Kirves

It is quite a good book. It teaches good BJJ instead of the watered down stuff Gracies wrote their book about just to make $$$. EDIT: Hmmm.. I wonder if I replied to a question about wrong book. Here I'm talking about the Gene Simco book, not the Wally Jay book.

You both have a point. But with the recent generations the growing has been very fast. It is common that a son is almost a foot taller than the father. The difference didn't use to be so huge. The average man today in his fifties is way smaller than the twenty-something average Joe he may have to fight against.

Try these with a pal: 1. Get up close with the partner. Put your palms behind his neck, as if you wanted to pull his head towards you and/or downwards. Now he does the same on top of your arms, his palms behind your neck, trying to pull you to him. First of all, during the whole exercise, try to resist the pull, keep your neck and back stiff and act as if "no way I'm I coming closer to you", but at the same time pulling his head. Pretend you are pulling his head down for a knee strike to face. Now the one with his hands on the "inside" has the advantage. So while pulling/resisting, the one with his hands on the outside, should constantly try to get his hands pushed from under to the inside and again behind the partners neck. Thus it is a competition of getting your hands behind his neck from the inside and pulling his head down to a knee strike (which is not done in the exercise). This is very, very sweaty work and strengthens your neck muscles a lot. But this is also a basic exercise on how to clinch (there are lots of different kinds of exercises, I usually start with this). 2. After you get the hang of this, you can add knee strikes to the abdomen. These are not done in a competition fashion though! You do them one-by-one in turns. He knees your stomach, you flex your abs to receive it safely. Then after his foot has touched ground, you immediately knee him and he takes the hit with the flexed abs. Each knee strike is accompanied with pulling him to the strike from his neck (and keeping him from escaping). These exercises can help you get a glimpse of clinching and kneeing. It is very effective in real life too (add elbow strikes, head butts, sweeps, throws, traps and grappling).

Ask them: http://www.smallcirclejujitsu.co.uk/

I would definitely prefer to back down with a cuff on his wrist using his forward energy against him, as in the video, instead of going for some kind of takedown common in BJJ and starting a wrestling match. Especially if I had a uniform, baton, maybe gun, or whatever on me. Of course, I'm not saying that is a perfect technique or unbeatable one. Having said that, I don't believe there is such a technique. Also taking into consideration, that these are police officers, they are usually not alone, they can "back up to back up officers", and HtH combat is actually quite a small part of their training. They are not trained to beat the Gracies, that's why they carry batons and guns, wear wests and always work in pairs (minimum). Normal Hokutoryu training includes full contact bare knuckle training with all ranges of techniques from kicking to wrestling, and all the BJJ clubs in Finland are Hokutoryu clubs too, so they have quite a lot of technique and idea exchange amongst them, that is good. Usually, if you study Hokutoryu in a club that has BJJ, you can go to BJJ classes without paying any extra, I like that. And perfectly valid as that. This is discussion and that's what we are here for!

Just for those really interested, the link below is a small booklet about the fighting techniques that are taught and trained to everyone in the Finnish military. This is not all that is taught to professionals, but all those Finnish males who don't have a medical reason for not to do their service for the country, are taught and trained in at least these techniques, i.e. all adult males in Finland have had some training in the moves shown in the booklet. Sorry the text is all in Finnish, but there are some pictures. As anyone can see, there are very few techniques and they are quite basic but they are trained in a really alive manner and that's good. I myself was an MP team leader and we MPs got a whole lot more CQC training than what's in the booklet shown here (hey, we had to be able to control the rest of the soldiers! ) http://www.mil-liikunta.net/pdf/itsepuolustus.pdf

Of course it is just a small piece of a seminar, so you cannot judge the whole technique or concepts from the small clip. Some of the points are about how to initially hold the person in the first place, you are not just holding his hand you know... Backing up is good if a) you have room b) you have a decent lock on him and c) your technique is designed to make him lose his balance. Also, many times when a police officer is making an arrest, he is not facing a martial arts black belt. The clip was obviously not a demo on how to restraint a black belt budoka. That would be quite a task for the police officer even if he himself is a black belt - it's like two black belts fighting each other! This assumes that the opponent has co-operated this far and you are just being cautious, you are talking to him and he decides to "go for it". You are already using caution and take control immediately. In the demo case, the opponent was supposedly not a martial arts expert. BTW: the demonstrator is the head instructor and founder of Hokutoryu Ju-jutsu, which is the most popular martial art among police officers here in Finland and the neighbouring Baltic countries. Here the law prohibits too severe techniques anyway, he bleeds and to court you go.

