delta1

CSA, most people are either going to tell you to A) do what they do, or b)do what they saw at the movies. You need to find what suits you, both in the style and the class. Don't worry about your physical build. Most martial arts can be adapted to anyone. Worry about what you want out of the art. You've said weapons and contact. But do you want a lot of tradition, self improvement, hard sport contact, or self defense? Do you want some grappling with the striking, internal principles, or maybe just a quick close quarters combat course? Next it would help if you told us what is available in your area, and what your plans are. Are you pretty well set there, or are you moving to someplace like Fallon, Nevada (not many schools there ). Also, take your time deciding. Look in on all the schools in your area. Take a few introductory lessons. See what feels right to you. Let us know. There is a lot of good experience here in a lot of different systems. And we are a pretty helpful lott.

That's what happens when you get a bunch of ma's from different systems talking about things! You hear all these terms, and it gets confusing when you think you've heard it used one way somewhere, but the other guy uses it different- or maybe you were just wrong... now I'm really confused! Any way,at least I didn't jump in with a bunch of absolute statements this time and further embarrass myself! But a good discussion, eh!

Yep. We're envisioning different positions and angles, which changes everything. The kick is a regular roundhouse, but if you contour the angle of the back of his thigh to the top of his calf and drive that kick through, you can blow his knee and drive him to the ground on that injured knee. That's more what I was asking about. Thanks. The reverse stance is an outward leg buckle. Your left leg in this case would step in between his legs and then you turn so that it is straight. It is in contact at his right knee (or at his right ankle if you kick back into the stance) so turning out and straightening the leg forces his leg to buckle or slide outward. This will unballance him and cause a slight drop in his height, making your upward/backward (obscure) elbow strike more effective and harder to slip. It's not. That is a specialty strike, seldom used like it is practiced in basics, and should be looked at more as an extreme range or application of a basic strike. But in extremely close, it can be useful to artificially gain distance for a strike. Not enough room in front of you? Go around!

Nick, I was just editing to ask him some questions. I'm sure I'm missing something here, as I can't see a hard contact ring fighter leaving himself so open. Be interesting to hear how they do this.

Oh, yeah- that 'chicken wing block he mentioned... Stand in a left foot forward fighting stance (any style). Put your left arm down at your side. Now, as you pivot right on the ball of yur left foot and drop your syance, bring the thumb of your left hand right up along the seam or your trousers until it is up like an elbow strike to a high target. This is a good strike, but can also be used effectively as a block. Problem in this case wouldbe that, since he threw a hook, his momentum is already torqueing to his right, ccw. Since you pivoted your stance for the block, your whole left side and back are exposed- especially your leg and knee! A downward looping roundhouse shin kick, similar to the Muay Thai kicks, could cripple you for life. That's not to mention possibly donating a kidney on the spot, cracked ribs, ...! HandSword, sinceyou kickbox, I'd guess you are familiar with the kick I'm talking about. When you do the chicken wing block, do you move toward the punching arm, or some other maneuver to negate the angle required for his counter/kick? I immagine the block goes a little more back and out than the 'ideal' block I described. I can envision this working with a reversed stance to take out his base- we practice that as a strike. The elbow takes his chin as he drops from your stance spreading his base. But the angles would have to change to do it as a block. How do you guys practice it?

Hooks are hard to see comeing sometimes.Often, they are another strike that missed or was intercepted, then converted to a hook without loss of flow. Checking against them is generally the best defense. A check anticipates a possible action, but doesn't concentrate on that action so as to leave you vulnerable to something else. That's why when you step in instead of out, the check is really just where the hand ends up from your elbow strike. The block was really a strike to his right shoulder, checking his momentum and momentarily upseting his equilibrium. His internal reaction is to move slightly forward to regain ballance. Being a Wing Chunner, I assume you'd react in the same way we do to this- crane and pull with the left, taking advantage of that internal reaction to really mess up his equilibrium and pull him into a strike with the returning motion of your right. I like a whipping backfist.Once again, the path of the right elbow is a clearing check. I really hate WCers who switch to Kenpo. They pick up on these concepts so fast, they are a pain to spar with. See what I mean!? Step back and block is mostly yellow belt stuff- begginers level. As you advance, you work techniques that move in and control him. Then the relationships to the first techniques are explored, and you find that it is mostly the same motions with a little sophistication and timeing. I'd agree about the 'madness', but I'll let you guys argue that point. We have enough to argue about amongst ourselves, without getting into WC's internal squabbles as well!

