I'd do exactly what you're doing, and I'd graph it as well...visual realization can get you right in the P&L [Profit and Loss Statements], more than one can appreciate. You've got to build up the student body to cover the months when students life's prevent some from attending...summer...baseball/football/sports...holidays, especially Thanksgiving and Christmas...etc!! I get what your saying. I like what you said about consumers and not wanting to read haha, I like it because it's a smart observation. I also hear what you mean about the numbers running you, my numbers have me out of breath at the moment. I could stop with numbers, but maybe my cardio is not up too far haha