Certainly makes it easy to cuff them!

Well, quads, hamstrings, glutes for sure. And don't forget the muscles that stretch from your groin to the knees, the ones that pull your legs together, what were they called again? You know, it's not just matter of quads generating power for the forward movement and hams to pull it back. The antagonists and the side support muscles are needed to contract to stabilize your kick both ways, and also on impact. They must not be weak.

I agree to that. Also, it is better to not wear the belt when you know you're going to run it through slime.

Yeah it is fascinating when you go see it first hand. I must repeat that I do not study any of the known "kyusho" arts, just been to some seminars. So I don't know much more than what the instructors have said on the seminars. I've also seen two Dillman videos and interviews. So I am not saying anything about the effectiveness or too scientific about these (I guess even the masters don't really know how it all works down to molecule level) but I am all for open mindedness enough to give the benefit of the doubt and go see for your self.

Yes, but it usually did not involve the officer wrestling on the ground, no guard or mount positions as such. From standing locks/throws directly to positions where the opponent is on his stomach, hands behind his back ready to be cuffed by the officer who is holding his hands. See this clip: http://www.finjutsu.com/videot/1.mov It takes a while to load, so you may want to right-click the link and choose "Save As" instead of clicking the link to directly open it.

It's rather standard modern jujutsu. The name comes from Jay's fixation on the small circular forward flexing of the wrist and how he concentrates on using it to make locks and throws powerful with it. He (correctly) states that if you flex your wrist so that your little finger turns towards the elbow, while you hold a grip on the opponent (like a wrist lock) your hand is more powerful than without flexing your wrist that way. I guess he was originally taught by someone who missed this and then he found out from other sources that this is a good way to enhance the techniques and he made it such a big deal. I have never seen a jujutsu style where this isn't used but I haven't been around that much anyway. [/i]

Martial arts are full of different traditions. If you don't like the style, just quit and go elsewhere. It's no big deal (unless the teacher injures students with his actions). Many styles have traditional ways of "punishing/encouragin" a student to pay more attention to his technique details. Some make you do pushups when your punch is weak, some slap you with a stick. Some smile and say "nah, it's okay, you'll get it right some day". There are even styles where hitting with stick is not even punishment, it's just a way to test the students' concentration focus. Go see how the Sanchin kata is done in some Okinawan styles like Goju-ryu or Uechi-ryu.

But that's my point. I'd like to ask 10 different masters, but there's no book where they are stating their stories, all in one place. You know there are at least a dozen contradicting versions of the history of Wing Chun kung fu, and they are each told separately in a book called Complete Wing Chun. It is great, the student of the art can read it all no matter which style he himself comes from or which story he believes. But if I want to hear the stories of Korean arts, I'll have to buy a dozen different books to get those dozen stories. And I'd probably have to buy more than a dozen books to get a dozen stories, as most of books available on Korean arts are sadly lacking in the history department, usually theres half a page or two of how the particular style was found 20-50 years ago and that's it. Then they show how to form a fist, how to punch, how to kick, how to counter a wrist grab and all the nonsense I'm not insterested in buying a book for.

This was not about electricuting someone to unconsciousness. It was about triggering a nerve or acupuncture point. But, please tell me, have you ever been to a competent kyusho jutsu instructor and asked him to show you? The seminars and schools are open to all. It is not like the "Yellow Bamboo" cult where they claim a dollar and show you a cent worth. You are welcomed to any public seminars and even if you don't ask to see something you will. And if you go up to the instructor and say "Hi, I'm still sceptical about this, could you please try knocking me out?", believe me, he will, you can probably ask a permission to film it on video too. After you have done this, tell me it was a hoax, didn't work. Show me a video where George Dillman tries to do his stuff on you and you just laugh when it doesn't work. I have never seen anyone accomplish that, even it was quite common a few years ago that people just marched into his seminars and said he's all bluff. None of them say a thing after that. Here in Finland we have both the Dillman organization's schools, and another art from the same roots, called European Kyusho Jitsu Tuite (https://www.ekjt.net) and they have both shown their stuff to the public, even disbelievers are almost always there "to call their bluff", somehow they never have.

