LOILOI44

There are many misconceptions about the statistic that 90% of all fights end up on the ground. The study was conducted by either the F.B.I. or the U.S.D.O.J. I haven't been able to find the actual study. The study was done in regards to fights involving law enforcement officers. There are some obvious key difference between a street fight/MMA competition and and fights involving police. First of all in a fight, your intention is not to restrain your opponent and handcuff him or her. When making an arrest, your main objective is your own safety. Then you would have to restrain your suspect and place handcuffs on them. It is easier to cuff a person when they are lying on their stomach (when they are resisting) than if they were standing. In addition, when you are in a street fight/MMA event you are not armed. When making an arrest you must protect your weapon at all costs. This adds a whole new dynamic to the confrontation. The statistic does not apply to every day life. As far as cross training goes, if you are loyal to a certain style or school, why not stick with it if it works for you? The problems I have seen with cross training is that no all styles fit perfectly together. I recently went to https://www.bjj.org. Not knowing that much about the style, I wanted to do some research. Now I'm sure there are more techniques than were shown on the website, but from what I saw it was basic Judo and Japanese or traditional JuiJitsu without the throws and added were wrestling like shoot takedowns. Maybe I'm biased, but Japanese JJ to me seems like the most well rounded art with no need for cross training. In it's tradtional form it has everything including ground fighting. You have to remember this style was devised to fight an opponent who is usually armed(sword) and wearing armour. If it was good enough for the samurai, it works for me.

The original aim of this thread was to try and gain some insight into the inner workings of BJJ. I study traditional (Japanese) Jui-Jitsu, and Judo. I wanted to know how BJJ differed from the arts I study. What I've learned is this...BJJ relies heavily on the guard, it specializes in mainly ground fighting, and as a Judoka, and BJJ players are more advanced than I am. I guess it's a good thing that students of BJJ are so passionate about their art.

Which school did they walk into? Was it a beginer's class? If they walked into the Kodokan and defeated everybody in there, then I will change my tune. If any of them beat an internationally ranked Judoka please let me know. You might not like Aikido, but to call it bs, that's a little harsh. I've never heard a single Aikidoka claim that they were the toughest kid on the block. Aikido is purely a defensive art (till you reach the higher levels). It might not suit you, but it still is a legitimate art. I guess unless an art encourages a huge amount of bravado then it isn't a real art. (That was sarcasm by the way)

Kansai, My intention was not to belittle you. It's just that Prof. Higashi is the finest practitioner of martial arts I have ever seen. I had the honor of meeting him. It was a life changing experience. I meant to defend him more than insult you. Sorry if it came off like that.

I guess it's all about perception. I've seen Judo done really well. The BJJ I've seen probably hasn't been of the highest quality.

Does anybody know where to get a pair of pants with an elastic waist? Reinforced knees perfered.

WOW...could somebody tell me when I said that BJJ sucks? If somebody could tell me how I am "flaming" BJJ please tell me. If having a different opinion than the majority is considered flaming then please let me know. I said "As far as who's better...I will bet money on the best The Kodokan has to offer against any of the Gracies." That is an opinion! Maybe my intentions came off wrong. The only thing I knew about BJJ was watching the Gracies compete, and what I see in magazines like Black Belt. I wanted to find out more about the art. As far as performance goes...I do not know of any Judoka who have competed in the UFC. Please let me know if anybody knows of any. I also don't know of any BJJ players who have competed in any major Judo tournaments. Please enlighten me. From what I have seen BJJ is a very effective martial art in MMA competitions. But I don't think they cornered the market on effective unarmed combat

I have nothing personally against bjj. I think it's brought great exposure for the other arts out there. I'm just not a fan of the bravado that seems to follow it. I only know what I have seen in MMA competitions. I was just trying to get insight as to what the difference between traditional Jui-Jitsu, Judo, and BJJ. As far as who's better, it's just oppinion.

Kensai, once again I appologize for my ignorance. I don't study martial arts for the religious aspects. Whether or not you are a fan of Prof. Tomiki, he does have his place in the history of Aikido. You say that you study a spinoff of Aikido. Can't all forms of Aikido have their place? As far as Higashi's tome, I find it to be an excellent book. The man is a 7th dan. He has been involved in the art for probably twice as long as you have been alive. It's pretty easy to criticize a man's work from a distance. I'm curious if you have written a better book yourself? If you have I would love to check it out.

Thanks JJ fighter. I wasn't to sure of the exact history.

I'm curious to see if people have suffered many injuries over the years of training in grappling styles. If you have, what remedies do you have to heal them.

That's good to know. I take it to try and not have to get knee surgery. I'm glad that it has other health benefits.

I'm sorry Venezolano, this is where we have to disagree. In Judo I will agree, the guard is not the exclusive technique. In Judo you should train from all positions. As far as techniques from the guard, with the exception of strikes (which are taught in Japanese Jui-Jitsu) Judo has every one BJJ has and then some. Maybe the Judo schools in your area aren't very good. In Judo the focus should not be only on throws. They are important, but unless you score a full point for a spectacular throw the action all goes to the mat. A good Judo school will work ground fighting heavily. As far as who's better...I will bet money on the best The Kodokan has to offer against any of the Gracies. Now that would be a worthy pay per view event. As far as my original point...I don't see any difference between Judo techniques and BJJ. The only difference is that there are more Judo techniques.

