Kirves

Usually, if the grappler is way more experienced on the mat, you're better of standup fighting with him anyday. Sure, he can accomplish a takedown and then you'd better know some good moves, but if you only have one year of groundwork and he has twenty years, your best bet is to get him out when still standing.

How old fashioned, but oh, you were a TMA guy, right? When I was in the military, we used explosive line. We ran from tree to tree, wrapped the line around each tree once or twice for larger trees, and after all trees were covered, we pushed a button and the line exploded, cutting all the trees neatly and sharply. This is known as "kime" (focus of power) in karate.

I don't hear that stuff from Non-martial artists, I hear it from those martial artists who study arts that focus on groundfighting.

Sure. Now when one of these "average" people attacks a guy proficient in standup martial arts (standup meaning, can block, kick, punch, knee, elbow, escape and reverse standing grabs, take and use locks, holds, throws, breaks and chokes), how come some people are so sure the martial artist will not be able to resist the "Average Joe" from taking the fight to the ground, and will certainly lose the fight?

The whole thing got revealed to me almost by accident.

I must add a disclaimer though: when I say "over half the training should be applications, not solo performance shadow boxing", I mean in the advanced levels. Beginners need to get the "kihon" or basic technique dynamics down first. Then at a later stage you can get to advanced applications. So, if you are just a yellow belt in a karate school and don't seem to get that much focus on the applications of the kata, don't just quit, you aren't supposed to learn them yet.

Nowadays, you get to learn lots of kata. But in old days, one teacher usually taught only few kata. Some just one. The creator of the kata, designed the kata as a memorizing tool that would contain all the self defence techniques and tactics he wanted to know. Remember, not everyone 300 years ago knew how to read or write, and martial arts in some areas and ages were outlawed anyway. So they found a nice way to "publish" their methods of fighting. How do you use this notebook/kata? Just as you would any other notebook on fighting techniques. I have noticed that not so many karateka do this, but when I studied JKD actively, it was normal that whenever we went to a seminar or training camp, we made notes. We all had notebooks with us and wrote down stuff and techniques that we learned there. Remember, Bruce Lee's famous book "Tao Of Jeet Kune Do" is nothing but a collection of his notes. Then, when we went back to our own JKD clubs, we would continue practising the stuff we learned at the seminars and camps. We soon noticed, that unless you write the stuff down, you're going to forget lots of stuff. So we wrote everything valuable down during breaks. Kata is a collection of the notes of the master who created it. You need the hands-on instruction to interpret it, but you aren't training the techniques when you are just performing the kata. That's like you were just browsing a written notebook by the master. You must go to a page in the notebook (a part in the kata), read the page (study the part of the kata) and then train the methods (drill the stuff with your training partner). If you are only taught to perform the stuff alone, but never go through the applications, you are not learning the stuff, you are just "reading the notes", without anyone explaining what they actually mean. In traditional Okinawan systems, the bunkai, or ti-chi-ki, or application training that is done in live-action-with-partner constitutes over half of the training. If you find yourself doing more of the kata alone than it's applications on a live partner, then you should find another teacher. Your's is just showing you the notes, when you might actually want to learn how to fight with the techniques described in the notes. Many people who have learned 20 katas but have only focused on their solo performance and rarely have trained in their applications, usually are shocked to find what kinds of techniques have been "written" in the most basic types of kata. For example, a normal kata has hundreds of self defence methods, consisting of a few dozen throws, some locks, some chokeholds, escapes, reversals, and so on. Some of the "beginner" kata just contain a few dozen such moves, but that's plenty too if you only thought you were "shadow boxing some blocks and punches". I recommend you read this article: http://www.karate.org.yu/sensei_dan_smith_letter1.htm And you may want to continue the following letters (links at the end of page).

JKD is a filter with which you create your own art from your personal experiences of different arts.

Kali is a good supplement to just about any martial art.

Because cops are into handcuffing people, while the rest of us usually aren't.

