Wa-No-Michi

The term Aiki (合氣) is a compound of two Japanese words: Ai = to Join Ki = Spirit Very simplistically put - "Aiki" is a term used to describe the principles of blending the "energy" of attack with defence – on a physical and mental level. As well as other concepts such as atemi (or striking) the principles of "Aiki" were incorporated within the workings of many Koryu schools under the banner of "Aiki-Jujutsu". So "Aiki-Jujutsu" is not so much a style by itself, but a concept or method with which a style applies their techniques - in order to make them work. Aikido's Morihei Ueshiba was a student of Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu for example. Essentially the principles of "Aiki" are the same within say Aikido and Daito-ryu, however the latter is was designed to be a fully functional battlefield art, whereas Ueshiba's Aikido was designed to be more "practicable" by the masses - with perhaps different goals (of self improvement over martial functionality). It’s the do vs jutsu thing coming into play again. I hope that helps. WNM

Bingo... Abernethy never claims that ground grappling techniques exist in the katas. In fact, in his books, he has stated that the katas do not contain any grappling (as far as ground fighting goes). To your knowledge, WNM, does Abernethy abandon what you describe in your posts as the essences of Wado? I don't know what his class layouts are, so I don't know the answer to that one. Mr Abernethy (and his Wado) was discussed a few years back on the Wado egroup of which I am a member. The consensus of opinion was - that although it could be said that Abernethy was Wado (or at least from a Wado background) - What he is doing and the way it is done (ie his Bunkai-Jutsu) was not. Now don't get me wrong, that doesn't make it a bad thing, but equally it doesn't make it Wado either. Wado works the way it does. Take the "essences" (as you put it) out of it, and its katas simply become a list of techniques. To be fair to him though, I have never met the guy, and in the little material I have read / seen, he does not claim to be doing Wado. He just uses wado katas as a base to work from I guess, because they are recognisable amongst most of the major Karate styles. WNM

So do I (we in the "Royal" Wado sense ). That's why in addition to our kata training (which goes part way there to teaching us the principles of movement found within Wado), we have an inordinate amount of pair work / paired kata (compared to other styles) - within which one can hone specific technique, in tandem with the correct ways to move - culminating in "Jiyu Kumite" or free sparing. Reality has always been at our centre. WNM

Why rush? Personally I wouldn't put a time span on these things. Go to college and have a blast (thats what the law says you have to do). If you find a compatible TKD group then thats a bonus. If you don't, learn something completely different like Kendo or Olympic wrestling. Either way, you can come back to your belts later... Its not a race as your dad would say

Bingo...

Since it was you that asked tg, I feel you deserve the best response I can give. What the author was doing imo, was nothing more than "bog-standard" Jujutsu as far as I could see. Doing his best to "shoehorn" these techniques into something that could be linked back to karate basics. Now; I have got no problem with this "reverse engineering" approach within the term karate (in its broader sense), but from a wado perspective there is a serious risk that you do so at the expense of learning the more important principles behind within the art. Or at least this is how it feels for me. Remember these are basics. Take for example shuto-uke (knife hand block) which in Wado is performed to Jodan.... If I remember correctly, the author shows an example of this where he pulls and twist his opponent’s arm down to his left hip, so as to accelerate his right hand impact in shuto strike to his opponent’s neck! Nothing wrong with this per-se, but imo we do not train Wado shuto (in its basic form anyway) for this reason. We train it in order to perform techniques in "nekoashi". We use it to learn how to enter into you opponent whilst simultaneously "opening" our hips in the opposite direction to way the blocking/striking arm is going... "Double moment" as Shingo Ohgami sensei would refer to it. Imo the "hikite" arm should not have the feeling of pulling, as applying an external force affects the "synergy" of the technique, its timing and purpose. Instead your thoughts should be on how your hips are opening into "nekoashi" - particularly when interacting with a live opponent. Learning this "double moment" movement is also critical towards training "Kuzushi" (balance breaking technques) - found a lot in high level Wado (BTW I say Nekoashi meaning in terms of the relationship with your hips to your opponent) The theory being, that if you embed these principles of movement into you Wado, the application of simple techniques will become instinctive and effective. Movement is key. So, what he was showing imo were simply "techniques" that yes, are found in wado katas, but he has taken them completely out of context - which is very un Wado - imo. Bet you wished you hadn't asked now WNM

Yes.

