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That is not the case. But i do agree that being well rounded is important. However, for me, the only time i would use my techniques are in a situation where i need to defend myself. In this case i dont place a high importance on kicks.

Thank you everyone for your replies, i will address some comments and hopefully shed a little more light on the situation. To me it was the whole training 'format' i guess. Like i said, i want to train to stay fit and be able to defend myself. In karate training we did the basics, kata, sparring, bagwork on a very rare occasion, some partner work. Most of the class time was spent working on technique, which i dont have a problem with because good technique is important, but i think there is a point where you need to move on and practice the technique in application. There just wasnt enough of this in the class. I learned around 10-15 kata, none of which i have been shown the applications for, i learned the japanese names for all the techniques. etc etc... none of which helps me in achieving either of my goals. All of the above are nice things to do, and suit some people, because not everyone has the same goals or needs from their training. But for me personally i dont want to spend my time doing that kind of thing, when i could be training in other ways to achieve my goals. I guess it comes down to me wanting to train more like an athlete and less like an "artist".

I have recently ended my training in traditional karate and started boxing training, so i think i can relate to what your talking about. Here are my views on the subject: Your correct, martial arts can teach all those things, but how many people who train martial arts 1 or 2 times a week can actually do all of this? probably no-one, certainly not anyone who is attending high school(which is what your talking about). On the other hand, a person who trains in boxing for even a short time learns how to hit hard, and stop other people from hitting them. (which is a near essential skill in a self defence situation). Self defence is not like a boxing match. Boxers can end fights with 1 or 2 techniques quiet easily, it just depends on the skill of the person your facing. You also mention fatigue... For a boxer, who generally trains to keep fighting round after round, fatigue would not really be an issue. I guess we can talk about it all we want, and people will have good arguments for both sides. But to answer your original question about why boxing gets so much respect... The best way to find out is to go to a boxing gym and give it a try(which is what i did, and now i train exculsively in boxing), it might be an eye opener. You'll see what real conditioning is all about, and what works and doesnt when it comes down to it.

This is a quick post about whats happened to me recently... I recently started boxing, and find this type of training is very well suited to my goals in martial arts. Im not interested in competing at all, just fitness and the ability to look after myself if needed. After 5 years of training in traditional karate, i have decided to stop training in this style. My main reasons for training martial arts is fitness and self defence, the training i was doing just wasnt cutting it. I wrote an official letter to my instructor thanking him for all he offered and explaining my reasons for leaving. Just thought i would share.

There are alot of options, 1 peice of equipment i found useful is a peice of elastic with a tennis ball on one end and a headband on the other. You may have to do a bit of searching to find 1 for sale. Or you can make it yourself. The idea is that the ball should hang down around stomach height and you punch it straight out in front of you, alternating hands each time. This gets your reflexes and hand-eye co-ordination working. An important thing to consider is the actual techniques your using when reacting. The idea should be to apply your techniques in a way that makes them work in a majority of cases without requiring a great deal of timing or super quick reflexes.

Hey folks, Had my first night of boxing training tonight ! Was excillent, i have to admit im feeling the pain right now, but in a weird way its a good pain... cant wait for the next lesson. Coming from a traditional background of karate (which i still train in) i thought my fitness would be alright, but when we started the skipping then bag work, all non stop, it really added up and was a good eye opener. Thats about it, ill go and have a nice cold shower for about an hour or so... hehehe.

I use the boxing guard when sparring etc. For self defence the only difference would be the hands are open and moving a little more(while i talk) in a "non-threatening" manner i.e. the fence.

It the technique gets the desired reaction then it is effective. For example, if you hit someone in the face and it just distracts them for that slight second so you can escape, even if it doesnt really hurt them, i would still consider that effective. If you are hitting them and they just stand there like nothing happened, your not doing it right.

I agree with this. The application of the guard will depend on alot of variables, including: rules, position of the opponent, if you are facing weapons, or more than one person etc. I use the boxing guard or slight variations of it because i find keeping both hands up works best for me. In a self defence situation you usually wont have a chance to get into a on-guard position until after your have started throwing techniques. From there you will usually just hold your hands however you have been practicing (for me that will be the boxing guard) and will act out of reflex rather than thinking. So in conclusion, use the hand position that stops you from getting hit at the time. You may use a number of positions and the boxing/muay thai guard will most probably be one of them.

