LOILOI44

As far as my dojo goes, don't comment on something you don't know about. I see from your comment you have never been sued for messing somebody up.

Let me know which correctional facility I can send cigarettes to. It seems to me that you're going down a bad road.

TJS, thanks for the info. It showed good faith to do that much research. Personally though, I chose an art I felt comfortable with. John Whitman, I'm sure is an excellent martial arts instructor;but he wouldn't be the one in front of a grand jury. It's all about what I can articulate. I think it's good for an officer to know there are options out there, and then make their own decision.

You don't see anything wrong with hitting a guy with sticks because he "harassed" you? Did he dis your colors too? I've read other posts of your's talking about fights you've gotten into. Maybe growing up in New York City made me realize that having a bad attitiude could get you hurt. I guess in Canada things are a different. It sounds like a nice place. I guess you don't see that learning a martial art comes with a certain responsibility. It is a weapon just like a gun. I'm not going to preach to you, or give you a lecture. You are not a baby as you claim. In the future don't ask for advice if you can't handle what people will give you. When a senior student gives you advice on your technique do try and justify what you did, or do you accept their advice as having value? I just hope I got you thinking

I think George Dilman would disagree.

Now you are showing your age. You started this thread asking for advice. People have been trying to give you what I thought was fairly sound advice. I feel like you have done your best to dispute everything told to you rather than take some value from it. I hoped my story would let you see that there is a potential to be hurt with a bad attitude. No matter how bad you think you are, there is always somebody tougher than you. Why ask for advice if you didn't really want an answer?

Even with science's advances in this age we still don't understand everything about the human body. The operation of the brain, nervous system, and electrical impulses the body emits are still a mystery. It's been said that we only use 12% of the capacity of our brains. Why is this not possible? It can be explained, but it's possible.

Impresive resume. I know at 17 years of age I really knew nothing of the world or martial arts. I am not saying that is the case with you, but at 17 I thought I knew it all. It wasn't until a pair of brass knuckles and 6 hours of surgery changed my view. I hope you are spared the same fate before you see another side. Just so you know age does not make a man, actions do.

I haven't heard a single person say this technique would work in a fight.

quote="JerryLove"] This is actually a good selling point for KM. KM is definately intended to work under these conditions (being designed for soldier use). If you were comparing Jujitsu to (say) Capoeria, you would be offering an excellent reason to exclude Capoeria. Of course if that's just offerd as a "Jujitsu is well suited" affirmation, I agree. Yes but how often do people train in full equipment for hand to hand combat? When I learned "self-defense" I use the term very loosely, we were wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and sneakers. Do you know of any military units that train h2h in full gear? This I am curious about

I can respect that. I'm just going from personal experience. Krav Maga had not had any popularity when I was on the street. Out of sheer luck a JuiJitsu/Judo school was the closest to my house. I guess it all boils down to personal preference.

Yes I do agree with the fact that it is good to have the tools. I do not see how you can compare a kickboxing match to an encounter on the street. They are two tottally different animals. Things on the street happen so fast, and nobody is going to ring a bell if you get knocked out. Time is not a luxuary you have out there. Another thing that was not considered is the fact that in a uniform, you can weigh up to 30 lbs heavier. You're wearing a vest, and a belt with a gun, sometimes 2, you have a flash light, baton, extra ammo, portable radio, and other junk. JuiJitsu is ideal because the samuari wore armor. It's all about economy of movement, minimum effort; maximum results.

I went to a couple of Krav Maga websites. Now I have never trained in the art, nor do I claim to be an expert. Here are a couple of videos I found: http://www.kravmaga.com.br/english/galery/index.asp# What I have seen here is basic JuiJitsu. The foot sweep that you see in video #1 and #4 is a move called O-soto-gari. As far as the 2nd video I would never even consider leaving my feet to take a person down. Granted these are only a few KM techniques. From what I saw though, they did not reinvent the wheel. It looks like it was just packaged differently. I'm not taking anything away from the effectiveness of KM. Isreali special forces are supposed to be the fiercest soldiers in the world. I once met a retired Massad (sp?) agent, scariest person I ever met. I just think it's not ideal for law enforcement. Just because something says it's designed for police doesn't always make it so. I remember a bullet proof vest manufacturer who was putting out a defective product for police officers. It didn't live up to it's ballistic rating. Selling products to law enforcement is a multi-million dollar industry.

