Luther unleashed

Excellent points. Regarding partner work... It becomes very obvious who's who once you start sparring. I went into my current dojo as a white belt, and everyone knew I had studied before once we got going. In the locker room, few of them asked me where I studied and for how long. Walking out, 2 others asked, saying "you don't move like a white belt." After a few months, one of the yondans swept me during sparring, saying "I don't treat you like a yellow belt because you don't fight like one." Not to pat myself on the back by any means; others have walked in and I could easily tell they've had previous experience too. "The proof is on the floor" meaning the color of the belt doesn't mean much. I agree about the sparring/partner work that "the proof is on the floor"! Sensie8 it really fits don't sue me lol. The being "swept by another student". We have a rule and iys that no sweeps are allowed unless you are a black belt and you must sweep a black belt. Part of this is because we are not on mats, we are on a gym floor, so sweeping should be done with some experience. Has it been coming for you at places you have trained to sweep one another? Just curious. Bushido pointed it out that in sparring it matters and will really show. I personally never got into much sport aspect of my training, so.times I wish I had but just never been my thing. Last time I was at a tournament I was there because my wife was competing

I get it. I'm a very "against the tide" kind of person, I don't know why and often wish I play nice better. I teach traditional martial arts yet I do a great deal of things my way, I don't let tradition hamper my program in any way, or at least try not to. I agree we get too hung up on it in martial arts for sure. My idea about what makes this OK or not OK though has nothing to do with that, and more the politics. As martial artists we all know rank is subjective, your 1st Dan isn't always my 1st Dan and so on. I belong to no organozation, or at least none that dictate my curriculum as a standard. So what is the measure of my standard. It's my experiences, not yours, or sensei8, or anybodies right? The same, I doubt it BUT I'll bet there's not as big of a gap as could be in some places. My only problem here is that from the paperwork standpoint, you will carry rank in kenpo (sorry my phone keeps deciding how to spell it, it's kenpo as I know it) and if all you have to do is be a student of tang soo do or even a mixed art, to get any rank in kenpo what does this do in the long run. I mean, here the line on so and so facebook. "Derick so and so " is a 1st degree black belt in tang soo do, and a 1st degree black belt in kenpo karate as well. This points out the lack of a true depth to somebodies rank. I'm a "rank is subjective guy" but not a "rank means nothing" guy. There's a bug difference and that kenpo specific rank means nothing until they earn it. You know, in my "LIL NINJAS" class ots 6 and 7yrs old. They can earn a black belt in Lil ninjas, then they start at white belt in the REAL program at 8yrs old. Or at least the Jr program. Starting at white is easier for some then others bit it's a test of character, it's a lesson and journey of growth. If I walk into a kenpo place, a shotokan karate place, an ata taekwondo place I don't expect any rank for my hard work, not because I practice tang soo do which is a derivative of shotokan, not because I practice WTF style the kwon do, or whatever. I wouldn't want the rank because rank looks good on paper, but it's the actual training that I'd be after. This is the biggest lesson that misses most that practice martial arts and I really dislike that about the arts. In many ways rank is more damaging IMHO then good, or at least it's a close issue. Sorry for the ramble lol. My wife get tired of hearing me get worked up about these topics so I'm here haha.

You can respect them. Did they work hard to earn their rank? Are they good students? Does the teacher do a good job? If so, you can respect them. You don't have to like this instructor's decision here, but that doesn't mean you can't respect the instructor or his students. I'll just throw a few ideas out here to stimulate the conversation a little bit. I think the main reason the instructor is doing this is to retain students and keep his school open. Its a good strategy to keep the students that have already invested the time they have at the school, and it would hopefully prevent him from having to start over, which would be financially tough. Here's another aspect to look at. He may allow them to keep their current rank, but that doesn't mean that he won't make them "catch up" to their current rank in his teaching material. It could be that he lets them retain their current rank, and recognize it, but will only grant them appropriate rank in his system as they accrue it. Lastly, its a situation that looks hinky from the outside looking in, but do you know what his plans are, or just assume? If in doubt, heck, go talk to the guy, and determine his motivation if you really want to. But until you really know what he's about, what he's up to, and what his goals are, you really just end up making assumptions and judging him based on the assumptions you are making. When in doubt, try to gather as much information on a situation as possible and then make an informed decision. Jumping to conclusions is never helpful. Now, I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, and I admit that. But, what is known about the instructor? Maybe he's really good at what he does. Maybe he's not. Maybe it is just a business ploy, and he could be more businessman than Martial Artist. Who knows? In the end, I wouldn't trouble yourself too much over circumstances you can't control. If the guy is a bad instructor, then things will probably rectify themselves after some time. Now, with all that said, you may still not respect the action he's taken. But, get to know the person more before passing a judgement of whether or not you can respect him. Who knows? You might end up making friends with a good instructor that could start the beginning of some interschool relationships, workouts, etc. Hey Brian, I wouldn't say I'm concerning myself with it really. I'm in no way associated with my old school anymore and I also do not even really communicate with them so it really makes no difference to me other than the fact that it is a shocking way of doing things. I think it's fair to say you don't know or I don't know who or none of us know the situation but in my mind I can't rationalize it with any explanation. This is just my opinion, if he was going to have them catch up then I think it should be similar to how JR 137 put it, he wrote about starting them at white belt and later on ranking them where they should be and I think that's more fair than to rank them at 1st degree black belt in Kempo when they've never trained Kempo a day in the life and are Korean martial arts is very different. Like I said that's just my opinion, but I posted it here not because I was so concerned about it, but just because I was curious what other people thought. I find everybody's opinions interesting. I often disagree with what the general consensus seems to be about martial arts in particular, and I'm not one to really be considered a traditionalist although I teach traditional martial arts, it's just an interesting topic to me that's all. Hope everything is good with you