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This is true. Its also true that someone who had planned out an attack would be so intent on reaching whatever goal they wanted to achieve by this act of violence, that they would not be put of by a kiai. If were are talking about using the kiai WITH another technique, thats a different story. If someone punched you in the face and did a kiai with it im pretty sure you would be more worried about the punch than you would the kiai. In saying that i do agree with your point that kiai should not be performed alone. Tried it, not much difference. If your hitting with correct breathing you will be able to hit harder and for longer than you would be able to by kiaiing on each technique.

Once again, if someone is keen to attack you they would hardly be startled by a kiai, if anything they would probably be expecting you to scream or cryout in some way.

In a sparring situation it might work. But in self defence if the person is set on taking your out i doubt a shout is going to scare them away.

Kiai does have an actual use, its a very basic form of communication. This is often forgotten during martial arts training. In a self defence situation its crucial to communicate, but im not saying communication is the main objective of practicing kiai. The amount of focus/concentration/strength etc you learn to generate when performing a kiai can be directly applied to a fighting situation and if you look at various bunkai techniques you will find that the kiai can represent a finishing techniques (i.e a technique that finishes off the opponent once you have already taken him out). So going back to your original question, there would be basically no risk at all of being knocked out or getting a broken jaw if you perform a kiai at the correct time (along with a finishing technique). I guess the application of most of the things we do in karate are not always easily seen or have a clean cut explanation, but practicing them will benifit you.

I think the problem is not so much a lack of blocking. I see people 'trying' to block, but their hands are not high enough to begin with, so they cant execute the defensive techniques effectively. For more on this take a look at: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=16517&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

1. Keep your hands up. 2. Like Eiichi said, kicks to the thighs are pretty common so be ready to check with your lead leg and DO NOT try to block these kicks with your arms/hands.

In kihon and kata yes. I usually dont kiai at all when sparring(unless im performing a finishing technique). I certainly wouldnt kiai in a self defence situation. So there is a difference between what you do in basic training and the fighting application.

Where is the hand when its "up" ?

In basics you pull back to the hip: 1. so you maintain control of both arms while your performing techniques. 2. So you are aware that you can grab and pull your opponent with the hand that isnt attacking/defending (hikite). and 3. So you learn the mechanics of the technique. In application, the techniques are more "free-flowing" so your hands will either be: 1. In a guard (getting ready to do something) or... 2. Actually doing something (blocking, attacking, redirecting, grabbing etc.) Hikite falls into the second category. In this situation i would try and turn the block into a grab and pull, so i would "chamber" my left hand to my side, but i would be holding my opponents arm with it. Then the right punch comes straight from a guard position(up near the chin, for me).

Before i punch im not standing flatfooted, im moving around on the balls of my feet. When i punch the heel lift is a result of hip rotation.

It depends if your talking about kihon or application. In kihon the heel stays down because its correct form, but in application you perform the techniques on a more free-flowing manner. This means you wont really be in an exact zenkutsu dachi but you will "fall" into a position similar to it for a small moment while performing the strike. All my techniques are applied basically from a boxing stance. Feet shoulder width apart and when i just, if im moving forward i might "fall" into zenkutsu dachi and then keep moving forward with the gyaku tsuki.

I agree. In continuous sparring it may appear that people are getting hit more, or not worried about getting hit. The truth is, its impossible to stop every single one of your opponents attacks, it is however possible to minimise the damage. If we cant avoid getting hit, we minimise the impact.

I most probably would never use the kata/kihon version of the spearhand due to the amount of conditioning required to make it effective. I would however use the principles of the technique and apply it has a strike with the vertical fist.

Sitting in the passenger seat of a car is like driving, except your not behind the wheel. I tend to disagree, you may be super good at sparring but it doesnt automatically mean your going to be super good at self defence. When you spar, your opponent is someone you know and have most probably sparred before, you know what to expect from them and you know they will stop if you are hurt or cant continue. With this knowledge, you will probably try things you normally wouldnt do if you were in a fight for your life. In some ways sparring and actual fighting are related, but in alot of ways they are worlds apart. To think you could win a street fight, based only on your results in sparring matches, would be foolish to say the least.

What do you want the submissions for? Self defence or competition?