sojobo

Wado is a Japanese Karate which was born out of its creator's expertise in Koryu Bujutsu (namely Shindo Yoshin Ryu) combined with his studies of Okinawan karate. When we talk of the Jujutsu that is found in SYR however, it probably isn't what you think of as Jujutsu - even our differing spelling of the word gives that away. No, although we do practice locks, holds, sweeps, throws and pins - I wouldn't go as far to say we were grapplers. Strictly speaking Wado does not have Bunkai (or at least not in the Okinawan sense anyway). Finding good Wado instructors these days is like finding hens teeth - and if you want to learn how to grapple - I'd find a good grappling club. Sojobo

Hello, For anyone interested, Harry Cook has another course coming up that he is co-hosting with Frank Johnson and Peter May: Details here: http://www.koshikinote.com/Home.html Sojobo

Well, it's four anyway - within the same ryu-ha. Point is, the Menkyo system is NOT traditionally Okinawan - as much as people want it to be - it isn't. Sojobo

Just out of interest, Who did Robert Trias receive his Menkyo Kaiden from? Sojobo

I don't wish to sound disrespectful (and this is not directed at your group Sensei8), but when I hear the term "Menkyo Kaiden" applied to Okinawan / Japanese Karate - my first thoughts are "marketing". It's almost as if schools have come across the words and by stating that their senior instructors have this "license" it puts them well and above the average 10th dan soke - that runs the other dojo in the mall. As for what I would "suggest" is the Okinawan term for Menkyo Kaiden?... What is wrong with Sensei? Sojobo

Robert A Trias - was a man. [edit] Correction, his daughter is called Roberta - apologies.

It doesn't, but I see little point in awarding a title which, historically, has nothing to do with the ancestry of the art – the Menkyo system is all about preserving the ryu - what is wrong with keeping an Okinawan ryu Okinawan? Another point to bear in mind when we talk about “who awards the right" - is that the Koryu dojo that awarded Menkyo Kaiden, did/do not run in the democratic fashion that many large Karate associations do today - ie with bye-laws and councils etc. They were dictatorships run from the top down by one guy. Sojobo

Are you saying that no Okinawan arts practice/use/etc Menkyo Kaiden? Historically - it does not exist. If modern groups have made it up, then that’s their business - but it is not how Okinawan arts were taught. That’s not to say they are any better or worse, but traditionally Okinawan dojo did not follow the Menkyo pattern. Sojobo

LOL...Seeing that this forum is for discussing things concerning the martial arts...I create most of my topics/thread, like this one, for the sake of us to discuss 'it' amongst ourselves; to have a friendly and informative conversation. Nothing more, nothing less. Our system has had only one Menkyo Kaiden: Our Dai-Soke. It was awarded to him by our Soke, shortly after Soke retired and just before Soke's death in 2008. This Menkyo Kaiden was over 60 years in the making; Dai-Soke became Soke's student in 1940. The reason I asked was because the Menkyo system, is uniquely Japanese. It does not apply to Okinawan arts like Karate in any shape or form. Its usage is with the Koryu Bujutsu systems of mainland Japan that have / had an unbroken lineage - in terms of transition / tuition within of the art. Remembering of course, that the Koryu systems existed purely to transmit martial / military skills to the Bushi / Samurai - they do not have syllabuses in the same way that gendai budo systems do. Instead they have a catalogue of martial techniques and methods designed to teach these. A Menkyo Keiden simply refers to the highest level of teaching license - it doesn't necessarily imply that the holder is (or is destined to become) the head of the ryu. It is recognition of the fact that the practitioner not only has a complete understanding / technical proficiency of the entire contents of the densho (that is usually achieved at Joden), but has been awarded the privilege to transmit what he has learnt (usually by the Soke of the ryu). Some ryu have additional "secret oral" teachings at Menkyo Kaiden also and with the award of said ranks comes administrative duties in some schools (others it is just a technical license). Sojobo

I am confused as to why you would ask such a thing? For starters, transmission licences are very particular to each ryu-ha. Some have appointed heads where as others have hereditary leaders. Either way, it has absolutely no bearing on how the gendai budo system works. sojobo

Hakko Ryu is related to Daito-ryu, which in turn was a major influence on Aikido, so aiki-jujutsu will feature in its makeup - which as always a good skill to acquire. Typical to most Japanese Budo, it also features a lot of work on posture, correct body mechanics and movement - as well as combative stratagems. As I understand it, some groups feature Shiatsu (massaging) in their syllabus. I hope you enjoy. Sojobo

Hi Jeffrey, I was having this conversation with a very talented young Jujutsu-ka the other day. He is a brown belt soon to go for his black belt, and when I mentioned that BB didn't really mean anything, he said "everyone that says that to me ARE already black belts". I had to concede that he had a point. Sojobo

Hi Mike, In the Wado dojo where I train, there are still only those kicks really. What has affected many Wado dojo however is the WKF style shiai kumite that many groups seem to be drawn to these days. This is where the TKD influences of the high kicks has perhaps come from in that kicks like ushiro mawashi seem to score well in these type of comps. Look into Wado's heart though and you won’t see these kicks at all because they are combatively flawed in a lot of ways - certainly within the Wado logic of thinking. But as a poster said of tradition / classical arts recently on another board I visit: The main reason for the demise of classical martial arts are: - They are too hard to learn. - They take too long to learn. - They kill and maim attackers - not strictly legal these days - They don't look C00L - They can be very boring. - There are no trophies. So I think you are also right when you say these kicks have been brought in to keep the arts "cool" in the eyes of the consumer. Sojobo