Sure my hands was just an example. It's different then a shin for example. There are many parts that people try to harden though, small knuckle of index finger for "eye of phoenix" or Palm for Palm strikes, often for breaking teqnuiqes. I have heard what your referring to, the micro fractures. I mostly feel that although it works, I feel it's a young man's game and not without issues getting older though. As for my hands IDK what it was but I am a 16 year mechanic and worked with my hands as well. I quit when I opened up my program because I had thrown my back out repeatedly, 5 times in 16 years to be exact and I just had to say enough. The hands may be something like carpel tunnel idk, all I know is no issues since I quite hitting the bag so maybe it's time to leave that alone for good, was pretty scary and annoying. I hurt my knee doing a kick 2 months ago also, and have been forced to use my other leg for now, sadley I was one sided more than I'd like to admit and I hurt my "good kicking" leg. Been a rough few months lol. Getting close to 40 and feeling as if I'm close to 40, sucks.

Yes, I really like how lupin put that. Again, to me it's not so black and white though. I'm okay with somebody teaching something similar and allowing them some rank, but not something totally different. In the end I suppose to each their own. The ideas just very interesting

FYI, this type of training can benefit you short term and for a relatively small time into the future but eventually those hardening techniques turn to arthritic techniques. We also know more these days about our bodies and the fact is that these type of impact style of training affect your body in a negative way. I'm 38, the last few months I have been training on a heavy bag, I started noticing about 2 months ago that I was getting hand tremors and of course I started researching it online trying to figure out what it could be, was I diabetic, was it something in my mind, I stopped hitting the heavy bag for a while and to my surprise and disappointment the tremors went away, it is my disappointment because hitting the bag is part of my training lol.

I can really see the other side perspective even more so the way everybody is putting it, but I still feel it's not ok and it doesn't really make sense. I was ranked prior to starting at my most recent school, I didnt carry rank. I did however, move through the ranks quicker then some, and it even made people jealous. There were some students that really treated me bad for it. I don't disagree with moving somebody along or even ranking them at a higher rank later if they are on that path but this is a different situation of course. To me, if it was even a similar style but not the same I wouldn't think much of it and it would make sense. If it was a shotokan school for example and they took over much of the main curriculum would be the same , but a radically different system just doesn't make sense to me. The polls are still split pretty evenly though, I suppose if people except it, it can't be that wrong.

Lol were still friends sensei, mostly because that's how I feel lol. I like all the input though. I can reallly appreciate how dwx, jr137 and really everybody put it. It's a bit different since they didn't seek it out, but this is a good reason to train in an art that you can find elsware for this exact reason. I think about it like this, I'm a black belt with the first program, should I go and see if I can maintain same rank in kenpo? I don't want it, the rank itself means very little to me, and I won't learn anything from the paper certificate, and I missed a great deal of the lessons skipping right to black belt. Just doesn't work for me personally but I'm glad to see others express their opinions openly, weather we agree or not. The poll reflects a split believe here. I didn't vote because I didn't want to vote on my own poll but it's clear I'm against it. Edit; I'd like to add, from my old instructors standpoint I can understand as he wanted to not leave everybody hanging and losing out on rank, and to be able to continue. May be hard, not all schools will take you even if your the same style. In tang soo do the first question you will hear is "what association were you with" when trying to maintain rank. I get it, and I would ha e respected it more, and had no problem if it was a tang soo do school, but not a very different t art. For those that don't know, kenpo is very much like kung fu with fast repetitive strikes, TSD is more traditional like shotokan but with a taekwondo sort of desire to kick. It's just not the same. Just don't roll for me.

