Wa-No-Michi

Well, maybe Funakoshi was struggling to find away to achieve grade advancement, given that the model he was trying to follow did it solely by a simple concept of .. "If you beat this fella(s) who is (are) currently X rank (by fighting) you will be advanced to X + rank Prior to Kano's creation of the belt ranking system, there was no such thing in Traditional Japanese MA. Certificates of competence were awarded by the head of the particular group - but this was more about the ability to "transmit" the art as I understand it -rather than the ability to beat down any given oponent by using it (although logically one should lead to another - I suppose). As the big man says... keep it coming fellas this is good stuff. WNM

Sorry guys, You are the experts here, I can only offer some suggestions. I deffinatley can't answer Toptomcat's specific question as I understand it - Could be the blind leading the blind here, but when I read this - the words that jumped out were "assigning of rank" Given that Funakoshi wanted to apply a similar grade ranking system to that of Judo (in which as I understand it, grade advancement was achieved through Kumite bouts or "Shiai"), is it possible that he yielded to the idea as he felt that the belt system was important to the propagation of his art - in order to keep it on the front pages along with Kano's Judo? Maybe he came round to Shiai as being a means to an end - ie grade advancement, rather than suggesting Karate enter the sporting Arena through the practice of Shiai? Just a thought. WNM [Edit] modified to make more sense

Hi Toptomcat, Not being a "Shoto" person, I can only say that it is fairly well documented that "sparring" was at least one of the points that Ohtsuka and Funakoshi did not see eye to eye on. Maybe look at some of Harry Cook's - "Shotokan - A Precise History" might give you some answers. Certainly has a section on Shotokai. https://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes/Pages/ShotokanJNE.htm WNM

But to study kata correctly, you have to understand it (on a conceptual level). Kata doesn't work if you are not taught to think outside of it. As Otsuka sensei writes - "Enter into Kata then withdraw from Kata"... to produce forms with no limits - to rely on trained instinct rather than "habit" One should not get "stuck" in them!! The Japanese have an expression "Igata" - which literally speaking refers to a "mould" from which you would re-produce 1000's of identical replica pots. It is important to avoid "Igata" when training in Karate kata. This is why you need a good sensei to explain how Kata based karate ticks, in order to get the most out of it (as opposed to an "online tutorial" (by the "bunkai master" and the likes)). Another important fact to take into consideration is that we are all built differently - particularly here in the west, which is not so much the case in Asia where bodies are far more standardised (or at least used to be). WNM

As I said, Then.... All = "Shu-Ha-Ri" A "thankfully" unavoidable byproduct of studying a martial art - both it... and the student studying it will, and should continue to evolve. No point otherwise. WNM

As far as the order you learn Kata in, I guess its a case of some schools do it in a specific order - as "pre-ordaned" by their group, whilst others are more relaxed, and occasionally jump forward and backward a little. I will do the latter from time to time - and if I feel like teaching Naihanchi kata and there is a white belt in the class, I will teach it to him/her also. Thing is though, a white belt won't get Naihanchi, because they don't have the basic tools to understand it. So, no disrespect intended NewLevel, but it whilst it was an interesting look into the future for you (and ok on the odd occasion) it would be wrong of your instructor to focus purely on teaching you Naihanchi at your stage of learning. He/she would be doing you no favours. Then of course there is "Shu-ha-ri" - in that two instructors are unlikely to teach the same kata identically, as they will be at different developmental stages (and levels of understandinging) themselves. Karate clubs are organic, as are instructors, students and styles - they are always growing and developing....this is the shu-ha-ri of things. So it stands to reason that kata is going to be taught differently in this respect also. WNM

That's an understatement! Kata's do, but, they should and they shouldn't. Huh? "Traditionalists" instructors will keep the Kata's the same within the style through and through. Nothing, for example, will be changed from one Shotokan Dojo to another "Non-Traditionalists" instructors will change the Kata's as they see fit based on the preferences of that instructor. Example....ABKA founder Denny Holzbauer, Judan, uses the Heian Kata's in his ABKA, BUT, he made changes to each of them to be unique to his style that he founded. His background: 7th Degree Black Belt (Sichidan) Sei Bu Kan Shoto-Kan and 5th Degree Black Belt (Godan) Kyokushin-Kai Kan. Is either right? I don't know; ask them! Their answers shouldn't surprise you. Shu ha ri ? WNM

No sweat, sorry if I came over a bit rude. Well, I think I would struggle to define what "Purist" wado meant anyway tbh . For example, is it "purist Wado" to teach the likes of Tanto-dori and Shinken-shirai-dori (aka Tachi-dori) when Otsuka himself never "formally" taught this to anyone (as far as I am aware)? WNM

UM….Please do not take this the wrong way, I mean no disrespect, but two things come to mind; 1) Why are you asking me these questions? And 2) You mentioned that you viewed my website, why didn’t you just read my bio if you are interested about me?? It is fairly detailed. No offence taken Seija, but in answer to your points raised: 1. I ask these questions because the thread is entitled "Are you a student of Wado". Most students have teachers, and I was wondering who yours was now in Wado. 2. I read the website you have detailed, but forgive me, there are a number of bios on there and I don't know which one is yours, as I dont know who you are. As you know Wado has an ever increasing number of strands these days. This is not to imply that the quality of wado is deteriorating with these divisions, but personally I like to understand where a school has its origins (ie WIKF, JKF Wado-kai or Renmei). When you said that you used to be a member of the Renmei, but were not any more, I wondered whether you were associated to, or taking instruction from one of the other groups. Thats all WNM

