delta1

Most AK schools base rank on skill level and understanding. None of them I've seen promote quickly, though. And I'm an intermediate level Kenpoist, not a black belt. If you are at brown, you're probably senior to me. My belt is gray, my knowlege varries, and my skills are suffering some with age. Best answer I can give you is the example of Bill Wallace. His trademark, which earned him his nickname of Superfoot, was his kicks. Fast, powerful, accurate, and allways thrown with the same foot. The other leg was dammaged. It worked well for him, BUT it wasn't all he could do. He was an excellant, well rounded karateka, and could set you up for those kicks with other techniques or moves. And he had other offenses for different situations or opponents. Maybe something like this is what your instructor is getting at.

Sinar89, I'm not sure where you got your information. But it is inacurate. Jujitsu has more standup grappling than ground work. And the Kenpo/Kempo systems all concentrate far more on stand up fighting than on ground work. This is especially true of American Kenpo. But even Kempojujutsu is primarily a stand up art. American Kenpo is primarily a street self defense oriented system, and very effective. And most of the rest of the Kempo family of styles are pretty effective as well. I've also seen a lot of other schools, some of which are disrespected by others (like TKD) which are taught as a verry effective fighting system. I've also seen good systems taught poorly. So my advice is to keep an open mind and check out all the schools in your area, and pick one that you think trains realistically and that suits you. By the way, I disagree that all, or even the vast majority of fights will end up with even one person on the ground, let alone both. But the vast majority of fights do start standing up, and almost none start on the ground. Groundwork is important, but I think standup is more important, which includes standup grappling. Just my opinion.

You already take the 'ultimat art'. All that is in AK, plus weapons, locks, and ground fighting. There are several other ma's that are complete as well: probably Silat, some FMA's, Hapkido, Taijiquan fa, ...; the list could get pretty long. And, really, if what you study teaches what you want, and works for you and is enjoyable to you, wouldn't that be the 'ultimate' style for you? Heck, I love 'em all. But Kenpo is my passion and my base. Others have different tastes and needs, and I'm glad they do. I love comparing notesand methods with different stylists, then applying it all back to Kenpo.

Not sure what to say to that. On the surface, I'd have to disagree with him. But before I jump to conclusions (my trademark technique here ), what is he trying to get across? Is he excluding other techniques? Is he talking about techniques in the regular Kenpo sense, or just some moves that work well for you and that you perfect better than others? Is there a deep understanding of what these techniques teach and do, or is it just a sparing gimmick? Need some more info before giving a good answer. And you need to understand the point he's making; what he's trying to accomplish here. Let us know.

Tricks...? You mean, like secrets? Hmmm... . Chuck Sullivan tells a story about the evening that Ed Parker taught his senior students the 'secrets of Kenpo'. After regular class, he kept only his most senior students behind. He locked the doors, closed the blinds, and told them it was time for them to learn the secrets. He started out by drilling them very hard on their basics for over an hour and a half. They were all about dead, tired and sweating. But it was worth it to them. They'd been waiting for this a long time, and no one was going to give up until they had those secrets. Then, Mr. Parker told them all that those were the secrets of Kenpo. Solid basics, above all else. Tricks? The right basics instinctively applied at the right time in the appropriate situation.

No, but it can be a lot of fun! Unfortunately, it is also illegal to beat drunks in public. You should allways take him out back first!

American Kenpo? If so, it's not that unusual in that the system was designed to be modified to fit the practitioner. But it is also a very practical, well ballanced system, characterized by both speed and power and use of both upper and lower body- in fact, the whole body, and often different parts simultaneously. That is a little unusual, as Kenpo avoids giving up your base, as in jumping kicks. Vince Lombardi once said that "Any time you put the football in the air, three things can happen ..., and two of them are bad!" Same with our feet. We don't like to get them too far off the ground, and usually only one at a time, at that. But, everyone is different. Nah! Kenpo does everything TKD does except the high, fancy kicks, plus a lot more. And Kenpo stresses understanding a lot more than TKD. I like TKD. One of my favorite diversions is to take TKD moves and 'Kenpoize' them, then combine them into techniques. Personally, I think that is how TKD should be taught any how, and some of the TKD schools in my region do teach it that way. I've worked out with them, and they can be really tough opponents. I don't know how long you've been in the martial arts,so this may not apply to you. But, a lot of begginers tend to kick more because they are trying to keep their opponents at bay. I've seen some senior TKD students who are stuck in this mode as well. Problem is, whether TKD or Kenpo, if you can't work in close, and someone bridges the gap, you're dead. Other people just like to kick. I used to fight one TKD BB who was good. Often I'd get in close only to be launched across the room by a side kick! He could throw that kick from close contact range, and it was effective! But he could also use his hands and stances in close to distract or keep you busy and set you up. So, even in TKD, you need some ballance. Teams that can only throw the football well may eat up a lot of yardage. But they also get intercepted a lot. If that's all you can do, the other team can concentrate their efforts on defending it and shut you down no matter how good you are. Add a running threat, though, and you open up those recievers a little more and get the points. Same with fighting. A well ballanced attack is more consistantly effective than an attack that favors only one type of weapon or strategy.