Now, I agree with what you're saying if you were to run a school. I'm basically saying the same thing. On my website I indicate that I will potentially take people in transferring in from another school, but I'm very clear that rank will be determined by me. I run my school in this manner, there is the main curriculum in which you must know to pass in rank, then there a supplemental curriculum in which we practice different techniques whether it be self defense or kicking drills that are not a requirement. If somebody comes from another school that has similar main curriculum then ranking them the same could be fairly easy, or at least within a rank below or so. When I started teaching I retained some of the students from the previous program, I kept them at the same rank but the curriculum was very similar even though I had changed a fair amount of it, even this has proven to be difficult moving forward. I just cannot imagine taking a wing chun kung fu practiotoner in at same rank, knowing really nothing of what other students learn and are required to know. Then they leave in a month, or a week, or whatever, and they show a certificate in your system as that rank, in that system. Obviously it would be very much not genuine rank, and this is why rank in itself becomes not the end all be all for me personally, just because you say I am does not mean I am and sometimes I am even though you do not say I am. Personally I could not do it, if you are a true martial artist then you should expect that taking a new martial arts leaves you starting from the beginning, because burning the rank should not be what it's all about and you should not be okay with missing many of the early on lessons in that art, the beginning is where most students get the strongest foundation and without that what do they have?

So the most recent place I trained at is where I really learned to teach, my instructor was a very talented instructor and taught me many things, he was also extremely professional and so I'm thankful I got to train under him as an instructor in training. He is leaving for Japan because of personal reasons and will no longer be teaching in Arizona after more than 10 years of teaching here So, this is the school teaches tang soo do as a primary art just as I have decided to do, he also mixes in Arts just as I have decided to do but Kenpo karate is not one of them. There is a Kempo Karate School coming to take over his location and in an attempt to retain as many students as possible they have decided to allow students to maintain same rank in their system. Now listen, I will take students at higher rank or even sometimes same rank if they come to me and they have rank in a similar system such as shotokan, tang soo do, or my old system of tong che bahk do. I would not though, as an example take a student that was a red belt in Taekwondo and give him the same rank because there are no rank requirements that are similar enough to give them same rank. So as the title states, how can I possibly respect this Kempo Karate School for coming in and allowing students to maintain same rank in a completely different system. Obviously there is no true martial art intent behind this and this is 100% business and money driven. How can I possibly respect it? You are going to have students whom claim a certain rank in kenpo and even after their first test may know some of the art, but to rank them in that art when they have not earned it in that Arts and they do not truly know that Arts to me seems absolutely ridiculous. Typically my judgement is not quite so harsh, in this case I just can't make myself okay with the idea, and although it does not affect me, because I came from that school I can't help but feel annoyed at such money driven agendas. What are your guys thoughts on something like this? Love to hear some.

I use moosoolsa. They have a selection of tang soo do uniforms although I actually use the Hapkido style as their selection is bigger. In general their selection is small but They can customize the uniforms a great deal such as different colored lepel , and different colored uniforms. They can even put kung fu style tasles on the bottom.They are located in Korea however and shipping to US is rouphly 25 dollar. Just a thought. Usually a week or two tops for a custom order. High quality stuff.

Well, I'm left handed so I fight left hand back, the way a box or would. I switch often however, switching my feet to disrupt any potential rhythm that my opponent could gather from my striking. In Jeet Kune Do the concept is strong side forward and I can certainly respect that stands as I practice the art some, but my right side, which is my weak side is way too fast do not use it as a lead attack. In class whether it be Taekwondo or karate I was always taught to practice from both sides so so in essence that is what I will try to do is attack from both sides. I injured my knee about 2 months ago doing a kick and it's just not healing the way I'd like to see it, it happens to be the leg that I predominantly used for kicking so I'm a bit stressed out about it as I'm sure everybody would understand, it has forced me to accept that I need to use it as a base leg for now and use my left leg much more. The bad news is I can't kick as well with it, the good news is I can't kick as well with it lol. What I mean is if I keep getting with it it should become my good leg. Being injured on one of my good striking sides really makes me think to put emphasis on the fact that you should practice both sides.

Haha, probably not effective from a business standpoint.

We live in a town of about 15,000 to 20,000, depending on when college is in session. Our town is about 4 miles across in each direction. In this small area, we have our TKD school, a Karate school, an Aikido school that also has a BJJ club sponsored by the college and a fellow that teaches what he calls 3-in-1, a blend of TKD and BJJ and Hapkido. That school is around the corner from ours. The college also has a Defensive Tactics club, which I am a part of. All are within a few minutes drive of each other. Phoenix in general is pretty hefty with martial arts schools. I'm pretty used to what your describing. I think any businesses can coexist as long as there is respect, ESPECIALLY in one like ours.

