Wa-No-Michi

Hot bath and rest. Pain killers are fine, but I always try to avoid anything with "Aspinol" in... for obvious reasons. WNM

I am sure I am going to get my wrist slapped here; for taking this off topic, but,” when I were a lad”, we used "bats" to play ping-pong (as it was called then), when did they become "blades"? That said, "Blades" sound a lot sexier though Getting back on topic, isn't the fact that there is always people better than you one of your drivers? It is for me but, after all, we all know that thinking that you are the best is rather "short-sighted", when actually being the best would be a bit boring wouldn't it? WNM

With the greatest of respect to Killer, isn't this the type of question you should be asking your instructor? WNM

I'm with tallgeese and Tiger here. Probably should never happen, but if it did, the very fact it escalated into a scrap would be more of a reason to lose respect for someone rather than the outcome of the fight in question. WNM

Nice video Zanshin, at the end when they are doing the hand to hand techniches. their stance seemed really neat, what is it called? Looking at the video clip, I would say the pair work was "Kumite Gata". As I understand it, the stance is "Yoko Seishan-dachi" - or at least it is supposed to be. WNM

I guess so, but then again, I don't think I would attempt to teach the layperson, the finer nuances of Pinan Yondan either. But I take your point, and hopefully you understood mine also?? WNM I see the point you are making. I don't agree with it, but I see your point. Ah well, seeing it is a start I suppose.

"Kiai" is a compound of two Japanese words: Ki=Energy (spirit) Ai = Harmony (as in Aiki-do) So in essence to "Kiai" is the process of bringing together ones sprit at the summit of the technique. It does not mean to shout per-se, (because one can perform kiai silently) and it is not representative of the sound made when one "Kiais" either. In many "Koryu" (old school) Japanese ma there are "official" words that are used and as I understand it, these carry different cadence values, and promote a different type of strength from the diaphragm. For example: "Kyup" (sounds like cup) - When initiating the attack "Toh" (sounds like toe) - when you are receiving an attack / retreating, and "Ya" (Japanese for arrow head) - when you perform the final blow. That said, I have heard "kyup" and "Ya" used when both initiating an attack and countering one and vv - but then again in exchange "Ko bo ittai" - attack and defense are one I guess. If you watch a Kendo bout you will hear these sounds. WNM

I guess so, but then again, I don't think I would attempt to teach the layperson, the finer nuances of Pinan Yondan either. But I take your point, and hopefully you understood mine also?? WNM

Michi, when we perform the kick in which the kneecap is up/horizontal, and hit with the ball of the foot, we call it a front kick, no matter if straight ahead, at 45 degrees, or to the side. When we do what we call a side kick, there are two specific ways of doing it (thrust, snap), and so it isn't confused with what we call the front kick. It's not semantics or a fixed idea; it's that we have these kicks that are executed differently, and it's necessary to give each of them a name to tell one from the other. Joe...mate, that's the point. "You" may call it a front kick if the knee cap is upermost even if the kick is performed to the side, but the rest of the karate world call any kick performed to the side... a side kick!! WNM If this is the case, then would it be incorrect to perform what we are calling a "side kick" at the beginning of this thread at the 0:36 mark of the kata link, where the "yoko geri" is performed? Yes tbh I think it would, as the kick in this particular kata is performed this way for a reason. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's about where you are in relation to your opponent after completing the technique that precedes the kick, that drives the type of kick that you do, and what you can best follow it with. Is see this sequence in this kata as more of an exercise in withdrawing from you opponent in order to create distance, defending an attack whilst simultaneously kicking and then being in a good position to be able to move in on your opponent. All of the above are performed as one sequence, not individual techniques and therefore the kick has to meet both distance and timing requirements along with maneuverability options. If we do Joe's "Alpha" kick at this stage, whilst it creates more power, it takes longer to deliver, effectively turns the hips / shoulders away from the attacker and therefore limits the options, or speed of options for the techniques that follow. I am not saying that that sort of kick doesn't have value, it just isn't appropriate for this sequence of the kata. If on the other hand we try to do this kick as a front kick, we would have to turn our hips/shoulders to face our opponent - which would afford us more power, but again take up more time and then limit the options / power for the technique that follows. So the yoko geri in question is performed in a knee up position because it's quick, achieves the correct amount of thrust (whilst not over reaching for its purpose), keeps the hips/shoulders slightly shy of perpendicular to your opponent which then gives you a greater amount of maneuverability into the next technique….and beyond. Bet you wish you hadn't asked now