Similar to what we'd call an 'obscure elbow', which is both a strike and a block. You could use this, but hooks can be tricky to see comeing. Also, use it indiscrimently and you leave yourself open to a roundhouse shin kick anywhere on your 'blocking' side. Another reason I prefer the defense I listed to an upward elbow block (though I'm not restricted to it) is that it puts me inside his guard, in control of his space and his weapons, where everything I do is a strike. My strikes just happen to inhibit his strikes. Hold your left hand up in front of your nose, ridge hand (thumb side) touching the nose and palm facing right. Drop your right hand down to any position you want- even hanging by your side. Now, quickly raise your right hand, making a fist, to strike the palm of your hand with the knuckles toward your nose. Elbow comes up high, and this strike makes a really tight arc up into position. You've just thrown an inverted roundhouse or hook. Many systems throw hooks with a lot of body rotation, and they hook from the start. They can go to head or body, or sometimes even to the legs. We do this as we torque into a close kneel or lunge stance. Hooks can start as straight punches, then the elbow arcs up and the strike converts to a hook. Same with a roundhouse. That's one reason we double factor a block to a roundhouse. You can even convert an uppercut to a hook. Just turn on the ball of the punching side foot and bring the elbow up. The arc does give speed, as well as torque, any time you do a hook.

Good advertising. And many 'martial artists' are allways looking for that 'ultimate style' instead of looking more deeply into what they already do. This has been one of my problems with KM from the first time I saw it. Their gun and knife defenses will likely get you killed. In fact, with many of them you will likely kill yourself. I allways qualify my statements about it by saying that I havn't seen a lot of KM, and may not have seen the best examples of the system. Krav Maga is a quickly learned cqc (close quarters combat) system, and as such was not meant to be the 'ultimate art'. It is meant to be easily and quickly learned as an adjunct and applied by people whose primary methods of fighting involve firearms and team work. There are other cqc courses out there. But this one is exotic, used by Israeli forces, so it must be good. I'd say if you are interested in KM, check out the school and their methods of instruction, and their techniques. Take an experienced fighter with you if you can, and don't make any decissions until you've talked with him alone. Same should apply to any school or system you are interested in. There are (sadly) bad WC schools, bad AK schools, and just bad schools.

Good question. I don't remember anyone talking about this hee before now (at least as its' own topic). First, hooks can be thrown as a hook, or as other strikes converted to a hook. Their purpose is mainly to get around your defense. They can be thrown from any striking distance, including right on the end of the punchers nose. In our basics, we practice inverted hooks this way- the punch is palm out and the knuckles just brush the end of your nose. I know WC doesn't like reverse gear, but it is easier to see how to defend this by first backing up. As your opponent throws either a right roundhouse or hooking punch to your head, step back with yur right foot into a fighting stance and execute a left outward block to the punch. Now, if that's all you do, the punch will hook around the block and hit you. Also, the block may not get there in time anyhow. So as you are steping back, your right should come up in a hard outward parry motion to just above the left shoulder. This is a check in case the strike hooks, as you won't see it hook in until it is too late. The check then circles down to guard or check at your mid section, unless it makes contact with the punch, in which case it will momentarily pause. If you want to get in, or stay in really close, simply collapse this structure. The block becomes a strike to his shoulder to unballance him and check his deapth (forward motion) and width (rotational motion). The right hand still checks the hook, but the right elbow is now an upward/inward strike to his jaw. Also, you've moved the target just enough with your foot maneuver or stance change, whichever was required to put you in proper position for the 'defense'. The path of the elbows travel is a clearing check to his left hand, and any time you are in that close your base should be checking his base. Sounds positively 'Wing Chunnie', doesn't it?

