Wa-No-Michi

Side kick (yoko geri) can also be performed with the ball of the foot can't it? WNM

It depends on what I am doing. I much prefer training on a well sprung wooden floor than most type of mats when practicing karate as I feel it gives you much better feedback and response. Jigsaw mats can be dangerous if they are not put together well or are badly maintained (lugs missing) as it is all too easy to catch your toes on them. Judo mats (tatami) can give you the same problem if they migrate apart. I snapped my toe during a display a few years back so much so it was sticking up at a right angle. And this was because I caught it in a gap. 99% of my Karate training is done on non matted surfaces, however in Daito Ryu we train on mats and to an extent it would be too tough on your body if you didn’t (with all the throws and ground work. Wado-ryu also has a lot of Nage Waza (throwing techniques) in it, but we tend to do this on solid floors anyway, as it is considered that you should learn to break fall on solid floors as this is more realistic. WNM BTW todome - I hope you don’t mind, but strictly speaking “Senpai” is written with an “n” not an “m” – as it is a compound of two Japanese words the first being “Sen” which means “before” meaning senior. In spoken Japanese however “n”s are pronounced “m” when they precede consonants like p’s and b’s. so you say “Sempai”, but write “Senpai”

In my experience, more often than not, adults that come to train at our club react more like bunnies caught in car headlights, rather than know it alls. I find adults more receptive to intelligent suggestion than kids in the most part but agreed, kids are often easier to programme because they are supposed to be at that stage. Although I am the founder of the club, I don't teach the kids "kihon" too often these days (although I did tonight), but I am the kumite coach so I do take the kids for fight training. In this perhaps, I have a different feeling as I believe you can mould kids to be good competition fighters (if you get them early enough). It’s a lot harder to do this with adults maybe. WNM

Hi Killer, Good to see the old gray cells at work here - I enjoy teaching both adults and kids (for all of the reasons you mention), but tbh I think I have come to a bit of an impasse with my own training where I feel that I can no longer teach the kids in our group as well as they deserve to be taught. I would say that the adult class that I teach is more of a study group really, with lots of like minded dan grades really drilling down into the core principles of the art. It's at a level that you just cant communicate to a bunch of kids with. I wouldn't say they could not understand it, but in the short spot that we do have to teach our kids it would be lost on 98%. So you have to teach to your strengths, and this is where I am lucky enough to have a couple of very competent dan grade senpias to run the kids classes (with the old boy sticking his nose in now and then ). WNM

Not at all Killer, I was simply trying to point out that teaching adults can be equally rewarding. WNM

Teach adults properly and in detail, and you will get similar feedback, but perhaps for a better reason. WNM

Some argue that the Macedonian King Alexander the Great, was in some part responsible for the introduction of a "codified" fighting system into India after his troops conquered northern India c. 325 bc. So The India thing could have been preceded by ancient Greece in theory at least. Either way, I think it is important to bear in mind that most civilization had a fully developed "indigenous" system of fighting. WNM

Luckily I continue to have many "epiphanal" moments in karate, but doing Kata back to front, inside out and mirror image etc., has never been one them. There is enough to learn in kata when it is done in the correct direction imo and quite frankly i feel that trying to do kata backward, is a waste of your valuable time that could be better spent drilling down into other aspects (application, correct form, correct movement and purpose etc.). Instructors who "pad out" their lessons with this type of stuff, give me the impression that they lack an in depth understanding of the kata itself. That said I don't teach Children these days (can you tell why!!) and these sort of games can be useful when trying to keep children engaged. WNM

Did you get in trouble over that at all? WNM

The only problem I have with the word "stance" is that it sounds so static / dead. I don’t think I have a preferred stance. I move into what I need - correct movement is the key to fighting imo. WNM

tallgeese, How would you tie that back into your kata training? WNM [edit] BTW the Japanese term "Shiai" can be translated as contest or match. Kendo-ka compete in Shiai for example

Another thought to throw in: Given that the different styles (of karate for example) often promote specific emphasis / approach as to how to move within varying techniques found in their Basics, Kata and Pair work etc., has anyone got any views on how is the correct way to move during kumite according to the approach their style promotes? Another thing is that I supose it comes down to your take on sparing. Is it the kumite practiced as in"shiai", or are you after mixing it up a bit? Either way, I definitely feel that free sparing well and truly has its place in the dojo. Do we all need to move like the WKF style fighters who come form a variety of backgrounds when we do our semi contact sparing in the dojo? As I mentioned in another post, the key to applying techniques found within your karate is how you bridge that gap between your kihon, kata and pre-arranged sparring etc. with your kumite. Answer = A good sensei + lots and lots of hard work in the dojo with like minded training partners. After all, learning karate basics without knowing how to apply them correctly is like learning to swim on sand. WNM

Good post Killer. Just on points 3 & 4 the process and order can be expanded further as follows: Kaisetsu = Application of movements exactly as they appear in Kata against a third party. Kaishaku = Interpretation of the kata movements - as they would be performed against a thrid party Bunkai = Analysis or dissection of techniques and movement found within the kata - in order to assist in greater depth of Interpretation / creativity. In answer to Busindo_mans question, Wado karate does not typically utilise the process Bunkai. As I understand it, this in most part due to the pedagogy that Wado employs - which is tends to be more in Keeping with traditional Japanese martial arts. We tend to use 1,2 and 3 of on Killers list, after which the karate is further realised through numerous yakusoku kumite, paired kata and oyho kumite drills eventually leading to jiyu kumite - (free sparing). WNM