Stage 1 = Mechanics (simple punch and lick (sorry bushi)) Stage 2 = Interpretation Stage 3 = Adaptation/modification Stage 4 = Application WNM

I think you are definitely right Killer, and although Wado Ryu (or at least the Wado that I understand) does not proactively promote breathing and its timing within its solo kata / ido kihon, it does manifest itself through the practice of our paired kata - Kihon Kumite. So for us, it’s a case of reverse engineering things in a way, but I still agree that breathing timing is key when interacting with an opponent. It's about getting the jump on them, in any shape or form, and in traditional Japanese ma they refer to this as the opportunity when an opponent becomes frozen or stuck even for the slightest moment. This offers you "suki" or an opening for your attack. Hope that answers your answer to my question Killer WNM

Hi Killer excellent post Ok question then if I may, what is your view on breathing and its timing in relation to how one realtes to their oponent? WNM

No skin off my nose matey Nothing wrong with trying to broaden ones horizons though maybe? WNM

Hi Joe, Maybe the linguistical difference and traits of traditional Japanese ma (and therefore its pedagogy) are too complex to convey over the ether, so I will concede that, for the purposes of this thread. In my experience however, the language used in "Japanese" Karate can vary between specifics like "Sunegeri" (Sune = shin and geri = kick, so bobs your uncle shin kick), and phrases that have more of a metaphoric relationship with the term/action. To successfully use metaphors in ma like karate requires interpretation. Interpretation is after all what the likes of Mr Abernethy with his Kata Bunkai is doing and, this is perhaps what (in part), differentiates martial art from simply self defence. WNM

Found a clip. I have no idea who this guy is (apart from the fact he is a Japanese Wado instructor based in Brazil), and obviously he is teaching / explaining the kata at a slow speed. But... at 0:36 the kick he performs is a side kick - and you can clearly hear him say "Yoko geri". Then.. later at 1:21 he performs a front kick - and you can hear him say "maegeri". They appear to be the same kick, and although their mechanical properties are very similar, they have a different purpose - in relation to the techniques / movement they follow and also precede. And yes tg, I understood every word he said and even got something out of it - which is kinda nice to know. If I fancied travelling to Brazil to train in a Japanese MA, I could still learn something new, even if there was no words of English spoken. WNM

Michi, when we perform the kick in which the kneecap is up/horizontal, and hit with the ball of the foot, we call it a front kick, no matter if straight ahead, at 45 degrees, or to the side. When we do what we call a side kick, there are two specific ways of doing it (thrust, snap), and so it isn't confused with what we call the front kick. It's not semantics or a fixed idea; it's that we have these kicks that are executed differently, and it's necessary to give each of them a name to tell one from the other. Joe...mate, that's the point. "You" may call it a front kick if the knee cap is upermost even if the kick is performed to the side, but the rest of the karate world call any kick performed to the side... a side kick!! WNM