This is where I be to differ. I study under somebody who trained at The Kodokan. In my school we use the guard, but not exclusively. We learn from all positions. I just think you haven't seen Judo taught properly. It was always my understanding that ne-waza was ground fighting. A good school will teach how to fight from the ground. It is a huge part of Judo.

As far as putting the book together overnight I can tell you that is as far from the fact as you can be. Do not judge things you don't know about. If you studdied under Prof. Higashi then I can understand, but please research a bit before your criticize. Prof. Higashi is one of the foremost experts in Tomiki Aikido alive today. He actually studied under Prof. Tomiki. As far as his book goes, I found it to be an extremely valuable tool. It might not be your cup of tea, but do not devalue it. As far as O Sensei's religion...I am sorry for my confusion.

I still don't get it. The guard does exist in both Judo and Jui-Jitsu. I don't think the Gracies invented it. It seems like every technique I have seen in BJJ exists in Judo (with the exception of strikes) and Jui-Jitsu. Every school I have studied at does teach Ne-waza (ground fighting) so I still don't see what BJJ is all about. What makes i t different from traditional (Japanese) Jui-Jitsu?

My question is what tournament did Machado enter? Who was it sanctioned by? Was there anybody nationally/internationally ranked? Was it an open tournament or an invitational? There are Judo tournaments everyday. Some are better than others. You say it was a big one, but please clairfy. Does this mean that Machado is in training for Athens 2004?

I think we're missing the main fact here. The world has changed. There are factors that come into play. I don't know about everybody else, but I have a full time job. I do not train every day like a samurai. The four classes I attend a week come nowhere near my teacher's six hours a day he used to train in Japan. In ancient cultures people start earlier. If you were born into the role of a soldier, you started at age four. I started at age 20. My feeling is that these NHB fighters are much larger than the samurai, and in much better shape, but the samurai played for keeps. When you fought, it was for your life; not money and a belt. I would put my money on a samurai, any day of the week. To answer the question...the styles have not changed; we have!

I've found that if people have access to a controlled violence in a safe setting (the dojo)they are less likely to seek it out in the outside world. Granted there are exceptions to every rule. I try and study self-defense, not self-offense.

What a well thought out and insightful post.

Those websites are scary. How can somebody be so closed minded, and do it all in the name of God. I was raised Catholic, and I attend a martial art school in the basement of a Budhist temple. Not once has the topic of religion come up. To call martial arts a cult is delusional. It seems more like the people who wrote those websites are the ones with the cult mentality.

I hate to burst you bubble, but BJJ is nowhere near more advanced than Judo. Judo, if it is trained properly is very advanced. There are many, many, many more techniques in Judo. I suggest picking up Kodokan Judo by Prof. Gigaro Kano. You can't say anything about Judo if you only study parts of it. Where do you think BJJ came from? Watch any Judo match and I guarantee you will recognize techniques from BJJ. All the techniques in BJJ are from Judo. I would put the best the Kodokan has to offer against any of the Gracies.

I'm not a historian, but maybe this will help. Tradtional or Japanese Jui-Jitsu was developed in feudal Japan. It became the martial art choice of the samurai. The samurai's first line of defense was his sword. Jui-Jitsu was used when they were disarmed. Most of the times they were facing an armed opponent(s). It was the first Japanese martial art, and all Japanese martial arts are descended from it. In it's true form it should encompass all aspects of combat. It should have punches, kicks, throws, chokes, joint techniques, and ground techniques. Most modern schools also teach weapon training. As far as my understanding about BJJ (and please correct me if I am wrong) it specializes on a rudimentary take down (such as a simple wrestling double or single leg takedown) and then it all revolves around the guard. This is where you wrap your legs around your opponent. It is from here that you strike your opponent or try a move that will make them submit. Mitsuo Maeda (who it was my undertsanding was the Japanese Ambassador) was a master Judoka (judo player). He taught Gastao Gracie some Judo. Gracie took what he liked and then combined it with street fighting. It is also my understanding that when he traveled to Japan, Gracie had his leg snapped while he was being thrown. Even after his injuries he refused to quit, and won the respect of some of the Judoka in Japan.

Maybe some of the BJJ practitioners out there can help me to understand what BJJ is really all about. In the MMA events I have seen, BJJ fairs well but I see very limited technique. What I usually see is a double leg take down and then an attempt to get into the guard. After that I see an attempt to get into "the guard" and then numerous punches to the face till there's blood everywhere. Occasionally I have seen a hadaka jime (naked choke), and juji-gatame (arm bar). The only variation I have seen is Royce Gracie using sankankyu-jime (three corner choke). Does BJJ have many techniques? Does BJJ have many throws? In all the MMA contests I have seen (I know I haven't seen all of them) I haven't seen any BJJ use throws to take down their opponent. I would think you would have a strategic advantage if you took your opponent down in a controlled manor, rather than just tackling them and trying to get on top. I don't mean to sound like I'm trashing BJJ. I don't really know anything about it. My background lies in Japanese Jui-Jitsu, and Judo.

Tomiki Aikido is more geared for self defense. It addressed the lack of combat effectiveness in traditional aikido. Usheiba was a devout Buddhist and stressed spirituality. Prof. Tomiki filled in the gaps and made aikido more street ready. I recomend Aikido: Tradition and New Tomiki Free Fighting Method by Prof. Higashi. It's considered the best book on the subject.