So, your sayin I cant spel ether! Actually, the reason I say that is that Shotokan is usually very well drilled in their basics, and they work understanding (bunkai)- or at least the good ones do. The Tracy's left Ed Parker early on to mass market Kenpo, before it was anywhere near finished. They added techniques and took some forms from Okinawan systems, which have beautiful flow. But their understanding was shallow, and that was passed on somewhat in the system. A lot of times, they tend to use flow with techniques where it was not meant to be used. Also, a lot of them tend to be into pulling up techniques and running them instead of learning what they teach and working with it- and they have far more techniques than any EPAK system out there. They also have less structure, which Shotokan does not lack. Tracy's is not a bad system, but it has some shortcomings that need to be worked out. At least, that's my opinion. Bet you guys never thought you'd hear me say that! By the way, I'm like the Cajun guy is about religion; I don't want to run anyone elses down, but I belong to seven of them so I go ahead any way! I have done some Tracy's, though I can't claim a lot of experience in it. I have to admit that some of those extra forms are sweet, though. Boy do they flow! And working them as two man forms you get a real feel for how they work. I just wish that they'd put a little more understanding into what they teach and do.

... about practicing your carry and proper deployment if you choose to carry a firearm or other weapon? This was sent to me by someone else, and I'm trying to stop laughing long enough to pass it on to you! http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/weaponretention.gif !WARNING!: the posts contain some foul (but funny) language! If some of you digital wizzards can get the video isolated and send me the info, I'll try to edit the post and just leave the vid, without comments. Or, if it is at all complex, send it to a mod and let them edit it- I won't be offended! Edit: now my wife and son are rolling around on the floor! Classic! Edited: the link is changed. Thanks Hudson.

http://www.mckennonlawfirm.com/KENPOKAN/kenpokan.htm This is the only one I could find. I havn't looked thoroughly at their site, but I think they combine Shotokan and Tracy's Kenpo. That should be an interesting mix, since Shotokan is not noted for its' flow and Tracy's system often has too much flow. But both are good systems, though I'll be burned as a heritic for saying that Shotokan probably has the edge on Tracy's Kenpo.

American Kenpo schools often do this. It's called a tip test when you test for the intermediate stripe. Its' purpose is to formally review your progress halfway through the belt level. I don't know though... . I guess it doesn't really bother me. But I don't care for extra tests and stripes, even though I don't know of any schools that charge for this. Heck, I don't really care about belts either, though. Augh! I'm rambling here. Nothing wrong with it. I'm just too used to my grey belt with no stripes.

I was establishing a relationship between the two. Every one learns different, and agood teacher should recognize that and work with it on an individual basis. But, regardless, his teaching methods will never be great if he doesn't pass on both skills and knowlege. His students will allwaysjust be a shadow of him. And a student will never be good unless he applies himself to both skills and understanding, regardless how good or great an instructor may be.

One last thought. We've discussed what makes a great instructor here before. My view was (and is) that the thing that sets a great instructor apart from a good instructor is the unwavering desire to give his students the tools they need to become better than he is. The only way you can do this is with understanding, not just physical skills and experience. Without a good understanding, the student can never pass the teacher, and will in fact allways be less. Teachers, masters, and founders are not gods. To treat them as such disrespects them, you, and anyone you teach or help. To bypass them, with respect and humility, should be a source of great honor for them. Moe simply put, every coach wants to coach the winning team. He doesn't have to play.

SevenStar- as usual, we're not that far apart. It's just that I'm a ( ! ) and you're a @#^* !

I have a Century heavy weight and a medium weight, plus an old light weight. If I could only keep one, it would be the medium weight. It is the most dureable of the three. I bought the heavyweight a little large, but it is still the most restrictive of the three. The medium weight works well in all temperatures, where hard workouts in summer heat can be grueling in a heavyweight ghi. In cooler conditions, you may want to find an insulated cup to use with a lightweight ghi.