Wow! Where can I learn this? Sounds like it would be a tremendouse addition to my martial skills!

Step in to a good stance and deliver one upward elbow to his chin/jaw. Fight ends real quick, and the strike doubles as a clearing check as well as a block, while you are not on one leg, nor vulnerable to a kick going in. And there are more effective defenses against the clinch and knee than against a properly executed upward elbow strike (not that it isn't effective, by any means). Just one suggestion, out of many possible tactics and techniques. Depends a lot on the specific situation/variables also. Bottom line- there's more than one way to skin a cat, which is a good thing because every cat is a little different.

Welcome aboard, and good choice of styles (though I may be a little prejudiced in that opinion ). Mostly, a good mixture of the flow of the softer styles with the hard moves. Also completeness, though many styles can claim this, and the definition varries. And they are as a rule very effective, though this varries a lot depending on the practitioner and the school. American Kenpo tends to have a better ballance of hard and soft, where other Kempo systems tend to focus more on flow. Out training methods are also somewhat different, geared more towards the Western mindset. AK also, like no other system I've seen, emphasizes understanding (in addition to mastery of the basics) right from the start. You are required to know and understand the principles and concepts involved in what you are doing right from the first technique. It's suitable for everyone, regardless of build or abilities. It was designed to be adapted by the practitioner to fit his physical attributes, his personality and preferences. Your stance changes and the principles and concepts of motion and power, properly applied, do most of the work for you- not your muscles or physique alone. Knowlegable, and able to demonstrate as well as articulate that knowlege. But mostly, he has to have a passion for what he's teaching. His class should be enjoyable, but well run and with no nonsense. And Kenpo is a street self defense/fighting art. They should spar often, and sometimes with hard contact. Their self defense techniques should start out slow and easy, but should be worked up to the point they are done against a resisting opponent who attacks with street force and speed, with variables. Techniques are like mini-kata, they teach principles and concepts, their application, and effective movement under seriouse force. They are not a list of what to do in an attack. If they are taught this way, I'd find another school (though it will probably seem that way at first, until you gain more understanding). No. In fact, that is a good age to start. Some other things to look at: It's not necessary, but it is helpful if the school also teaches some type of grappling. Grappling moves can be extrapolated from the standup techniques of AK, but it is a lot easier to do if you have some basic understanding of ground work. Joint locks and takedowns, and defenses against them are also in the system, but often have to be extrapolated as well. A good school/instrucor will teach these at the appropriate time in your training, but again, Kenpo emphasizes that you should understand well enough to do this yourself. A grappling carruculum enhances this ability. Affiliation with a good AK organization will help assure quality, as well as provide a lot of resources. One of the best resources is the availability of quality, affordable seminars. Standing in the martial arts community is a plus. If your school has a good relationship with other schools, even other styles in your area, it can provide you with a chance to cross train, and train wwith people and methods you are unfamiliar with. Hope this is helpful. Good luck, and keep us posted.

khu19, I don't have time to adequately reply right now, so I'll get to that later when I can give you a good answer. Meanwhile, do you know which association your prospective school is with?

True enough, you don't want to hurt your partner. He has to fake the reaction. That reaction will change things for you, setting up a whole different set of targets and options in a real confrontation. I'm guessing the masters who set up those forms understood this, and was wondering how it was worked into your understanding of forms and applications.

Maybe I read too much in to it, but that is the tone, or general idea I got from it. My apologies if I was wrong.