Here in Finland Wado-ryu is well known for it's realistic self-defence stuff (the jujutsu-karate mix of tehcniques).

I agree with this, and would like to add one more component: the environment. Some arts are good in some circumstances, but may be bad in other.

Hmmm... I think just about any place where you might get jumped/robbed, is more like the medieval battle field than the cage. First of all, if nothing else, the assailant will have friends. That was so in the samurai wars, that is so on the streets and that is not the case in the cage. Second, the attacker and his pals, will all potentially have at least blade weapons or worse. That was so on samurai battles, and is so on the streets. Not so in the cage. Third, you can't control the surface you're attacked on. It will probably be uneven, maybe slippery, maybe littered, maybe confined, maybe full of who-knows-what stuff. That was so on battlefield, is so on the streets. Not so in the cage. Fourth, you won't find yourself fighting in the submission fighting shorts only, you may have jeans, boots, leather jacket and you may be carrying groceries, or heck maybe your own child in your arms. Your movement was encumbered on medieval battlefields and may be encumbered on the streets. You won't have these things to consider in the cage either. Fifth, it may be very dark when you're attacked on the streets. It was often dark when the samurai had to fight. It is never dark in the cage. I humbly believe that if you prepare yourself like you were going to medieval war, you are better off on the street than if you prepare yourself for the cage only. Of course a mixture would be better, but if we keep this black'n'white, then my bets are on TMA. PS. Genbukan Ninpo Taijutsu is technically just about the same as Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.

I've tried them. All I can find is books on a single art. And mostly just tech books like "all poomse of TKD", "HKD from white to black belt" and so on. I'd like something like Draeger's "The Martial Arts And Ways Of Japan" but on Korean arts, i.e. history of all the arts, what are their technical and philosophical differences, who-is-who in their history and so on. Not so much step-by-step basic technique descriptions, I'm not going to study them from books anyway.

How it works is quite simple. The same points that are used with kyusho for hitting are activated. But instead of physical hit, they are activated with electricity. The human body is full of electricity, for example any move you make is created by the brain sending an electric current (a synapse) through the nervous conduits to the muscle(s), making the muscle(s) contract. That is also how the stupid AbTronic stuff they sell you on TV-Shop work: with electric current pumped into muscle. With some practice you can focus some electricity to some parts of your body. This is actually simpler than some make it feel, for instance, every time you move a muscle you do exactly that! You focus enough electric synapses to that muscle so it moves, it is mostly subconscious for a grown man. With training, it is possible to focus so much energy to some part of your body it can literally jump across some air if there's a proper conduit available. Everyone has seen this involuntarily (try rubbing your arm with a wool pullover for a few minutes, then go touch some metal - autch! You feel the sting of electricity.) The kyusho guys train to focus their electricity so it jumps from their body to that of the recipient and "strings" a proper kyusho point(s) so the points are activated. Does this help you in a street fight? Of course not. Does it prove something about kyusho points? Maybe? Does it make for good demos? Definitely!

I've seen it done many times and I was present when it was done to my friend. It seems to work, but it is not something you do in a fight. It is just a demonstration of how the theories of human body electricity work with the kyusho points.

Terrible to the cage, yes. Because it comes from Samurai battlefield and there you had to consider terrain, dead bodies, blades and half a dozen samurai with blades all while trying to get up from the ground. Also, ninpo (BBT) assumes you might be wearing armor or other inhibiting clothing.

Yeah, I read about that too. It had something to do with Bill Wallace saying the statistic thing in UFC because it was fed to him by the organizers and later the stats were dug out and shown what they were all about.

A friend of mine who is a Shotokan brown belt, said they use wide deep stances up to black belt, then at black belt rank higher stances are allowed in kumite but not in kata. But Shotokan is no longer governed by one single organization, but several different factions and they all do their own thing.