If you open in a rec center or a church or something of that nature, it's unlikely you will lose money but that all depends on what you set your profit to be, if I spend money on tons of equipment and things like that I'd lose money too. My first month in business, I only made $260.00. It takes time and don't be discouraged, but you should not lose money.

You should be very proud of these numbers!! You're showing increases more than you're showing decreases; which of course, is normal to expect...but you're student body is growing. Do you have a number in mind that you'd like to reach?? Yes thanks. I am proud but still want more lol. The last program was there 9 years and held between 30 and 33 very often so I'm doing ok . I'd like about 50, I do 4 classes so that's just over 12 in each so not a crazy figure. An thanks sparticus maximus also, I work really hard for those numbers. I am constantly trying to revamp my program to make it better while trying to keep the integrity of it and stay consistent. I have worked out a couple deals for some women self defense classes, this is a first time thing for me. I have always been very self defense minded when it comes to martial arts as I got my start wanting to learn it because of the area I lived in, so I'm hoping to be successful with the women's self defense enough so that it will offset some of the pressure on my karate teaching.

So, I contisuosly update the first post with my numbers . Part of the reason I do it is that I'm so bad at bookkeeping that for a while this was the only record lol. The other, is that I think it's a cool thing to share with the karate forums community, to watch the progression from day one on. It's putting my business out there a bit, and sometimes in doing that it's hard because not everything is everybkdies buisness BUT I always like to push myself to be open about things. 34 students, I'd like to see 40 at this point but I'm thankful for my success thus far so I'm not complaining , just pushing. • 1st month - 7 students • 2nd month - 14 students • 3rd month - 20 students • 4th month - 20 students • 5th month - 21 students • 6th month - 31 students • 7th month - 26 students • 8th month - 33 students • 9th month - 37 students • 10th month - 31 students • 11th month - 34 students

I agree with the last few statements. I don't feel that two programs can't exist in close quarters without issues. I have always (almost always) lived in or near big cities. Seeing martial arts studios so glad to one a other is more then common at times, it can be rediculous. This is nothing new. For me personally I don't have issues with any person, or business that shows respects. Now I realise in America we lack a great deal of respect it seems as a whole sometimes but we all want respect, so giving it should be a given. Advertising in a neighboring studios parking lot, or through a social media outlet where they shouldn't be is not showing respect. That's ok too, as long as you know that's the way things are then you are free to do the same. My words to "said dojo"... you better be a driven program because I show up every class, I get better every class, and I show the ability to not only keep them, but to grow steadily. Be aware, If you constantly post about there being no class and telling people you will explain later on Facebook, and anounce every time a person is no longer affiliated with your organization through social media, you may want to rethink your position, because a battle of the dojo's is hardly a battle if there's only an indomitable will to succeed from the instructor at one of them. Hypothetical of course

First off congradulations on the approval. This makes things much easier then going off on your own as i did. Im not sure whee you live but im sure it will matter as far as where to teach. I live in pheonix az. In the greater phoenix area its really tough finding a place. One certsinly can find a place but it takes persistance. So i started my own school at a rec center only 11 months ago, i couldnt find a place very easily but once my school pulled out of the rec center they were teaching at, i took it. It was lucky timing. Elementry schools are very hard to find out here that dont already have a prigram but they are a great way ti go because the student base is on the property already. Churches? I have seen a few programs here and there but any time i have called a church they werent interested in a profit making program using their facility. Rec centers can also be great, and mine only takes 10 percent from me and i keep the rest. They dont bother me at all, sone are a little different even here in phienix so again, wherever your at may or may not be the similar. I turned down a rec center near my home because they wanted to take 30 percent and that left me charging a good deal more then my other location just to make the same after their cut. Id say as hard as it is be patient and find whats right, i have been looking for a great second location for months and nothing yet. Just because im curious… will you be testing the students? Will you take only a percentage of tuition? Will you have help in class at all?. If any of these questions are invasive please dont answer and i wont be offended. Just looking to offer advice thats all. Oh sorry, and to your questions the facility follows guidlines based on state laws. Here in AZ, you mist have insurance to teach. You must also have current cpr & first aid certification. You must also have a baclround check (in AZ you mist have an arizona fingerprint clearence card which is thorough.) The insurance needed in a rec center is typically only "instructor insurance" and NOT "school insurance". For me this was only around $350 for the year. The school insurance was around $750 so glad i didnt need that. Cpr and first aid typically done in a 4 hour class for around 30 bucks and your good for 2 years. Backround i cant remember if i paid but took a grlew weeks. Hope i helped with at least something in your indevor. Good luck.