First off, I see an underlying theme here: "Traditional martial arts schools are no good, don't train good fighters, but put out arrogant jerks that think they are tougher than they are. And Krav Maga is best." Sorry, I'm not buying your story as presented. It's possible, but highly unlikely that anyone with much training would be that incompetant. Also, most schools (and any American Kenpo schools I know of, if that is what he was in) would have gotten rid of this kind of jerk pretty quick, no matter what the style. There are too many variables implied but not stated with both the agressor and the protagonist in your story. It stands to reason that the owner of a fight club has some interest in the fighting arts, and a good chance he's studied at least one. He's probably fought before too. Knowing this, why present it here in this kind of question? Your entire presentation begs the question, presuming that someone you try to present as untrained can take on anyone trained in a more traditional school, when it is so obviously not the case even as you tell it. This just doesn't sound right to me. Not saying it didn't happen, or that you are a liar. But it appears that you've embellished a little to make a point, and there's no way to counter that point other than to call it out in the open and say it as I see it. (I'll probably be hearing from the mods again, but oh well. Things are as they are.)

Shorin Ryuu pretty much summed it all up there! Learn them all, learn what they teach, not what they do. I'd go so far as to say that no technique works exactly as taught in a real fight. But the summ of what you were taught in the techniques can work in every fight. The key is to learn them in stages. First, learn in the air and with a compliant partner, one step at a time. Then start working on flow, condensing the technique. Some things can be done simultaneously, others just naturally lead from one to the next. Start to introduce force and resistance by your uke, increasing it gradually as you get better. Allways think it through, work off his reactions (he's not just going to stand there when you hit him- his body will involuntarilt move). Add changeups, positional variations, extra moves. You'll have to adjust to all these things as they occur, sometimes even abandoning the technique and doing something else. And allways, as SR so aptly stated, work within solid principles and concepts, looking at how they are applied and used. When you pick your few that you like, do so on the basis of the principles they stress and the concepts used to apply them. But don't discard the other techniques. Emphasize whatworksfor you best, without excluding what might not work as well. It still works, and could be all that works in a given situation. If nothing else, you need to understand it to defend against it.

Angela, great post! Question- when you work through these applications, do you work off the opponents reactions to these strikes? For example, does your uke bend forward in response to a solar plexus strike, or turn in response to a cross to the jaw?

Yeah, right! I bet half the bar thought you did the right thing, and the other half thought it was just good entertainment! Have a good time in Spokane! Unfortunately, the real police got to all the old bars/taverns that I used to hang out in there and closed them down! Jerks! You'll just have to be content with the red-head!

I think this attitude is not very correct if you want to try to solve peacefully a conflict. I agree with your analysis, italian guy, if that is all you focus on. But, in the bigger picture, I see this as the primary reason he set up the confrontation, which I said he should not have done. On the other hand, he did learn from his mistake. My point is that he shouldn't learn the wrong things from this experience. The PC jerks are going to say you are never justified in calling someone out. The 'do' only guys will tell him he should just console himself with the knowlege that he 'could have' taken this guy any time. And, some would probably go to the opposite extreme and say hit him the first time he openshis mouth. I say there comes a point where, in your judgement, enough is enough. Peaceful persuasion and avoidance have failed, and it is time to up the level of conflict while you have a better chance of controling things. And, there comes a point where, even if you are sure that it will allways be only verbal, you just shouldn't have to put up with it. Personally, I think the authorities and this kids parents need to be put in their place as well. OK04 is a teenager, and has a lot to learn (heck, I'm still learning, and I can barely remember being a teen). He's on the right track. He knows he made a mistake, but he should not let the PC idiots that come out of the woodwork when you are in a vulnerable state influence his common sense in this. He can consider what happened, and the input of others. But I think he has enough of a brain to figure this out. I'm just encouraging him to do it, as opposed to letting some 'authority figure' do it for him. If most authority figures could do anything useful, they'd have got a real job in the first place instead of weaseling into a position to tell others to go do it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to authority. It is necessary. But I HATE the abuse of authority that I see as rampant today! And those that will tell him that he should never defend himself, or his honor, are as abuseive as they are wrong! So, he lost it a little! Big deal! That happens in conflicts, and the mouthy jerk should have known that when he started up. If he didn't, then I'd say both of these guys learned a good lesson here. No harm done, until the PC police get involved.