I always go training with a note book, sad I know, but that's me. I scribble down as many notes as poss. (particularly if I am training with someone I don't train with regularly), and when I get home I try to give myself a quiet hour to write my note out long hand. It a very cathartic experience, and if you think about it, it’s the only way us old fellas had to record our lessons back then before the age of digital media and the internet. Nothing wrong with digital media and the internet of course, just different maybe? WNM

Youtube is your friend WNM

Your right bushi... I do tend to get caught up in my own little Wado world. No excuse, but actually the author of the article in question is from a Wado-based group! WNM

Toptomcat, What MA experience do you have? WNM

But as they say... Kata is Kata, and Kumite (application if you like) is Kumite. My point was driven by your earlier post Well that's a moot point... are they? or are they better placed to help teach us how to move? I remember having this discussion with tallgeese who (not being a trad Karate guy), openly suggested that he struggles with the concept - as to why Kata is trained in the first place... If you want to learn basic locks holds and throws, then go to your local trad Jujutsu club. They will show you far better than any Karate guy will. If it’s the above, plus ground work then maybe check out someone like TG (he talks more sense than most here I feel). So why practice solo Kata then - particularly if you are not going to be shown how to apply the "possible" techniques properly? Simple I think... movement... like shadow boxing... to hone movement etc. The technical application as to how to make it work (to join up the dots) can then be more easily explained... by the big man as it were. This is typically done through the process of "Kaisetsu" ->>> Yakusoku Kumite >>> and then Jiyu Kumite (free fighting). Its very difficult to work this stuff out for yourself though, so no harm in reading these sort of publications but do it under parental supervision as it were. WNM

Damn you tasty beef patties!!! I feel the need to take myself off to the corner of the dojo to do the purest of Junzuki 100 times. After that, I'll go down the pub probably. You know, to replace lost fluids. WNM

...And whilst on the subject of Japanese Karate there is a course Wado-ryu, which gets most of it workings from traditional Japanese Jujutsu. Arguably it is more Japanese than both Shotokan and Kyokushin.

Hold on... We were talking about forms weren't we? You guys just want to want to rush on don't you WNM

Hmmmnn..... Burger!! WNM

I would say that first and foremost forms are full of oportunities to learn:- - Technique (in its basic form "Kihon") - Timing and distance - Principles of movement - Transition between stances - Weight distribution - Understanding of external forces (gravity) - Stability - Zanshin (awareness) To name but a few. For me at least, the above list represents a greater reason to practice solo kata over and above the desire to extract potential "Jujutsu- esque" applications from the form. This comes a bit later - building blocks as I say. Its all in the movement guys... get that right and the rest will fall into place. WNM

This is an interesting point wouldbemaster. Whilst I accept that Otsuka himself was alleged to have suggested that Wado was not finished/complete - I think this was meant in terms of Shu-ha-ri. Granted it is the responsibility of all of us to experiment and learn from this, but I think this has to be done with a note of caution. Was Otsuka a Maverick? - I think this term could be a little misleading and might suggest to the less informed amongst us that because Otsuka studied a variety of karate styles before developing his own, then this somehow makes it OK for us to do - in fact it is what he would have wished!! Maybe it was, but my intuition tells me that there was far more to Otsuka (and the development of wado) than this for the following reasons: 1. From what I have read (and been told by people more informed than me) Otsuka's journey in the martial world started more or less from the day he was born. He was brought up in a culture surrounded by budo. His martial training was in an era when it could truly be viewed as a way of life - he was immersed in it, which is a far cry from the training that most of us receive today at the Karate club in the local church hall once or twice a week. So really he was already a highly qualified and skilled martial artist years before he embarked on his journey to learn Karate. 2. Arguably, Otsuka did not seek to learn Karate in order to make his martial skills better per-se (or at least in the way that most people cross train today). This is where the confusion arises imo - He was already well accomplished in this area. More realistically, he saw in the newly emerging art of Karate an opportunity. He saw a "vehicle" which he could modify in order to bring a kind of structured pedagogy to his vision of Jujutsu, and promote his new proposed artform under the banner of "karate" to boot. Factor into this the feeling of nationalism at the time (discussed earlier with the issue of Justu Vs Do) and a picture starts to emerge. Take the Okinawan model of Kata and Bunkai (how they are trained and for what reason), and compare it with the Wado model of kata>> kaisetsu>> Paired kata>> Jiyu Kumite - and they are two distinctly different means to the same end. The above does not sit comfortably with many Wado-ka who like to look to other styles and arts in order to fill in the gaps, but it makes total sense to me, when you consider comments that Otsuka has been noted to say including: "Okinawan Karate is to Wado as a pinch of salt is to a stew" So, was Otsuka a maverick who sought to question / challenge his existing knowledge and the training he went on to receive from other karate master - or did he already have a clear vision as to what he was trying to achieve and did it off the bat of Okinawan Karate? Food for thought maybe? WNM

To be honest, I can see your point, but I am trying to come at it from another angle. I see my job as a student of Wado is to try to learn the Wado katas developed by Otsuka (who's Budo/Martial experience outweighs any of us on this mortal coil), then try to understand them in terms of how they fit into the Wado kumite spectrum of things and ultimately work in concert with the wado pair work / paired kata and ultimately kumite. Ippon/sanbon Kumite Ohyo Kumite Kihon Kumite Idori Tanto Dori Jiyu Kumite etc etc Its completing the circle of "Wa" as it were - not easy but great fun. The key thing is - it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you arrive as a good Wado-ka. As they say - Each to their own WNM