It is useless to discuss this with people who say "I just don't believe that" and at the same time staying so close minded they won't go see for themselves. Go to a seminar, have it done onto you, then say "I just don't believe that happened".

Um, no. Kata is a notebook of fighting techniques. It is just like any notebook, if you only read it, it won't help you one iota. If you read stuff from it, then train that stuff, you get the results it was meant for.

That's not just wrong. It's ridiculous. A black belt of a 'do' art should know the basics of the concept of 'do' (i.e. 'tao'), that is, (s)he should be able to live and teach zen philosophy to students. That's why all the arts I've ever been in contact with personally, have had a minimum age for black belt. The lowest minimum age I've seen has been 18 years. My guess is that the child black belts are something that the americans came up a couple of decades ago, when the symbolism of a black belt status wasn't that common a knowledge in there? Someone have a different idea?

I do. The kid should be taught when to tap. And the one choking him, well, let the ego go and the kid too. If the kid's stupid, it doesn't concern you. Safety is #1. I do recognize the need and place for training when a choke will be held to the end. But that is only for adults who have agreed to such rules beforehand. Some NHB or military training may have such sessions. Usually they have expert referees who have been educated on the safety issues and they know when to break up the participants and know advanced CPR. That is not the case when one instructor is leading a class full of common people sparring each other at the same time.

Hmmm... Maybe you're just too close to it. Take some distance, go see some TKD school demonstrations incognito. All the TKD demos I've seen where advertising high kicks for everything. They showed basic techniques=high kicks, they showed sparring=high kicks, they showed self defence=high kicks, then they said they have show kicking competitions and gave a demo (=high kicks), then they end the demo with a brick breaking show (=high kicks). Hmm... You tell me why people think TKD is all about high kicks?

That's true. And one more important element is the person. What's his knowledge and mind set. Some TKD students really have been grown in a vacuum as far as martial arts are concerned. They think a street fight is just like a tournament fight and act accordingly - big mistake. Some TKD students on the other hand meet other martial artists, read a lot, go to camps and seminars of different arts and teachers. They get a wholesome view of the fighting arts and their tactics and differences in general. Such a person can make TKD work a lot better then the one grown in a vacuum. This all come down to the age old issue: if you think your art is the best and never look beyond it's boundaries, you're going to stay narrow minded, limited, and possibly lose a fight at some critical moment in your life. If on the other hand, you accept that no single art has all the answers and keenly go beyond the limits of your own style, get interested in what other people do, how they do it, why they do it, and what good is it to you, then you are on your way to mastery. And that's why it's said it's not the mastery but the way there that counts. You get to meet new people, see places, learn and experience new things. That's the fun part of being a serious martial artist. See where it took Chuck Norris, a man who started with Tang Soo Do, added some Hapkido, Judo and other arts, now studies seriously BJJ among other things. He is a great role model. His way to mastery must've been rewarding. Just think where he'd be now had he stuck himself to Tang Soo Do only and refused to learn anything from anyone else! Notice, that isn't to say TSD isn't a good art, it's just that with such an attitude he would have missed great interpersonal relationships and experiences that were the key to his eventual greatness.

I love Chinto for it's throws and takedowns, some of my favorites there.

EDIT: never mind. I chose a karate school, but didn't stay there either. Now I do MMA.

Of course, this discussion is mostly about the US law system, which I'm not that familiar with. Where I live, the law basically says, you must always do the least damage possible. There have been cases where the officer's life has been threatened, yet the officer has faced a law suit (and been found guilty) when it was obvious that he could've solved the situation without himself doing too much damage. If your life is getting threatened and you can solve it with a shoulder lock, then you should do that instead of breaking his neck. If you train your instincts to go for the neck break, that's what you'll do under stress. If you train your instincst to go for the shoulder lock, that's what you'll do under stress. Both solve the situation, one makes excessive damage (unless you're in war).

