Wa-No-Michi

I wish I had the time, Wa-No-Michi, especially as a single parent. It's also tougher to recuperate when you're in middle age (will be 57 in January). But thanks for the advice. Much respect to you Joe, I know how hard it is as a parent. Didn't mean my comment to be disrespectful in any way. It will come though with a bit of mat time, and its better it takes as long as it does for you to realise this yourself.

Nothing, I train for free. I charge my students £ 4.00 per two hour session on a pay as you train basis (if you dont train you dont pay). Thats about $2.50 by todays rate. No contracts. Contracts are for the devil lol.

Shouldn't we training in our experiences rather than talking about it anecdotaly as it were. Joe, you're a great bloke and and all that, but I think you've got to spend a little more time on the mats. This way you will know what works best for you.

So if I don't want to do that, should I give up?

Kata.

Of course you should never automatically assume. Actually Tallgeese, I am a "traditional" martial artist (I don't know if that therefore makes me a modern traditional martial artist), and I agree, that your chances of finding an instructor who can transmit these precepts are incredibly rare these days. Probably less than Joe's 2%. Therefore I genuinely think that a student will give themselves a far better chance of realising this if they steered well away from traditional based arts and went for the contemporary option. So; should all of us Traditional Martial artists come to our senses and realise that the arts (that some of us have been practicing for over 20 years) will "probably" NOT work in a fight, and start training in MMA? Rhetorical question of course.

Also, I think if you a practicing (seriously) an eastern based ma you are probably doing it anyway - even if you don't realise it.

I think you are right swadoryu2000, you should always do a kata with meaning and purpose...alive! otherwise it becomes "Igata" which is a japanese word for a mold or cast. In other words it is robotic. The key here (for me at least) is that I am learning how to move (taisabaki), whilst performing the various techniques that are found within the katas. Its not about the techniques per-se.

I can see how that comes in, the way you describe it. I think that it is important to realize that forms practice is a sterile environment, where everything is clean and crisp, whereas when it comes to resisting application, the appearances of things can change a bit. So, its important to get good practice sessions in on both. Yes, training in both Kata and application is vitally important, but when the lines between the two begin to blur this is where I struggle to accept these sort of suggestions, as it seem to remove such a lot of purpose for doing the kata in the first place.

Hi unknownstyle, Have you got any thoughts so far? To date its been just me and swdadoryu2000 who have done all the talking. Not bad considering that the word Bunkai doesn't really figure in the traditional Wado vocab. Surprised some of the Shotokan / Shorinryu boys haven't been all over this like a rash.

And of course I mean confucian not confusion. Blimin spell check!!!

I don't get too hung up on the zen thing tbh, but the language used is familiar to me. Actually I think if you drill down into it, the precepts are exactly the same. Its just a different route to the same end. You don't have to be easterm or from a "confusion" society to realise this. If you train in traditional budo it tends to be embedded in the pedagogy of the system anyway or at least the elements that are needed to make the martial side of the art functional.... and that is all that is important to me. And believe it or not you CAN do this easily and without having to refer to each other as "grasshopper".

How many do you do well though?

I am not sure there isn't some value in what BillKephart has written. For me, it was quite refreshing, and I can understand what he is saying. I am not Japanese (I am English and arguably just as complex), but I dont think that any of these precepts are difficult for me to swallow. Yes I have trained only in Japanese art with a lot of Japanese instructors so I am biased. Easy to talk about conditioning the body for combat with eastern principles, but perhaps when it comes to conditioning the mind, well thats when it gets a bit freaky to us. So are we only buying half of the product if we are just using the moves and disregarding the mindset?? Maybe not, but perhaps its a bit like taking the game of snooker an saying, lets make this easier for us to achieve the end result and create pool. Which is perhaps the western (American) way... take out anything challenging and make it easier to succeed. My Karate training has a clearly defined purpose. Focused on the Jutsu rather than the do / way (improvement of self), although arguably there is no real difference.

Maybe, but I try to practice Wado Ryu katas in the way, and for the reasons, that I beleive Otsuka meant.

These guys do something similar. Have a look at the bunkai vids here. They have one for Pinan Godan that features a throw instead of a jump. https://www.wadokaratemagic.co.uk/gallery.html For me, it changes the shape and therefore the reason for doing the kata in the first place, but I always enjoy watching / listening to other peoples interpretations. I try to keep an open mind in this respect.

Yeah lovely!!! Isn't this a karate forum? High speed pics of Karate techniques maybe???

Certainly true about bowing, but not to sure if the logic applies to kumite. If you get a chance have a look at the Kuroda sensei vid a linked to a couple of posts back. He is clearly dominating his oponent by staring into his eyes. In fact I would say it was scarey.

Well I wasn't to far off with my "truthfull heart way" (of the empty hand if you add Karate). Reading Mamoru Miwa's bio, it looks like his original Karate study was with Funakoshi before going over to Chidokan. I also noticed that he accompanied Kanazawa on a tour of Syria in the Eighties, so I am guessing his core style (of Karate anyway) was shotokan.(and I think Chidokan is a shoto off shoot as well). As a group, do you do katas and if so are they Shotokan Katas?, or have new katas been created.

Book authors to one side, have you got any thoughts of your own, in terms of explanation as to what this move could be?

That's great then.

Would you be upset if I was?

Trust... I think you have it in a nutshell there.

That and "Don't know Daniel San, never been attacked by tree" As far as my experience goes, when bowing, the Japanese do not look forward either. They keep their head in the same registration as their neck and shoulders as they would when standing looking forward. They bend from the waist - top half as one. I am afraid to say that the - "hands slapping the thighs with elbows bent whilst bowing with you chin forward most" thing - appears to be a very American invention. I could be wrong on that, but certainly a lot of American XMA athletes seem to do this. The way I look at it is that it is not to dis-similar to the western hand shake in terms of offering respect and to an extent "vulnerability" as a result of this action.

Back straight... thats how I like to do it as well.