Hi Brian, Good post, sounds like we are definitely on the same wavelength. My group is a traditional Wado group affiliated to the JKF - Wado-kai, and as such our meat and two veg in Kata terms is the pinans up to and including Chinto. We also practice the remaining six kata in the "nominal" 15 and some of us were fortunate enough to have also been taught Suparenpei - but to be honest, I am of a mind that there is more than enough involved in learning the main 9 - but the other 5 or 6 from Bassai and Wanshu upwards are good fun and if they keep you interested then why not. To be honest I have never felt compelled to try and make up my own kata, I'm not saying it would be a bad thing, but in the same light, I personally feel I have more than enough to take on board with the first nine, let alone trying to make up more. I agree though that one should not become "stuck" in your kata or allow it to become "igata" as the old boy says. Our creativity when it comes to Kata practice tends to be more along the lines of "Kaisetsu" (better word that Bunkai ) -we do encourage our students to "think outside the box" on these but whilst still utilising the Wado principles. WNM

Seansei8 I read your post and thought now we are getting somewhere. The problem with techniques being presented in such a way as "bunkia" is the fact that they are lacking the key fundamentals of engagement imo - without which techniques like these simply won’t work as well as they could. As you say these are things that are supposed to happen even before any wrists are grabbed. Things like: -Set up and dynamic interaction between you and your opponent -Correct distance and trimming -Evaluating your opponent’s size and build when considering balance breaking techniques (Kuzushi). -Maintaining correct posture and centre lines (again interactively between you and your opponent). -Using stratagems to set up a counter - ie presenting an opportunity for your opponent to attack you in the way that you want them to. Recognising opportunities and/or creating openings if they are not immediately apparent. In Aikido (and Wado) for example techniques are often "loaded" to encourage an opponent to push against them (human nature). By removing this loading the opponent falls into the space you have created - basic principle of Aiki. I think you are right sensei8 in that only a good instructor can really explain this, as without the above key ingredients if someone tried to pull off any of these techniques in the street they will probably find they won’t work too well. But as I say, interesting read and great if it gives you something to think about during training. WNM

Indeed, How likely do you think though you are going to be presented with the oportunity to grab the wrist in such a way that that you can turn it and pull it toward your body to affct a technique? WNM

Interesting read, but to be honest a little shallow. Don’t get me wrong, I think these sort of articles have a place in terms of focusing the mind maybe, but equally I would be a little cynical about taking the applications shown too literally; after all Kihon (basics) are just that at the end of the day building blocks to engender correct form. Imo they are not supposed to suggest application, that’s a little further down the road – but as I say, no harm in giving yourself something to “visualise” whilst you are training – but the ideas presented are nothing more than that. I have already nailed my colours to the mast with reference to Mr Abernethy (Matthew Miller is a Nidan in the Chojinkai as well I believe), so we won't go there, but here's a thought maybe... In all honesty, how easy do you think it is to actually grab someone’s wrist during an exchange of fists - next to impossible I would suggest. However to give the author the benefit of the doubt, let’s say they your attacker was trying to grab your wrist (or other part of your body) - possible but I would suggest that the chances of you grabbing theirs wrist at the right time (in the Mêlée) was also next to nowt - so I don't buy the wrist grab and turn thing at all I am afraid. The author also refers to a “safer” approach to practicing the techniques that has derived from Wado ryu’s Kihon Kumite. I must say (as someone reasonably well versed in Wado Kihon Kumite), there is a kind of poetic irony here, as none of the 10 kihon kumite contain such a wrist grab and turn – or not at least in the way the author is describing it. That said at least he is thinking about Kihon Kumite in which more accurate answers lie I would suggest - in terms of evasion, brushing, parring and entering etc. I do try to be open minded about these things, but I am afraid I see this article as yet another (among many) by a “slightly informed” karate-ka as a way to try and join up the dots. No harm in having a read but don’t take it as gospel. WNM

Hi wouldbemaster, My guess is that my knowledge of the Japanese language is no better than yours. And it sounds to me like you have just as good a handle on your Wado training as I do. Anyway, it’s all words at the end of the day imo when really, what counts is action... how you move and how your training develops your martial brain. It is my understanding that this is why the practice of Wado katas differ (in terms of purpose) to their okinawan ancestors - as they are primarily practiced to develop correct principles of movement over and above the process of bunkai. I kinda think though that this can only work (be understood) if they are practiced in conjunction with appropriate pair work such as Kihon Kumite. Outside of this, techniques are just that... techniques... tricks if you like, and for me that’s the good thing about Wado as at the end of the day when practiced correctly, it is a very simple blue print of principles. That’s it for for me anyway in terms of where I am in my training. Do you practice a lot of Kata in your group wouldbemaster? If so what ones and how. WNM

Do you train with Mike Spain? WNM