As I asked earlier (in this thread or some other, don't remember), what exactly does constitute a fight going to the ground? If I punch a guy and he falls, did the fight go to the ground (he did for sure, but the fight...?)? I have had some "encounters" on my line of work (security, I work both as a guard and as a body guard. Previously I have been 11 months as an MP.) and I have had one fight that I considered a "ground fight". Usually the fight result was decided while standing up. Either the other guy fell from a hit (I have only succeeded in this twice with a shin roundhouse kick to just-above-knee) or usually I took him down with a lock/hold i.e. I remained standing and he went down. All these "encounters" had the common denominator: the other guy went down, but I did not. So "in my experience 1% of fights go to the ground" if I only count the fight where we continued wrestling on ground, but if it counts that one of us went down, then "in my experience 99% of fights go to the ground". But of course, some people here say my statistics are screwed, because half of my "encounters" involved weapons (the least I have is a baton, and I use it when the "customer" uses something; a drug needle is the most common weapon I have had the "pleasure" of facing). I would say that fights between BJJ students usually go to the ground, fights between TKD students usually don't go to the ground and if a BJJ student fights a TKD student, it may go to the ground.

I wasn't taught to "use" the breathing like that for anything. It just comes naturally when I focus the force properly. When you flex the lower abdomen so forcefully it builds the internal pressure and blows some of the air out from your lungs, you hear a sharp hissing sound. Again, you have to be taught a proper way to tighten your hara/tandien before this will happen naturally. A good chi kung class will help with that. I've noticed many people flex the abs "outward" when they are supposed to flex "in" to build the internal pressure, at the same time the groin and spinchter muscles are to be tightened too, again thinking "inwards/upwards" as the direction of tightening. And it must be a very, very sharp and forceful movement. That way the internal pressure is built enough to both protect the inner organs from external shock, and to give extra punch for your technique. Pavel Tsatsouline explains this quite well in some of his books and videos.

Oh, good to know, I wasn't aware of this terminology you used. Neck is a good target. It is quite large, yet easy to hit and effective. I like to strike it with the bony side of my forearm, during many closing-in techniques.

Yeah, I earlier used "Vale Tudo guys" instead of BJJ for variety. Of course I'm stereotyping a bit but so are "they". They are saying that all TMA guys are bad because they aren't fighting in UFC. My point remains, if they were interested in fighting in UFC, maybe they would have chosen a different hobby, because TMA clubs don't really offer much training for such events. TMA clubs often focus on traditional stuff, because they're interested in that. Comparing TMA with modern Mixed Arts is comparing apples and oranges. You may be into one, the other, or both, but you should have the freedom of choise.

When in close range, push your finger in and then straight down, right under his adam's apple, where you notice a "whole" right above the bone. He'll go down fast.

No, it is not ridiculous. That is actually the whole point. Let's assume you are into guns and the firing range, okay? Let's assume I'm into stick and knife fighting, okay? Let's assume person X is into unarmed fighting, okay? Um, let's assume Y is into BJJ tournaments, okay? Now, why would the BJJ guy go to the guy who's into guns, say that guns are worth nothing, unless he can beat the BJJ guy unarmed in a ring? Now, that would be ridiculous. The gun guy isn't interested in BJJ, he's interested in guns. So, now the BJJ guy starts saying, that's BS, you are just afraid you'd lose. The gun guy again says, sorry I don't train that stuff because I don't care, I like guns and I like to train with them. Then BJJ guy goes to a magazine journalist and gives an interview saying all gun enthusiasts are cowards because they don't go to UFC. As already pointed about two dozen posts ago, the guy isn't interested in that stuff! Someone is into collecting stamps. He is not interested in UFC. Someone is interested in V12 engines, not the UFC. Someone is interested in traditional samurai warrior arts, not the UFC. It doesn't make a difference where his interests lie, if he's not interested in training for the UFC, then the BJJ guys shouldn't harass him about it.