I don't think rank should be the determining factor of when you open a school, I know a few first dans that ran programs as the head instructor at that school, while the testings work done through the head instructor at a stand-alone location. But either way, everybody's idea of what makes you a 1st 2nd or 3rd degree black belt is different so i say more power to any first degree black belt that step out and run a school.

No for sure, i didnt intend to sound agressive about that part, just the way i wrote it sorry lol. like I said I didn't like how he went about it. I appreciate the input.

Haha, that's funny. That certainly would be an interesting way of handling it.

Thanks guys, first off I've never insecure and I'm not afraid of the competition, like I said it's just the way he was promoting which was essentially challenging my business on the city recreation Facebook page which is obviously who cuts me my checks and he is not affiliated with the city. I have spoken with the people at the Recreation Department and they agreed he should not be able to but for some reason can't get their lazy butts to remove the post. That's obviously a separate issue that I need to stay on them for. As for having a conversation with him I'm really torn because I don't want to cause any drama, the type of guy that he seems to be by posting where he knows there's already a program and but people are people I guess. They are, as for bashing him I would never do that. What you're describing is just a general rule of business that I follow. I call it class. I left my last studio on somewhat bad terms with the instructor and took over his previous location. There was some animosity but I never once spoke bad about him, in fact even to this day I speak very highly of him. I would never speak bad about this gentleman either, but as both of you have seem to understand I would if it came down to it, attack the area. As of now I do not engage in promoting on that corner where he is located or in the shopping center that he is located. I will say this, attacking his area vigorously with promotion of my business is something I would do if I feel that there was no other solution to prevent him from attacking my particular student base. Even that sounds cutthroats but I would be willing to go there the more I think about it because I feel like this is the path that he chose with me. I suppose the right thing to do before any of that takes place though, is to speak with him and give him an opportunity to back down about the particular Avenue in which is promoting and stepping on my toes. At that point I suppose, the right thing to do would then be to aggressively promote, even thought how funny it would be to post some kind of karate school demonstration in his parking lot lol. The thing is he's in a public parking lot, the recreation center is city property and I really don't believe he would be allowed to do the same in mine. The thing is, as he has been there for only a little while I really found it interesting and somewhat disrespectful that he even moved on the same street, however I was not in an uproar about it, this is America and he can teach where he wants, the way I look at it is if I teach what I teach and I'm confident in my ability that I should not worry about anybody else, as the point of this all, using my recreation center whether it be on the premises or through the internet as an outlet for his business promotion is crossing a line though

I am a 3rd dan, run my own school and I am going to promote my first two 2nd dans in February. I'm working on 4th dan and have no problem grading a student to the rank below mine. I can't imagine why a student can only go 2 ranks below an instructor but everybody is certainly entitled to their own way of doing things. Grading is always done by me and my wife alone, no panel of martial artist sits at a table with me, just my wife who is a 1st dan. As an example, wastelander... I saw your videos and your instructor who specializes in forms (sorry forgot the name) is outstanding at them. Very crisp technique, very nice to watch. I enjoy forms but I'm afraid I'm just not as good as he is. I'm only 38 years old and not 65 so I'm still working towards becoming that great at them. I could care less what rank he is, if I was a beginner I would certainly want to learn from him even if your particular school called him a 1st Dan and he couldnt grade me to Black Belt, I still want to learn from him. This is where rank itself is not as important to me. It's something else I'm after, greatness! Rank does not always translate to the word greatness. Side note to wastelander, I was in a martial arts supply store searching for a missing belt for a testing I had coming up because I had made a mistake on my order, I saw a flyer posted and I recognized his name which for the life of me I can't remember at the moment. It was a letter looking for instructors to teach at schools, small world good luck to him.

So here's a good one. This place that opened up near me is now using the city Facebook recreation page to promote his buisness, the very same recreation page in which posts my program. As to respect being what us traditional martial artist hold a standard and often set the tone, I ask all of you what is your approach? For a quick refresh, a guy teaching the same martial art (I teach it as the base and integrate other styles but essentially the same) opened up at a fitness center so close I could throw a baseball into the parking lot. The city told me they would delete it but haven't after a few days of talking with them. I posted right on top of it about being the official recreation martial arts program and that we came from the previous program that was there 9 years, in hopes that be would get the message. I'm left with a decision of playing the same game... flyers in his parking lot and so on, OR contacting him directly. So I ask again... What would you do???