In mainland Japan anyway, the original way to wear a belt, was always with the ends tucked back into the waist of the belt, to stop them getting in the way. This was especially important if you were working on grappling or weapon work. It was in the early collegiate karate clubs, in universities like Todai, where students started to move away from this and would wear their belts with the ends dangling down - as a statement of youth / newness of karate perhaps. Sojobo

I don't that has anything to do with it but the dark side looks good now doesn't it. It is mostly an internal thing. A lot of what our club suffers from are things that have happened in the past. We are not all that political motivated as a club either. Just a good group of people. As for the links I did get the lastest book from Sensei Roberto and his DVD set. Very enlightning. Ahh cool, What did you think of the ippon kumite? sojobo

How much of this is a Shintani Wadokai vs JKF Wado-kai thing? You mentioned before that your group was on the edge - maybe time to come over to the dark side lol. sojobo ps, I have links to the dark side.

Most "atemi" based styles have (or should have) an understanding of kyusho. There is nothing magical or mythical about it. Talk to modern day professional control and restraint specialist and they will tell you the same thing. sojobo

AJ Van Dijk' group has a summer camp in Holland. Here are the details: http://www.ishikawa-karate.com/ AJ is a friend of mine and great Karateka. It will be a great course I am sure. sojobo

You could also look here: http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=402 Sojobo

Are you saying that none of the dojo you contacted practiced them? I don't think they are that common these days. I am pretty sure that many of these come from Tenshin Shinyo Ryu (in some shape or form) - and if you are interested in finding out more perhaps that would be a starting point. Downside is - there are only 2 people in the UK that I know of who have licences in TSR (one of them is my instructor). sojobo

You are correct sensei8, my bad for not checking my spelling - Hiki does indeed imply the verb to pull - it was late over here when I put that together and I got my Hiki and Hiji mixed up - point of fact though - elbow (Hiji) is instramental in the act of pulling (hiki). I see what you mean, but actually it is possible for the hand to pull and yet still not be directly behind the line of the elbows path. Go for it. Sojobo

In my group we name the principle "Hiki-te" It is a compound of the words "Higi" = Elbow and "Te" = Hand, describing the way that the elbow precedes the hand as the arm withdraws. I was always taught "feel the brush of your elbow against your side followed by your hand" - from a mechanical perspective, this makes the pull strong (as the closer you keep your pulling elbow/hand to your body the more efficient the technique is). When referring to this though, it is by way of grabbing and pulling your opponent onto/into the technique as a way to augment the process. In Karate Kihon (basics) against fresh air, I can see how the act of pulling the non punching arm could be seen as a good way to allow the student to "feel" the process of trunk rotation, however in reality of course it has to be explained that the rotational point of most "typical" karate style striking techniques is seldom around the central axis/spinal column. This is hard to get over to a new student. Sojobo

A self defense course might teach you some basics of self defense more quickly than traditional arts but you aren't getting the repetition. A couple hours on a Saturday afternoon is not going to build any muscle memory and if your brain forgets how to do the techniques you won't have anything to fall back on. I am a proponent of self defense courses but they must be an actual "course" and not a "seminar" which is usually the case. The techniques must be repeatedly drilled or you will not remember them when you need them. Engraining muscle memory through repetition of technique will mostly only make the technique better, it will not deal with more important issues around SD. Things like learning how to cope with the adrenaline rush that inevitably comes with a violent encounter and will render most people useless in the situation for example. My bad for using the word "course". As you say - it is unlikely you will learn anything of any lasting value from a course - I used the word with tongue in cheek. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of "Traditional" arts - and everything that they bring when taught properly (which is far more than SD), however RBSD's are proven to deliver results far quicker than many "traditional" systems when it comes to self protection. Sojobo

In a lot of cases, the studying of so called "traditional" arts like Karate and Taekwondo are not the most efficient way to learn self defence in fact they can be a backward step. If self defence is you primary goal then I would go to a self defence group / course - it will be much quicker. Sojobo

Depends – a lot of “Iaido” practiced today is a relatively modern take on traditional forms, practiced more for “self improvement” than for its combative content. (Which goes for most gendai Budo off course). The Iai (or Batto) done in Koryu has a different purpose. It exists solely for its combative functionality. Certainly in my group we practice against another armed opponent. I would agree that there are a number of individuals and groups that have done a great job re-incarnating these arts through research and practice, however due to the nature of the beast, a lot of it is subjective and down to interpretation – albeit informed interpretation. The drawings in a lot of the medieval fencing manuals are crude to say the least and leave most to the imagination. More importantly it is not what is shown in the diagrams – it is what is not shown ie the “gaps” in-between the positions shown. There is of course another aspect of combative engagement that is virtually impossible to transmit over text and that is mindset. In traditional Japanese Kobujutsu this was/is transmitted through sophisticated processes integral to the Ryu. They are inextricably intertwined with the practicing of technique with your instructor and there is no way that it can be “learnt” in isolation. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy aspects of all types of combative systems (ancient and modern), however in terms of “completeness”, imo there is a far greater chance of getting this from a bone-fide Koryu Bujutsu group. The stream of transmission (and therefore accuracy) is unbroken. Sojobo