Same color as my ghi- since they were dyed in the same vat. I chose it because it matches my hair (which is grey with age), and because it is no recognized color of rank in any system I've come across.

"Chin/jaw" Since I have to pick only one. For a preemptive strike, probably an upward elbow to the chin. Devastating strike, and it gets me in close enough to control his base, occupy his space and take his ballance. It also sets me up for quick follow up strikes and takedowns, if they are still necessary after that initial strike.

I think what he's saying is that you can learn to fight better with proper understanding. If that's the case, I agree. So, I think, do the Gracies, the Russians, the Greeks, the Japanese, ... I agree with you somewhat, but I think you are missing the point here. The idea isn't to reinvent grappling. It is to look for the similarities with what you already do and make them work together better. That's far easier to do if you have some good grappling training in a system like BJJ that focuses a lot on the concepts involved in their art, and if your standup style also focuses on understanding principles and concepts. Another option is to find a teacher who knows both and train under him. Another thing to consider is that working standup techniques on the ground may not prepare you adequately to deal with a grappler on the ground. As you point out, he's a specialist at it, and you're playing his game. But it will give you a much better chance if a street situation goes to the ground. If that's all he does, then yes, it is wrong. But if he gives you the tools and has you work it out on your own, and helps to guide and assist and critique, then it is the best way to learn anything. Show me something,and it is really cool for that specific situation. Help me figure it out for myself, and I've internalized the knowlege and the physical technique. I understand it well enough to instinctively use it in any similar circumstance, regardless of variations. Figureing it out for yourself involves both physical and mental training and discipline. You are training a method of thought as well as a system of motion to an instinctive level. Just going through the moves you are shown is no better than just walking through a kata. I doubt that is the way you train. But it is too easy to assign that fallacty to others. We tend to think in terms of absolutes when assessing what the other guy does, while we see the intricacies of what we do. This of course reinforces our tendencies to exocentrisim(*). I agree with you, and have said so to you in a few discussions here- if you want to get humbled, get on the mat with a good grappler. But I'd expand that to say get on the mat with any good practitioner of any system- especially if it is one you disrespect. Sometimes, it can almost give you a zenocentric(*) viewpoint on the arts! *exocentrism is the tendency of people to believe that their culture or way of doing things is superior to all others. zenocentrism is the (unhealthy) view that others are better than your own. I think the best way to view life, and the martial arts, is that I like my culture and my way of doing things- but the other guy's culture and the other arts are interesting and effective. Often I can learn more about myself from their perspective, or better methods from their areas of strength- both culturally and artistically. Not bad for an ultra conservative, ornery, striking ( ! ), huh?

Speaking from very limmited experience, but from what I've seen BJJ is a more sport (though a very rough sport) oriented art than some other grappling systems. I had a chance to work with some strikers who also studied BJJ, Sambo and Pancration last summer. It seemed to me that the latter two put a lot more emphasis on striking in their ground work- and consequently a lot more emphasis and awareness of it as well. BJJ seemed to be easier to reach with strikes on the ground, but very effective with their locks andsubmissions. On the other hand, the Sambo guys had some great counters to a lot of their moves. One Sambo fighter (their school is very street/combat oriented) taught us one of the counters he did on a BJJer. They were on their backsides, facing each other, and the BJJer had the Sambo guy's right foot in his left armpit, left arm wrapedand putting a lot of pressure on his achiles tendon. He leaned back into the lock, and almost before any ofus saw what was happening the Samboka (da?) was kneeling above him, landing a strike that would have killed him if he'd done it for real. The secret to that counter is that as soon as he applies the lock, you turn your foot to 10:00 and tighten it up. As he rears back with the lock, his own leverage pulls you up and on top of him. The 10:00 position of your foot anatomically sets up your lower leg to handle the pressure. Who'd hae thought that a bunch ofmud rollers would knowanything about anatomy and useing principles? My point is, they all know their stuff, and all are a little different in the concepts they emphasize to apply those principles. So don't get too overconfident that you can handle a grappler on the ground. American Kenpo is primarily a street defense art, though it is adaptable enough for sport or to be used with any kind of system. But if you plan on playing the ground fighters game, you'd better either make a real study of ground fighting or be prepared to eat a lot of pain. doubletwist, what your school is doing is excellent, and I envy you having a school right there that is willing to put in the effort to train ground fighting. But we all have to realistically * our strengths and weaknesses. Going against a decent ground fighter for real and getting taken to the ground is a bad deal. You stand a better chance with your training. But you should do every thing possible not to go there, short of shooting him. On second thought, blow his butt into the next dimension!