Thanks for that Seija. As far as Wado goes though, where do you get your guidance from now? WNM

Hi Seija, Looking at your group's website, I see your badge is very similar to that of the Renmei. Are you part of the Renmei? WNM

Vierna, As my old sensei used to say to me - "michi-san, it's what you do on tatami that counts". At shodan (for example), you've just got to demonstrate to the examination board, that you have started to apply thought to your karate. They don't expect you re-write the Bubishi. WNM

Cheers anyway, I'll thank Mr Ohgami for you personally next time I train with him WNM

It is isn't it?... I Have been bogged down with work the last few weeks so haven't been able to train, so I can tell you that I envy everyone that has. So yep, don't take it for for granted I say. WNM

I think that WNM has a good suggestion here. I imagine just with these two classifications, you could get a lot of writing material for hand techniques. Applications, what and why, of each of these two types might be a good place to start. Not mine, Mr Ohgami's. But thanks anyway. WNM

You are welcome. Best of luck with your training. WNM

I think this is more what they have come to represent. "Dansei" is the Japanese for male (I guess you could extrapolate Dan from this), but i am not sure that "Kyu" means boy as "kun" is boy as far as I understand. But I guess the Senpai / Kohai relationship is constant in your description. WNM You really have to look at the kanji and context. Japanese has a more limited sylablery than English and thus has lots of repeat usages of the same sounding word: As you can see: 男性 ＝dansei = man/masculine ...is totally different from... 段 = dan = black belt rank Also, both kanji dan (段) and kyu (級) mean basically just "class," "grade," "rank" or "step." There is no other meaning to my knowledge (well, not relevant ones anyway). Lastly, the kanji for "kun" (君) not only means "young boy," but is also used for "kimi" or　a casual way of saying "you." I have no reason to believe there is any common origin (nor radicle similarity might I add) with kyu (級). Thank you very much for this Shizentai - much appreciated. Clearly my "Nihongo" is not up to same par as yours, but I kinda knew I wasn't that far off the mark. WNM

As I say, "Introduction to Karate" ISBN 91 9702 31-16 WNM

Blimey sensei8 your boardering on zen with this one. A good friend of mine refers to his Karate training as his "white pyjama theropy" - meaning that no matter what sort of day he has had, he always feels better after training. I think it was Funakoshi sensei who wrote when asked why he practiced Karate? .... "To get better??" WNM

Hi Vierna - and welcome to the forums. As tallgeese suggests, your question is very broad. Maybe you should ask your instructor as to his/her interpretation of the word "te-waza" as it could differ from others here. Fwiw though, Shingo Ohgami has a section in his book (Introduction to Karate) entitled "Hand Techniques", in which he explains that attacking techniques using the hand can generally be divided into: Tsukiwaza - Or thrusting techniques ie front punches or strikes that are delivered like a piston to their target with the wieght of the pody directly behind the thrust. Uchiwaza - Or techniques with an angle between the attacking technique (shuto or Uraken for example) and the arm. Unlike Tusuki Waza the full weight of the body is not directly behind the technique, rather the striking hand makes a circular movement around the elbow/shoulder. Short range techniques (like elbow strikes) are sometimes referred to as Atewaza, but again the principles are either Tsukiwaza or Uchiwaza. There are of course infinite amounts of hand positions that can be adopted with the above. I hope that helps WNM

Were you insured? WNM

I hate to say it but, golf probably I also agree with Tiger, you have to have something outside your ma - it shouldn't be your "be all and end all". In fact, most of the best martial artists I know have other "greater" passions ie rugby, acting, windsurfing??? It is possible to "burn out" in ma terms and sometimes I think we are all ma addicts in some respects. Like everything in life, it's all about balance – everything in moderation. WNM

Starting your own club is fine, but I guess this is why so many college/uni club's instruction is what it is....transitory. Also you are at uni/college ...imo you should explore - have fun - learn rather than teach. Make the most of it I would say. You will have plenty of time for teaching later. WNM

Not by everyone tg WNM

Quite a few of my students who started with me at a young age have gone off to uni, only to come back to tell similar stories. I think the problem with Uni clubs is that they can be quite transitory in this respect - in that the longest a student is going to train with them is 3-4 years. The problem with this, is that both student and teacher work to this end. Ultimately you end up in the position that DWx describes where the student is happy to be left alone, and teacher is happy to oblige. I am not sure that does anyone any good in the long term, and it takes a very special calibre of teacher to avoid this. I think Bushi's point is valid, and you have to be open minded in this respect, but also I don't think you can blame a student who has spent years trying adopt the methods and principles of their instructor, only to be presented with a different set and ask them to adapt. Particularly if the are close to what you are used to but still not the same. Arguably it becomes easier to train with a group that does their ma similar to yours (but not quite), when you have a full grounding in your way of doing things. With no disrespect to DWx or the topic starter, you are not going to have that grounding at University age (even if you are due to test for your 3 degree). So, unless you fall into a group that is identical to your own (which is unlikely) or come across an exception instructor who teaches a style vaguely comparable to yours (which is even more unlikely at a Uni club), I would go for something completely different. My latest student to go off to uni has started training at a kendo club. He emailed me recently saying how much he was enjoying it and how many similarities he was finding in it to karate. So thats a positive experience I would say, whereas training with a sensei who just lets you get on with it, is rather negative by comparison. WNM