It's the way it is in all Japanese ma (not just Karate) and chances are it is not detailed in the material you are reading because it is not pertinent to the technique they are explaining. I think my point is that one shouldn't be bound by a particular "classification". I am not suggesting that the way your school teaches the kick you are describing is not good, or correct for that matter, but the OP's question was "what is the correct way to perform side kick". I knew what he/she was alluding to, but the whole thread has rung a bell with me because you, (bushi, joe, tg) seem to have to have a rather "fixed” idea of what a side kick / kick to the side is, and therefore always performed. That doesn’t sit too well on my karate register. In my world of functionality, I would like to think that I can use every part of my body in anyway biomechanically possible as a weapon. Yoko geri in front kick foot position that I describe may not fall into the "kihon" of the typical western karate school, but it is there in the kata and kumite elements of most decent styles I can assure you. Well, I guess if all you are after is training to achieve a basic ability to kick and punch you are absolutely right. If however you really want to try to understand what makes the specific system of ma you train in truly function, what it’s “MO” is, then you are better served trying to understand the reasoning behind the theory. The theory is often derived from historical/cultural reference points and so therefore an understanding of the language(in terms applicable to ma/karate), its construction, its origins and therefore its meaning, will give you a distinct advantage if you are trying to understand the true depths of an art imo. Brian, as a fellow medieval combat enthusiast, I bet you know and understand what a “Mordstreich” is, and I bet it conjures up some great visions in your head. Or is this just me being a bit weird . WNM

See, classic point in question... I think you are looking for Kotegaeshi Kote = Wrist Gaeshi = fold, bend back, return. This is not a lock. Kotegatame is a wrist lock. Kote= Wrist Gatame = Lock / pin. The first will simply (but effectively if done well) "encourage" your opponent to go in the direction you want them to (floor probably), the latter will inflict pain as it is a mechanical lock / pin. Maybe stick to English tg. WNM

I think you are right tallgeese, As an instructor teaching ma if you don’t understand the true meaning of the terms you are using, they lack purpose - so you are better off using English. If however you purport to be an instructor of tradition Japanese Karate, you are missing a beat if you don’t understand a therefore utilise Japanese for it descriptive qualities and cadence values. This is maybe for another thread, but I honestly feel that Karatekas who are schooled in a dojo where Japanese terminology is used (and explained) correctly stand a better chance of being better at what they are attempting to do. Sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but often "Americans" are viewed as a little insular, by the rest of the world (I m not saying that you should tar every American with the same brush), but the freedom to experience other cultures through language and approach using platforms like Karate has value with great depth imo. Not going to make any difference to who wins the next "rage in the cage" fight, but Karate’s more than that isn't it? Each to their own of course. WNM

Generally speaking, in karate, side kicks or kicks that emanate from the side of your body are classified as “Yoko” geri from the Japanese meaning “side” or “beside”. This is to do with the relationship of you hips with the target – and there is no pre-ordained part of the foot you should or should not be striking with as far as I understand it. The foot position can in be in a vertical or horizontal plane. Also both Maegeri (frontward kick) and Yoko geri can be performed as a jab “Keage” or thrust “Kekomi” Confusion often arises when people use terms like “Sokuto” (which is the edge of the foot) as a “side kick” or reference to the type of kick and its intended directionality. Techniques in karate often get their name from the directionality of the technique in relation to the performer, not his oponent. So if you kick someone who is beside you with a meageri style kick (in terms of foot position) it is a Yoko geri, unless you turn your hips to face your oponent prior to releasing the kick. This is then a maegeri. WNM

As a wado-ka, I have had quick flick through Mr Johnson's books and they are ok, my personal view is that they lack depth, but then I guess what books don't.

But that’s the point Joe isn't it? What is the best way to perform side kick? OK I am being a wee bit prickly here I grant you, but point is there is no "correct way" to perform side kick. The kick your dojo labels as "Side kick" can only be taught one way... Answers on a postcard please... WNM

Wouldn't that be, um, a front kick? I guess it would if you were doing it frontward, but my understanding of a side kick, is a kick is performed in a sideward direction... Isn't it? WNM

To be clear, when performing a side kick with the ball of the foot I am referring to a kick done with the knee cap upermost, not turned to the side. WNM

I think that the ball of foot position would be more of a jabbing kick (in maegeri foot position) as opposed to a thrust / push, which I agree is correctly performed by contacting with the heel. WNM