Actually most injuries happen to officers in family disputes. It is the most deceptive situation. You walk in to a simple verbal argument, and the next thing you know the wife is swinging a frying pan at you. I found that drunks on the street could be dealt with fairly easily. Usually if you ignore them, they go away (provided they hadn't broken any laws.) Pepper spray works well to subdue them in addition. Family disputes on the other hand, it does not feel very good to have a stranger come into your own house and tell you how to behave. It can be very emasculating, especially if that stranger is younger, or female. Inside pepper spray isn't always ideal. It can really ruin your day when you spray it and it hits a fan or air conditioner. Trust me I know. Aside from that Jerry, I agree with you on everything you posted. As a civilian when you see something, you can call 911. As the police, when you see something you are 911. [/code]

I know of a few excellent martial arts programs in YMCAs. One thing I have seen about them is they are certainly not McDojos. Don't be put off by the location. It is no worse than in a shopping mall, or in a dance school. You can find great dojos in the most obscure places. You just have to know where to look.

What are the martial arts schools of today teaching? I do sort of understand 360's concern. She is very young. What I don't understand is all the encouragement of the concept of choking a classmate to the point of unconsciousness. Is this person our mortal enemy who we want to disable? This is a classmate. Will they learn anything from losing consciousness? I would learn something...not to go back to that school. I'm gald 360 questioned what to do. Would it be the end of the world if she let the poor kid go? She has him choked and he is turning colors. It sounds like she applied the technique properly. I really want to know where was her teacher through this. Does he think it's ok for young kids to choke each other out? Does anybody else see a problem with this?

ramy, that post had some very good points. I do agree with the fact that jjfighter is very young. I hope he grows and sees that there is more to martial arts than he has experienced. Also I don't know if we can pin all the blame on him. He said his instructor gets on him if he does not train at 100%. I think his enviornment is encouraging behavior like this. JJfighter, I was reading a thread where the discussion was things you would not tollerate in your dojo. You posted this: Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i will not accept the advanced belts throwing me around and i don't like to be pushed around by other people, _________________ kick,punch,throw,submit,run...... I find it strange that you did to her one of the things you can't accept. She was a higher rank than you in a different style, but in your style she is the novice. Also you weigh more than her by 20 lbs. You as a male produce more testosterone than a female. Even though you are around the same size, you are still much stronger than her. I don't believe in treating females different. I believe in treating each person different. I've trained with 13 year old males who are around my size. Does that mean that I am to go at them full force because they are similar in size to me? Just because you can really dominate somebody, does that mean you have to? Was your physical safety in danger, or just your ego? That is my real question. I just reread a post of yours and you said: "and she was definately used to my class because it was like her 4th time there" I wasn't used to my dojo 4 months after I was there. Is your dojo that young that where four classes makes you not a novice? I've been there almost two years, and I still consider myself a beginer. There are people in my class who have been there for 40, yes forty years. These are students, not the teacher. In my school if I would have throttled a new student who was there only 4 classes (regardless of what they studied before) he would have thrown me out of the dojo. If this is encouraged in your school I would rethink my training.

Thanks for the info kenpo4life. I guess I wasn't that crazy or that incorrect in believing that most of the techniques in BJJ are also in Judo.

Traditional JuiJitsu, has more than enough fatal techniques. Yes there is no martial art that is effective against GunJitsu, unless you've watched The Matrix too many times.