In the pinan versions as practiced in Wado-ryu we do not perform the rising knee (or Hiza age), so I will bow to Sensei8 superior knowledge here. If we did do it though, at a stab, I would say that it is pulling your leg out of the way of a kick / sweep. Then dropping into Shiko-dachi / Kiba-dachi. Again open to interpretation - but I like your senseis approach. WNM

Ahh, and there you have it perhaps, the skill is in how best to "interpret" things. Chances are I am wrong, but if I remember correctly TheHightlander is just starting out on his/her journey, so to me its all about keeping it "actual"; simply learning the solid platform of embusen onto which he/she can build Well they do, but it needs great skill to migrate from kata to kumite. Not sure I have it, but I am enjoying learning / trying. WNM

My bad! I didn't realize that! Sorry! No Problems I just worried I might be dead or something lol. WNM

No I dont feel that they should be set in stone, but I also feel that some skill is involved in interpreting techniques / movements, so they remain practical. The term Bunkai doesn't tend to be used by the senior Japanese Wado-ka instead they tend to refer to Keisetsu or the "physical commentary" of a technique. It tends to be an explanation of the technique more or less exactly how it appears when performed in the kata. So blocks can be strikes, chokes, throws etc etc, but it is demonstrated exactly how the technique would be performed whilst doing the kata. This allows the karate-ka to visualise their karate whilst performing the kata and to give it intent / purpose so it does not become igata perhaps. This is different to Bunkai as I understand it, as Bunkai is a defined process of dissecting and rebuilding into something else. WNM

In nutshell, for me as a Wado-ka, it is correct form. The varying kata all act in slightly different ways to promote different key principles - stamina, endurance, musclular control, balance and stability etc. For me, I think that there is a risk that if you rush to try and fulfill fancyful bunkai, you may be mising the bigger picture. Of course ohyo (or application) of techniques should exist, this is where perhaps for me your yakusoku kumite would come in to play, gradualy leading on to jiyu kumite. This bridge is not an easy one and really does need an experienced instructor to help your cross it. WNM

And why are you referring to me in your post in the third party?

No one has mentioned Bunkai ! I think TheHighlander, was talking about learning the "embusen" and Waza as it should appear in the Kata, not Bunkai. The latter is a separate process that exist to extract from Kata. Not the Kata itself. I deliberately steared way from the B word. My comments were based on my understanding as to how the kata should be performed - and transmitted from master to student. This is where you need the guiding hand of a good knowledgeable sensei imo. To guide students and allow them to realise their kata without straying too far off the path. If the lines between Kata performance and the results of bunkai become blured, there is a risk that the intended larger purpose for practicing katas could be lost. WNM

Right Bushido_man. Uke or Ukemi has its origins in the reference to the person who "receives"a technique in paired kata / waza The term block in its literal sense does not translate directly into Uke as to block implies to immediately stop something in its path. Uke to receive on the other hand implies force is not met with force but rather the energy is redirected. This is why the first techniques in pinan sandan should be approached (in terms of kata performance at least) as redirecting techniques (blocks as we know them in karate) and not offensive techniques. But a block is a strike and a strike a block etc. There is no reason why a Gedan Barai could not be performed with the intention of using the tetsui (bottom fist) as a strike to the opponents groin. But now we have moved away from kata performance and are entering the realms of Ohyo. WNM

You can interpret them how you like. But strictly speaking when performing the kata, they are blocks. WNM

If we are talking about the sequence at the start of the kata, they are blocks not punches. Soto-uke and barai-uke done in unison. From the brief desciption you have given, I would say your head sensei is more on the money, but remember you will always learn from others, so I would ask the assistant instructor as to his take on this move. WNM Ps welcome to the Forums

Do you compete Traymond?

It sounds like its very different in the US but here in the UK there are very few clubs that I know of that ask someone to sign a waiver / disclaimer. Why... because they are often not worth the paper they are written on and any good litigation lawyer worth their sorts, would argue around it anyway. Quite often in the past, insurance companies would ask clubs to get students to sign these waivers, in order to act as a first line of defence, should the club (as their client) have a claim brought against them, but in the most part they have dropped that "fighting on the back foot approach". Nowadays, they tend to be more "proactive" and require the insured to prove that they have a good "Health and Safety" approach to teaching; correct Risk Assessments and teaching plans in place with coaches who are trained to the appropriate standard. Particular emphasis is placed on teaching minors (and people who are vulnerable), and for this reasons clubs are required to have a "Child Protection" policy in place. Why... because these are the types of things lawyers find hard to argue around. Given that American law is broadly based on British law, I wouldn't mind betting the same rules will (if not now maybe later) effect you. And... I think we have been here before Traymond but, just because you might not see fit to bring charges against your Sensei for what he did; in the uk at least, this would not stop the authorities bringing charges against him. Because its abuse. WNM