I'm going to be in the minority here, but I don't think what either OkinawaKarate04 or Shorinru Sensei did was entirely wrong. True, as martial artists, we are supposed to show a little restraint and control. But we're not doormats. In OK04's case, you should not have arranged a meeting. But in both cases, a person can only take so much. And the more the law leans toward protecting these mouthy jerks, the worse they get, knowing you probably won't retaliate. Problem is, you don't know that one day they won't work up the courage if they think they see an opportunity to sucker punch you. Another problem is that no one needs to put up with this kind of garbage, even if it never does turn physical. And the same authority that comes down on you for winning a fight seldome steps in beforehand to stop these jerks from bothering you. So, with no apologies to any one, I'm going to say you both did ok. OK04, you could have done better. But you did ok. SS, you're old enough to know better than to beat yourself up over this. And my hat's off to anyone who improves the atmosphere at a good watering hole! So stop trying to sound all deep and philosophical, and have another beer!

Yes, ...and no. The fist is the weapon, your whole body is the delivery system, and the ground is your anchor. Many systems look at power as comeing from the ground up. But motion starts at the tantien (for some the waist, but realy it is in the small muscles of the back). And a proper punch hits with the whole body. First, let's look at the ground. Without a good base, your strike is less effective. Try pushing a car on ice as opposed to dry pavement, and you can get an idea of how important a good base is to power aplication. Maximum power transfer is dependant on a solid foundation, or base. Next, it depends on structure. To push a car, you have to lean into it, getting all your body and muscle mass structually behind it. To deliver an effective punch, you should do the same thing. Your entire structure should line up to support the strike. (For the literal minded, I'm not telling you to lean). Coordinated movement is the next consideration. If that structure and base are not established at the right place and moment in time, it does no good. One of the key elements in this is movement from your center, or tantien. Whether a straight, linear punch, or the whiping power generation you talk about, initiating movement from your center connects the upper and lower body in a coordinated, simultaneouse pattern of movement that gives maximum effectiveness and speed, and maximum power. It all has to work together to be effective. So, yes, your punch comes from the ground up in a sense. But it starts at your center.

Add my congrats to that! Good job, Ang!

Bah! That's my line! You're just jealouse because I came up with a better mirror story! And, hey! ..., I've warned you guys before I'm an unabashed plagerist!

Papillon950, like I said, we all go through that phase in our lives, and others are correct in saying we go through a dangerouse phase in our martial arts training as well. You just got double whammied, going through both at the same time. But the fact that you actually steped back and looked at you actions honestly puts you miles ahead of the average person to start with. Most of us get stuck in those phases untill enough hard knocks convince us to move on. It's all training, in martial arts and in life. You're doing ok, so stay with it! Hope to see you here more often.

Agree with White Warlock. You don't have to train in the martial arts for years, but you should get a basic familiarity with them before writing about them if you want to be taken seriously (even though it's fiction, it should be somewhat believable). If you want style recognition, I'd go with a mixed venue. American Kenpo for street defense and understanding of principles, Taijiquan-fa for internal application, Sambo for grappling, Muay Thai for hardcorps physical contact. And she's so bad, she isn't interested in rank.She trains primarily in the clothes she'll normally wear anyhow, so no one really knows what her 'rank' is. By the way, those deep, mystical powers she posses comes from her study of Taiji. So you should do a lot of reading on this in particular. Also, visit a few different schools. But find seriouse martial arts schools, particularly with the Taiji. If they aren't doing the martial applications, then they are a health only club and not worth your effort. And if you don't want to research all the other martial arts mentioned, then just go with the Taiji, with Shui Jao and Chin-na (Chinese fast grappling and joint locks). All you really need in one convenient package, and novel enough for most people because they only think of 'Tai Chi' as a bunch of old folks and old hippies gracefully dancing in the park. Good luck. Oh, and keep in mind that a martial art is a good thing to study for a writer. When you reach an impasse, get up and practice a few techniques or do a form. Clears the mind, centers your thought, and uses energy that would otherwise distract you just sitting there. Definately go with American Kenpo for this, as no other system out there concentrates so much on principles and understanding right from the start- important for a writer.

Thanks, ninjanurse. I tend to get carried away sometimes, but oh well... . White Warlock- sorry, I couldn't resist! But, really, a shave? Ubber droll, mon! Actually, I tried to shave the other day, and almost mutilated my face before I realized my daughter had put a picture of the dog looking out the window up on the mirror. My mouth was puckered, and there was this one really long hair that I just couldn't get...