Ballance, grasshoppa! Instructor should teac you the basics and the principles. Students should apply themselves to learning these correctly. Instructor should work on teaching students to think through things on their own, working them out both physically and mentally. Students should apply themselves to these skills as well. Instructor should watch and * each student, steping in to correct or nudge them in the right direction in both basic practice and in their understanding and knowlege. Students should try to work things out, listen when the instructor corrects or lectures, and ask questions when they need help. Balance, in all things!

New TOW is up, and has a couple of examples of what we're talking about. Mr. Tatum starts with his right blocking arm up for the demo, but you can start with your arm in any position, even down if you double factor. But notice how his block to the kick forces the opponent to plant where he wants. As a defense, the block is worthless because he moved. Its' sole purpose was to force the plant. In the change up, Mr. Tatum talks about the pressing check (which could be done as a block also) keeping him from moving forward and canceling your sweep. But it also protects you from a strike with his lead hand/arm, as well as controling him. In Kenpo, we think in terms of dimensional control. The pressing check controls his deapth, aresting forward movement and possibly pushing him back and off ballance. It also checks his width, momentarily preventing him from turning. Height is checked to the extent that he is off ballance and momentarily unable to drop his height, or settle into a stance. All the three dimensions of a physical object are momentarily controlled or checked. You'll hear Mr. Tatum mention 'directional harmony'. This is the concept that all your movements should work together in the same direction so as not to fight themselves. All his motion and the force of his strikes are moving in the same direction. (Yes, we use opposing forces, or what some systems call push-pull. They have directional harmony, even though acting in opposite directions, but this is a little more into the theory than I want to go right now.) Notice how these moves are simultaneouse and support each other. This is also an example of thinking through the base technique, considering the what iffs and possible problems, and working out ways to make the technique work better. I think Mr. Parker realized that those who figure these things out for themselves internalize the knowlege better than those who are spoon fed everything. That is how AK is taught. Mr. Tatum only gave an example to get us started thinking. But with what he said and what I've added, we've only scratched the surface of what this technique teaches. Any way, here's the clip. Enjoy! http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week36/TipOfTheWeekMedW36.html

Well, it's good to know I'm not alone! Heck, my dogs think I'm ok, so why should I worry about this any how!?

I havn't had anything like what you describe. But I've hadseveral leg injuries, and I have to agree with, and emphasize, what Shorin Ryuu said about physical therapy. Stick with it and do as they tell you. I've found that you never completely recover from seriouse injuries. But you can minimizethe long term dammage. Conversely, you can make it worse. Trust me, it's better to put up with the pain and agrivation now than deal with a more seriouse condition later. And don't be in a big roaring hurry to get back on the mats! Err on the side of caution while recovering and while working back into training. Fortunately you do American Kenpo, so there is still a lot you can do now. Go to classes and observe. Take notes. Read as much of the EPAK literature as you can get ahold of. Work on your personal notebook of techniques. Class is also a good place to do some of the exercises your physical therapist or doctor might give you. It's an environment you are used to working out and stretching in, and it will make you feel more involved than just a spectator. Try not to think of this as just downtime, but rather an opportunity to observe (a lot of third party perspective), and to work on the mental parts of the art. Possibly start to meditate. Keep yourmind and, as much as possible your body, actively engaged in Kenpo. Hope it all works out well for you. Good luck!