So, basically you're saying that you have no interest in showing control and helping other people in your class come along in their training? Is this a personal attitude or a MMA thing? Good point! That is why I am more in favor of TMA's. I feel that TMA's promote values that are important in everyday life. I'm curious, and don't take this the wrong way. I really want to know does BJJ and other "modern" martial arts have any basic philosiphy? Do they teach any values?

Well you have to give me all the facts. I was under the assumption that she was the same age as you. You never said she was 27. In your original post you asked for advice. I would have handled it the same way: As far as how to deal with her, if I were you I would tell her that in you only spar as hard as your opponent does. Tell her that you felt she came at you full force, so you felt you had no choice but to return her agression. You don't have to justify your actions to me. I have to admit it would have been real tempting to floor her if she had a bad attitude. Sometimes it's good to resist the urges, that's what makes us as martial artisits different.

It seems that this thread has gone from a tactitcal discussion to a legal discussion. It all boils down to what you can articulate while on the stand. If a suspect tries to forcibly take your gun from you, I think it's safe to say that you can articulate that the suspect put you in fear for your life and you had to use deadly physical force against them. As far as what I know about Krav Maga, granted I don't know that much about the style but if every suspect of mine had been bloodied because I elbowed them and broke their nose; there could be potential problems. I'm not saying that Krav Maga couldn't be useful, but I would prefer a softer style like aikido and traditional JuiJitsu. Krav Maga might be good on the battle field, but the streets are not really a battle field. In battle your intention is to kill your opponent. On the street it is to arrest your suspect.

Yep, I'm part of that great big conspiracy by the Yakuza to discredit the Gracies. I have only seen clips of the match. I have not seen the whole match. From what I saw Gracie was not in a good spot. These are the facts: Vanderlei Silva defeated Tatsuya Iwasaki by TKO (Strikes) 1:16 1R Jerrell Venetiaan defeated Daijiro Matsui by Decision (Split) 5:00 3R Gary Goodridge defeated Lloyd Van Dams by TKO (Strikes) 3:39 1R Ernesto Hoost drew with Semmy Schilt (5R) Jerome LeBanner defeated Don Frye by KO 1R Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira defeated Bob Sapp by Submission (Armbar) 2R Hidehiko Yoshida defeated Royce Gracie by Technical Submission (Gi Choke, Gracie denies tapping) Mirko "Cro-Cop" Filipovic defeated Kazushi Sakuraba by TKO (Possible Broken Eye Orbital) 2 This is from the official PRIDE website. YOSHIDA DID NOT CALL THE MATCH. The ref called the match. The rules said he couldn't but he did any way. How did Yoshida cheat? By telling the ref Gracie was out? So what a fighter can say anything they want. The ref is the offical, not the fighter. The only way a fighter can stop a match is by saying they can't go on. They can't speak for their opponent. Yoshida cheated? That is dillussional. As far as chokes go, how many do you know two, three? There are basically two types of chokes. One is designed to inflict pain, the other is designed cut off the supply of air and blood to the brain. The latter of the two does not always feel that uncomfortable till it is too late. Agree with it,or not Gracie lost. Stop crying and deal with it. Doesn't matter how the match went, it might not have been fair, but it was called as a win for Yoshida. It's over! I guess we will never agree on this. I pray there will be a rematch and soon. Then this argument will be settled once and for all.

Please show me where the rule was agreed on that the ref could not stop the fight.

Thanks Kensai, My DSL went out so I couldn't post last night. JJfighter, I was not giving you a lesson as when to use your skills or not. I'm sorry but I had no idea what the ranks in BJJ and shootfighting were. I assumed that you were a more advanced martial artist than her. The way I look at it is this, 16 year old boys are typically stronger than 16 year old girls (especially with an additional 20 lbs.) In the begining, I would have taken it easy on her. There will be plenty of time to toss her around as she is there for a while. As far as how to deal with her, if I were you I would tell her that in you only spar as hard as your opponent does. Tell her that you felt she came at you full force, so you felt you had no choice but to return her agression. Hope this helps.